I want three DC, I already have two, I’m pregnant… and I really don’t think I can keep it.

[ObstinateHeadstrongGirI]

(I’ve NC’d for this but if any of it sounds familiar please don’t go advanced searching and out me. TIA)

It’s a very long one as I feel I need to explain our situation fully. Help me wrap my head around this.

I have terminated one previous accidental pregnancy, 6 years ago, when DH and I were in no way practically or financially prepared to have a baby and I was on very shaky ground in terms of my mental health, having recently endured several long spells of depression which meant I kept losing jobs. Whilst it wasn’t a hugely emotional or difficult decision it wasn’t a pleasant experience, and certainly not one I had ever thought to repeat.

Anyway. Now.

I’m 37, DH is 38. We have two DC- 3 1/2 and 15 months. Both boys. Both took quite a long time TTC, ovulation tracking, lots of sex in FW, post coital legs in the air, pre-seed lubricant and all that nonsense.

DH works FT, 3 days from home, 2 in London. I work PT 9pm-2am five nights a week. I took the job with these hours so that I could earn some money without putting DC in full time childcare, I’ve been in the job 7 months. Household income mid-£60k’s I guess, maybe a little higher. We currently live in an expensive town in an expensive county. PILs recently relocated to live closer to us.

We live in a tiny (715 sq ft) two bedroom flat. Two days a week DH has to work from a desk next to our bed because there’s no space anywhere else. At night I work from the table in the sitting room. Our home is cramped and cluttered and not big enough for the four of us. Original plan was to start setting the ball rolling to move this time next year so we’re settled before DS1 starts school. Not sure where we’ll be moving to yet, it’s very much going to be dictated by our budget, but we’re hoping stay as close to where we are now as we can manage.

DC are with PILs one day a week, nursery two days a week. The other two weekdays I just have to survive, DH gets up with the DC and lets me sleep as long as possible before he starts work, and I have a few hours nap between him finishing work around 5ish and me starting work at 9.

DH and I are (and I can’t stress this enough) permanently exhausted and fairly stressed. Our boys are wonderful but currently at that age where they can’t seem to peacefully co-exist under the same roof, and most of our time is spent trying to stop one of them seriously injuring themselves or doing something that will make the other one scream.

DS2 in particular was such a difficult baby pretty much from the get go. Months and months of hardly getting any sleep, he was never content when he was awake, screamed constantly, we really really went through hell. To add to that hell my DM died suddenly when he was 8 weeks old. I’m not being glib when I say DH and I are a bit traumatised by everything we went through and I really don’t think we could go through that again.

Anyway. DH and I hardly ever have sex these days, we’re like ships passing in the night due to my working hours. We had sex ONCE in February, before my FW and didn’t take preventative measures because we’re fucking stupid, and honestly I thought it’d be ok because of how hard we tried to conceive the DC and how long it took, but what the hell do I know… DH asked me yesterday when my period was due, I checked and it was 3 days late (I hadn’t even realised) so I took a test, and got a BFP. And now I don’t know what the hell to do.

I want three DC. I have always wanted three DC. DH, for his part, had always been ambivalent but said we’ll see depending on finances etc, but after the nightmare we went through with DS2 has been leaning very heavily toward “we’re done”. And at the moment, our situation does not in any practical way lend itself to having a third child.

We cannot fit another baby in this flat. Literally. There isn’t space in our bedroom for a crib. There isn’t space in the DC’s room either- their cot beds are squished side by side and they’re not old enough for a bunk bed.

If there was no other option then we’d have to sell up and move as fast as humanly possible and god knows where we’d end up… certainly not anywhere that’s a handy 10 minute walk into town like we are now, most likely a tiny house in a village in the middle of nowhere.

I don’t know about DH’s car but mine definitely isn’t big enough for three car seats so we’d have to somehow buy a bigger one.

DH would have to leave his job and try and find a higher paid one which means he’d lose the flexibility he has now regarding his hours and office days and could end up having to go into London four or five days a week, so I would lose that bit of support he’s able to provide while he’s WFH.

I just qualify for mat pay at work but only for 6 months so would have to go back pretty quickly.

DS2 would be too young to qualify for funded childcare hours for another year (due date is 2 weeks before his 2nd birthday) and I wouldn’t want/we couldn’t afford to put another baby in nursery especially so young, so I would not have any rest time to myself, I would be even more exhausted than I am now and chances are my mental health would fall off a cliff…

But. But but but.

I so desperately want this baby.

I just don’t see how it can work.

Hey let me just say anything is possible, I'm pregnant with my third DD - so I will have 3 under 4 and we incl my partner are surviving in a studio flat yes a studio flat in central London, it's not a forever situation hopefully but it's doable, just takes a bit of rearranging. We've had a massive clear out and have moved things around to accommodate the new arrival next month.

It can be hard to imagine how to fit in everything and everyone (baby included) but you don't have to decide about your flat now. Concentrate on yourself, your boys and your new baby, and give yourself time to imagine meeting her/him for the first time. It is hard in a small space, at one point I had four under 6. You only need a Moses basket for the first 4-6 months, could your husband sleep on the sofa short-term, so you and baby can rest and feed in peace? Could your boys have your bed and you sleep with baby in their room short-term? It sounds like you would have been planning to move anyway, so give yourself time to look at buying/renting somewhere where you can be creative with the space as your family grows. Do you have to go back after 6 months? Congratulations, and take care

Why do you work 25 hours a week at night when you have three days of daytime childcare? Surely less exhausting just to work those three days during the day?

Not really, because I’d get absolutely no time to myself at all, and if for whatever reason PILs can’t have the DC or they can’t go to nursery (which seems to be every other week at the moment, the amount of bugs and illnesses we’re all getting) then DH or I would have to take time off work at short notice to look after them. This way I have three days where I can catch up on sleep, get some laundry/housework done without having to leave DC unattended, I even occasionally manage to read a chapter of a book or go to a gym class, and I can be home with the DC or pick them up if they’re unwell without it causing any issues at work.

Right now you are caught up in the baby years. With the benefit of hindsight, whilst it is wonderful to have three children it is knackering and it would be just as nice to have two.
I'm sure you would in some way manage if you chose to have three but it sounds not much fun and not great for the other two babies, or perhaps also for your relationship.
An abortion at this stage would be my choice. I don't think it would have been when I was in the thick of my childrearing years - such are hormones - so I appreciate it is hard. If you decide to continue with the pregnancy I am sure you will in some way manage, it will just be a different life

You can do it if your DH gets a higher paying job as you’ve said and you do more of the childcare. If your job means more to you then don’t do that. That’s the choice.

Thats often why it’s easier to progress in career for one person with a family when the other focuses more on the home life. Spouses both Splitting time between family and career doesn’t tend to work out great for finance or stress level.

I would have the baby if you can see a way - the house could be arranged in some way I’m sure & you do have support from dh and pil

I read your post and was thinking definitely terminate as having the baby sounds like it will make you unhappy however you ended by saying you desperately want the baby. Given that, I wonder if a termination would make you even more unhappy than the added stress of another baby. If it is the latter then have the baby as you will make it work. Plus your DS’s will be more independent once the baby arrives.

Have the baby. They are only little for a short time and it will get easier. You so desperately want this baby. Moses basket in the bedroom, changing stuff and small mat of toys kept under the sofa and look to move. Sounds like you might have to compromise on location and live in a village, but if that’s the compromise to have the baby, is that ok? Cheap second hand Smax to fit 3 car seats in the back.

Budget announced today include 30 free childcare hours from age 1. Don't know if that helps.

Obvs such a massive decision and based on more than just childcare.

There's no right or wrong answer.

Did you see they're expected to announce funding for 1 and 2 gear olds for nursery at the budget today?

From what you say, it sounds like not having the baby would make you very unhappy. Realistically this time next year would be fine to move, the baby can have a moses basket in your room for 3 or 4 months.

If you want the baby, you need to keep the baby otherwise you will live with the regrets and the what ifs forever.
Your age means that realistically you might not get another chance.
How does your DP feel if you put the practicalities aside? Does he also want the baby? If so, you need to work back from that point.

1. your current working situation is unsustainable. I say this as someone also in a home with shift pattern working and childcare juggling. The exhaustion is extreme. If it's a permanent job that has mat leave can you take some sick leave during pregnancy and then go off on mat leave at 29 weeks, the earliest possible time?
2. after mat leave you then need to find a job that is during the day time - even if it's full time. If you earn more you can pay for more childcare. Can your DPs help at all? Could you and DH both work four days a week so you still only need three days childcare? Don't forget to prepare for the fact it's actually harder once they start school as after school care is hard to come by.
3. living situation - you can fit in the flat but it won't be easy. Could you move even nearer PIL? Do you own or rent? Could you sell and rent somewhere the right size while looking for a forever home? If you couldn't afford that you would definitely manage until the new baby is 2, have the boys share a room, crib next to your bed. Be brutal and downsize toys and clothes - they don't need as much as they all have these days

don't terminate a "desperately wanted" baby - obviously

Hopefully there will be more child care help in the budget today.

But even if there isn't, you have a good enough household income to raise 3 children, people do it on less

best wishes xx

Ps: budget announcement isn't confirmed - suspect a lot of that offer will only be for people on universal credit. But keep an eye on it just in case.

Apologies if this sounds harsh (i dont mean it to be) but youre making a very difficult situation by working at night (impacting your DHs flexibility to change job, the exhaustion its causing you etc) so you can have some time during the day to do housework and read a book?? This sounds mad!

So many parents that work daytime have to juggle ill children that cant go into nursery, and having to do housework once the kids are in bed. Its not fun, but its also quite short term.

Its as if youve created the most difficult, tiring arrangement you can, so you get some free time suring the day, and the payoff just isnt worth it.

You clearly want this baby, and it sounds like by moving to a daytime job plus using the additional childcare funding that will hopefully be announced in a few hours, youll be able to do it financially and emotionally.

I disagree with the part about single-parent working with SAHM families being more successful. Having both parents working is better for your finances and reduces your stress level.
It is very stressful financially and mentally for someone who has to work full-time and support the whole family. Strained finance increases the stress level.
The younger execs in tech and finance often have working spouses. Their risk tolerance is higher, allowing them to take on roles with higher rewards and lower job security.

Tax-wise, two people earning £40k each get more net than one earning £80k.

hbswk.hbs.edu/item/kids-of-working-moms-grow-into-happy-adults

news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/newsplus/having-a-working-mother-is-good-for-you/

I agree there’s no point in having three days childcare where you aren’t at work and then exhausting yourself to work at night. Just do what the rest of us do and work while they’re in childcare and juggle the sick days.

I was in a similar position a while ago. I terminated the pregnancy and then my world came crashing down. Suddenly all the very good practical and financial reasons to terminate didn't seem so important. I was devastated to terminate a much wanted baby whilst trying to provide a better quality of life to my two other children.
Think carefully, you are in a very difficult position. The one thing I wish I did was access the counselling sessions that the abortion providers can give. Maybe seek support before you make your decision. Good luck

Absolutely bizarre that someone has organised 3 days of childcare a week to use it devotedly to catch up with life admin and chill or bugs here and there - to then work nights and complain of exhaustion.

meanwhile millions of regular folk - who also get bugs and need to wash their pants and socks - erm - use childcare, to, work, during childcare hours.

Op your little ones may be elidgable for childcare. It's in the news that 1 and 2 year olds will get 30 hours.

@UnicornRidge

People who are working mothers will be able to pull up articles “proving” how wonderful two parent full time working families are and people who are SAHM can pull up articles “proving” how wonderful that is. Point is it proves nothing. We both know full well those articles and studies are written by and done by people who already support a certain point of view.

I disagree that both parents working full time with kids (especially young) is less stressful. There’s the constant arrangement of schedules, kids being raised 5 days a week in daycare and just the overall difficulty of both trying to fill the same role while having no one really focusing on home and children.

Younger execs also often have non working spouses - especially after kids. I’m betting one type of marriage tends to stay together more and it ain’t the working parents. It’s hard to both be trying to do it all. So much easier with split responsibilities.

But anyway, OP herself is stating that it’s her low paying job which is stopping her husband looking for higher payed work. So in this case it is definitely holding back his possible earning potential.

Besides, what good is more and more money if no one’s ever actually home with the family and you both just rush in to jam in some “quality” time after work and nursery pick up?

I feel sorry for the kids.

No advice except for the sleeping situation: you can go in bunk beds yourself and then put a cot next to your bed.

I couldn't bring myself to abort a wanted baby. I think you would always regret it. It's a very long term solution to your short term problems.

I agree with PPs I think you're making life hard for everyone with your working arrangements. You have free childcare from the PIL and some nursery during the day- you could be working the same hours as your DH and have quality time as a family in the morning and evenings instead of being stressed and doing a rushed handover.

It's also stopping your DH from progressing at work.

You might have to do housework and read a book in the evening like other working families do.

Does DH pull his weight with housework?

I agree with PP who are saying that maybe your working pattern needs a rethink. 9pm-2am does not sound sustainable when you have such young children. There is a reason why it isn't what most young families choose to do. I know you get time for the gym etc. but I just think it might help if you reflect on whether this really works for you - you might just have to give up some of that 'me time' if you want three children.

But nothing is impossible. I do think it's important that your DH is on board, though. It is going to be a rough ride - that's just a fact as you don't have an ideal set up - so you will need his support and for him to not be secretly resenting the situation. I would want his 100% enthusiasm because you've been through so much already and have a hard time ahead if you go through with this.

It also depends how you view termination I guess - I view it that at such an early stage it is not really a baby but just a potential of a baby, if that makes sense, so might not be so attached until the 3 month point. But if you really view it as your baby already then it will be very hard for you to go through with a termination. You need to think about your mental health and have a very honest talk with your husband. You don't want to have regrets for the rest of your life.

Good luck and I really hope it will work out for you whatever you decide.