I want three DC, I already have two, I’m pregnant… and I really don’t think I can keep it.

[ObstinateHeadstrongGirI]

(I’ve NC’d for this but if any of it sounds familiar please don’t go advanced searching and out me. TIA)

It’s a very long one as I feel I need to explain our situation fully. Help me wrap my head around this.

I have terminated one previous accidental pregnancy, 6 years ago, when DH and I were in no way practically or financially prepared to have a baby and I was on very shaky ground in terms of my mental health, having recently endured several long spells of depression which meant I kept losing jobs. Whilst it wasn’t a hugely emotional or difficult decision it wasn’t a pleasant experience, and certainly not one I had ever thought to repeat.

Anyway. Now.

I’m 37, DH is 38. We have two DC- 3 1/2 and 15 months. Both boys. Both took quite a long time TTC, ovulation tracking, lots of sex in FW, post coital legs in the air, pre-seed lubricant and all that nonsense.

DH works FT, 3 days from home, 2 in London. I work PT 9pm-2am five nights a week. I took the job with these hours so that I could earn some money without putting DC in full time childcare, I’ve been in the job 7 months. Household income mid-£60k’s I guess, maybe a little higher. We currently live in an expensive town in an expensive county. PILs recently relocated to live closer to us.

We live in a tiny (715 sq ft) two bedroom flat. Two days a week DH has to work from a desk next to our bed because there’s no space anywhere else. At night I work from the table in the sitting room. Our home is cramped and cluttered and not big enough for the four of us. Original plan was to start setting the ball rolling to move this time next year so we’re settled before DS1 starts school. Not sure where we’ll be moving to yet, it’s very much going to be dictated by our budget, but we’re hoping stay as close to where we are now as we can manage.

DC are with PILs one day a week, nursery two days a week. The other two weekdays I just have to survive, DH gets up with the DC and lets me sleep as long as possible before he starts work, and I have a few hours nap between him finishing work around 5ish and me starting work at 9.

DH and I are (and I can’t stress this enough) permanently exhausted and fairly stressed. Our boys are wonderful but currently at that age where they can’t seem to peacefully co-exist under the same roof, and most of our time is spent trying to stop one of them seriously injuring themselves or doing something that will make the other one scream.

DS2 in particular was such a difficult baby pretty much from the get go. Months and months of hardly getting any sleep, he was never content when he was awake, screamed constantly, we really really went through hell. To add to that hell my DM died suddenly when he was 8 weeks old. I’m not being glib when I say DH and I are a bit traumatised by everything we went through and I really don’t think we could go through that again.

Anyway. DH and I hardly ever have sex these days, we’re like ships passing in the night due to my working hours. We had sex ONCE in February, before my FW and didn’t take preventative measures because we’re fucking stupid, and honestly I thought it’d be ok because of how hard we tried to conceive the DC and how long it took, but what the hell do I know… DH asked me yesterday when my period was due, I checked and it was 3 days late (I hadn’t even realised) so I took a test, and got a BFP. And now I don’t know what the hell to do.

I want three DC. I have always wanted three DC. DH, for his part, had always been ambivalent but said we’ll see depending on finances etc, but after the nightmare we went through with DS2 has been leaning very heavily toward “we’re done”. And at the moment, our situation does not in any practical way lend itself to having a third child.

We cannot fit another baby in this flat. Literally. There isn’t space in our bedroom for a crib. There isn’t space in the DC’s room either- their cot beds are squished side by side and they’re not old enough for a bunk bed.

If there was no other option then we’d have to sell up and move as fast as humanly possible and god knows where we’d end up… certainly not anywhere that’s a handy 10 minute walk into town like we are now, most likely a tiny house in a village in the middle of nowhere.

I don’t know about DH’s car but mine definitely isn’t big enough for three car seats so we’d have to somehow buy a bigger one.

DH would have to leave his job and try and find a higher paid one which means he’d lose the flexibility he has now regarding his hours and office days and could end up having to go into London four or five days a week, so I would lose that bit of support he’s able to provide while he’s WFH.

I just qualify for mat pay at work but only for 6 months so would have to go back pretty quickly.

DS2 would be too young to qualify for funded childcare hours for another year (due date is 2 weeks before his 2nd birthday) and I wouldn’t want/we couldn’t afford to put another baby in nursery especially so young, so I would not have any rest time to myself, I would be even more exhausted than I am now and chances are my mental health would fall off a cliff…

But. But but but.

I so desperately want this baby.

I just don’t see how it can work.

It’s hard. I had a misery moment when DS woke at 4 AGAIN this morning and I regretted no2 (who is still in utero!)

I think people berating you about your work is pointless if you’re going to keep the baby - maternity pay will be needed. In a few months by all means have a rethink.

Any of us could come up with a hundred reasons why not to have a baby but the lines ‘I really want this baby’ are the really important ones.

I was in a similar situation to you, but both working full time, no family help so full time nursery (over £2k a month 15 years ago).

i love dc3 to bits but would terminate if had choices again. He’s been a v high baby/child but not only have our finances suffered hugely as costs had gone up so much more in that time (plus tax credits were withdrawn) but doing things is much more costly. Cars/hotels/holidays plus having family help. Mine never did and a big reason is that the idea of looking after 3 felt much harder to then than 2 when they could divide and conquer.

i thought love would be enough and we’d manage, turns out that’s not true and we ended up broke for years, and have only now really got our heads above water since the kids were teens.

The stress of having no money impacted my mental health and our relationship in a big way. Years of only being able to have one week holidays a year as all our leave has to go onto covering sick dcs/inset days etc.

we both were ‘traumatised’ during this time, the horrible hunched shoulder any time anything unexpected happened that needed funds.

If you feel you could find somewhere bigger to live whilst having decent finances and a full time job, fine. In your current situation, no. Sorry.

You can make this work if you want to. Your 3 days of them in childcare while you do jobs / read a book are a luxury no mums I know have had. I think to make it work you would have to work in the day instead and be less tired once baby is here but that's the choice you have to make.

The question is not if you want this baby but if you want another child.

Of course you really want a baby but how about when they’re big and you have to drive them to places? Will you be able to support the 3 of them with their talents and needs?

You mention your mental health, so you need to put in the equation how are you going to juggle everything and how the difficulties may affect you. And make sure you can afford everything so you don’t fall into poverty.

Good luck

Given your ages and circumstances then I would stick at 2. You may find that one of them is ND that will be a bigger commitment on time and resources. It's so early in the pg that personally I'd terminate.

Maybe in a year, if things are different and you both want another then you could try.

It sounds to me like you know that termination is the sensible thing to do.
But the caveat to that is you have to do it and no one can make that choice but you.

Have the baby, move to a cheaper area, everything will fall into place. I had two DS under two, it was hard work, most mums know you don’t get time to yourself, but they are only babies for a short time and life gets easier as they grow. You want the baby, have the baby.

By the time your DC3 is born guessing you're kids will be 4 and 2 (very nearly?) deffo okay for bunk beds! 4YO on top and 2 year old on bottom with a bed guard. My DD is 2 (just) and in a single bed with no bed guard and we've had no probs. Go for bunk beds it'll save so much space.

I don't know how I would cope with 3! So much stress.

I wanted three all of my life. It was my dream. We stuck with 2. In the early days I regretted it but now I can see it was right for our quality of life and using any money we have left on our two and letting them di the clubs they want.

I honestly couldn't think of anything worse than another baby in your situation - two young children, too small flat, too small car, not enough earnings, already working opposite day/nights to save money. BUT, my opinion is irrelevant if you want another baby then you'll make it work somehow. Good luck.

Five of you in a studio flat? Wow.

We struggled through the early years. 4 dc, now aged 14, 12, 10 and 10. Surprise twin pregnancy made our living conditions similar to yours. 4 dc in a very small mid terrace.

But, 10 years on, after 5 years of struggling and 5 of things being difficult but slightly easier as they got older, we're in a pretty good place. I'm now about to embark on a career change which puts me back at the earning potential I would have been on had I stayed employed. After just 3 years back in the workplace in a low paid term time role.

So, if you want this child, you have to look at whether the short term pain of 3 young children is doable, consider your plan for when they get to preschool/school age and you can increase your earning potential - school shouldn't be free childcare but the reality for many is that it is. It made the difference for us. The odd day for sickness has been covered generally by dh who has more flexibility due to his shift pattern than I do currently.

And importantly, communicate with dh. He's ambivalent you say about baby 3. But it's something that could make or break a relationship if not thoroughly discussed and considered.

I'm a great believer in everythjng happens for a reason. Our twin babies made life incredibly difficult for a few years, with the older 2 as well, but it forced me to be a sahm for a few years, which is what both dh and I had always wanted. Going back to work was a challenge but has given me skills to take on a role I never would have gone for before. Fate!

If you really want 3 children and you are 37, it would be better to keep the baby. It’s not easy and you have significant practical changes to make. However you would need to change where you live and probably the job you do soon anyway so it’s about doing it a bit earlier. Your current set up isn’t workable long term anyway.
So a suitable place to live with more space is priority, hopefully still close to PILs whose support you still need, and with suitable nursery/primary school options.
I agree with other posters that working 9pm till 2 am is a very difficult work arrangement and think you should stop this at the earliest opportunity.
The loss of your DM suddenly while DC2 is a baby must have been awful, I’m so sorry for your loss.
I hope you can get DH support in this and move forward.
After baby 3, DH could have a vasectomy possibly!

Obviously this is entirely a personal choice but I would focus on the existing children rather than some strange want to have 'more'.

As they get older, that's not a great quality of life for them living in a tiny flat, parents working themselves to death to make it financially. I mean there is zero guarantee your DH will simply 'earn more' and life is getting increasingly expensive as it is.

The only way I see this working is you move somewhere cheaper, your husband gets a better paying job and focuses on bringing home the cash. He may end up doing long commutes.

Meanwhile you give up working for now to deal with all childcare, and all domestic issues.

You will have no time for yourself for a few years, there will probably be no spare cash at all for those years. You may feel isolated if you move somewhere new with no support. You may end up living somewhere which ticks boxes but really wouldn't be your choice. This could impact your mental health. I've done this, for years, it was tough. I resented that my husband got to go to work, he felt under pressure to stay in a role he didn't enjoy but which paid more.

This is a significant change to fulfill your dream to have this baby, although you may decide its what you want. I'm amazed your husband is ambivalent, I think you need a very honest conversation.

I am in almost identical situation so will try not to be bias. (I found out I was pregnant yesterday, contraception failure - I already have 3 children - I've decided on a termination as we just can't afford another and don't have the space or time for another or the ability to move house for the next few years. I too have had a termination before. But I always knew this would be the case if this happened though. Twins also run in the family and my friend ended up with unexpected twins as her third and fourth, so it makes me nervous.)

It was only after our third was born that our first and second were diagnosed with additional needs. Our third seems to have a difficult immune system and there have been obstacles. Life can be hard but it can also be very wonderful. We live on an income of about £35k so it can be done but we do have a fairly small mortgage of £750.

If you really want this baby you need to think about it for longer and perhaps contact bpas and ask for their counselling. People are right that the things you're worried about often work themselves out, but I know for a fact that they wouldn't for us. We couldn't afford a bigger house or car at this time in our lives. We dont have more time to stretch across our children, I already feel as if they don't have enough time from us. Everyone has different circumstances and only you will know what will work for you.

Personally in an ideal world I would love another baby, so honestly I try not to think about it, which was how I dealt with it last time. If I do think about it then I tell myself it's like taking the morning after pill. Good luck making your decision.

This.

I think your work situation is set up almost as if you are trying to live as if you don't have children and it's unsustainable. Yes, you'll have to take time off if they are sick. Yes you will have no time to yourself for a few years. No you will not read a book for a while. This is the reality of having children. Having three days off for me time whilst working at night seems utterly mad and setting yourself up for failure. Amazed your dp is on board with this or does he like coming home.to a tidy house or something?

You will qualify for maternity pay at this job so talk of changing altogether is probably not worth it.
How fixed are the shifts if you work from home? Could you do say 7 to midnight (or 7.30 to 12.30)? Be really strict about the bedtime routine. Start giving them tea early etc so everything moves forward.
Then you could get pretty much a full night's sleep.

The flat is difficult. How set is it that certain rooms have to be certain things? I.e is it a kitchen living room or could you swap the living room to become a big bedroom and have a tiny snug TV room? Get a comfy chair in the bigger boys room so you can sit comfortably while they play.

It's never going to be ideal and deciding not to go through with it would be a completely reasonable decision.

There is no right or wrong answer.

If I were you I’d think about whether you really do want another baby, or whether it’s an auto-reaction from the past combined with exhaustion.

If you do, then discuss with your partner, you could make it work but realistically it sounds like it involves him getting a better paid job which will leave you much more responsible for childcare. Are you ok with that? If he really can’t get on board what are the implications for your relationship?

After that you have to consider the kids you have. Is another baby in their interests short or long term?

Your first duty is to yourself and the family you have. The chances are it will be shitty in the short term and good in the long term.. but managing it in the short term could have long term implications for your mental health, your working patterns as a couple, and possibly your relationship.

Generally I am in favour of going with your gut, but a decision like this has so many layers of implications I think you have to work it through between you.

If you really want the baby, and you would regret a termination- and it sounds like you would - you’ll make it work. We were in a similar situation and went ahead, 12 years later we still remember how skint we were but we managed, we also remember the happiness of that time and the lovely moments in the midst of our tiredness and lack of money. There’s always a way to make these situations work. Good luck xx

You've given lots of well thought-out practical reasons why having a third baby would not be a good idea.

You've given no explanation at all as to why you do want a third child. You just do, because you "always have"? Can you explain any more? Is it that you'd like one more roll of the dice to have a girl? Did you have 2 siblings yourself and like that dynamic? It's kind of an odd thing to want for no particular reason, especially when you have two healthy kids already.

Turning to your job, does your employer offer any daytime shifts of the same work? Is this a career or just a grunt job to pay the bills? Do you want a career? You write well, you are clearly an intelligent woman.

And what are the triggers for your mental health issues? Being brutally honest, it is not fair on any child to risk them having a mentally unwell parent if you can take steps to mitigate that risk.

How would you feel tomorrow if this pregnancy didn't stick? Relieved, or keen to try again?

I think you are being really quite naive

There is no right or wrong answer. But really wanting a baby is not the be all and end all. There are huge implications for the OPs mental health, her relationship, and her children’s well being. It can be made to work of course, but there will be trade offs.

Not sure if this has been mentioned - but with regard to the car; one adult can go in the back in the middle and one child in the front if needed. It's not necessarily ideal, but it can work this way for the short term.

Best of luck with your thoughts over this and whatever you ultimately decide. X