I don’t know how to get past how angry I am with ds

[MumOfFury]

He’s 10 and yesterday did something outrageously stupid which is likely to cost me several hundred pounds (all the savings I have for Christmas) and was also incredibly dangerous, could have killed him and his brother and could have cost thousands and thousands to fix. The owner of the damaged item is trying to get quotes to get it repaired today and is hoping it may be at least partly covered by insurance.

I am so, so angry with him though and I can’t see that fading anytime soon. He’s sorry that I’m cross with him but keeps trying to justify what he did and doesn’t seem to particularly think he did anything wrong because it was an accident (it was stupidity and he could hear me shouting to him to stop before I managed to get to him to physically stop him).

I don’t know what to do. I’ve take. His screens away but he’s perfectly happy sat in his room reading books. I’m tempted to send him to stay with my mum for a few days. He wouldn’t consider it a punishment but I’m so angry with him I’m frightened I’m going to say something awful to him.

Please be gentle on me. I’m sobbing writing this I don’t know what I’ve done wrong to end up with a kid who genuinely sees nothing wrong with this type of behaviour and seems to have no concern about the huge cutbacks we’ll have to make if I need to pay for the damage he’s caused.

Op

i really really feel for you. It will be ok.

i would negotiate though. Meet them half way.cancel the card you gave at time of booking so they can’t just take it off there

Op said that she was so angry she was co sidering sending him away because she was worried she would say something awful to him. Has also confiscated things and seems to feel he needs to be further punished to help him see how serious it was. He is unlikely to understand how serious it could have been at 10 years old so I was suggesting giving him a break, perhaps poorly worded. I don't think op is a monster, it's just an ott reaction to something a child didn't intend to do. If he'd been stealing or lying I could understand a bit more anger. Another poster has suggested that actually it's the fear of what could of happened causing this excessive anger which makes sense.

Can you take a photo of him without him pulling a face ?

@goldfinchonthelawn he didn’t put the dressing gown on the clothes horse. He moved the protective grate thing and which the clothes horse was in front of and put it on top of the wood burner. We have one at home, he knows fully well to never even think about touching it. This was different from the one at home too as it was one of those that has a stove bit on top that you can boil a kettle on.

I nodded along op as very similar to my son until I read this…

That’s when he decided to start bashing it. I was right outside yelling at him to stop but he’d locked the door so I couldn’t get in to stop him.

that is not right at all. Not stupidity but actually ignoring his mothers shouts

I really don't think any of this sounds malicious but of a kid who was a freaking idiot, possibly because he's in a strange place, over-stimulated and over-tired.

We've just been 'glamping' too and my 4.5 YO who'e been potty trained since just turned 2 randomly pee'd all over the rug in our tent 🤦‍♀️ She was exhausted after a long day out and a bit dazed after falling asleep in the car. I was fuming at her but tried to just focus on a natural consequence which for us was that she cleaned the rug and herself immediately and that we go back to making her do regular toilet stops, no arguments.

A natural consequence for your ds is surely that they pay back whatever

I get the dressing gown thing, by that time he may have been not thinking but not the initial destruction.

I’m sorry I’m going against the grain here. A 10 year old does not keep bashing a door until he breaks it down when he knows his mother is on the other side of the door to help him.

He doesn’t genuinely see nothing wrong with that or show no remorse afterwards.

If he was in a blind panic when it was happening he would be distressed afterwards, not lying on his bed reading a book.

I think your right to feel upset, let down and angry and it will be hard to put it in perspective. What is his behaviour usually like?

Well I completely disagree. Giving kids a hug and letting them know their actions don't matter because it was an accident is how you get adults who show no respect for other people's belongings and who won't take responsibility for any action that might mean they have to reimburse someone.

He's not a toddler. He's ten. I have a ten year old. He does daft shit all the time, but he would be remorseful if he broke something by accident. And now OP has clarified some points, I would say these are less accidents and more complete thoughtlessness.

Just fully read the thread and realised it was a ‘but I CAN fix it’ situation where I was about to say ‘maybe in his head he can justify whatever happened.’ It’s so hard op, and it was a mess and I’m so sorry you have to deal with it. It could have been so so much worse but that doesn’t help you but an only slightly better way to look at it was that reading your op I thought your son had done something criminally that wrong, eg stealing a car or the like. I know it doesn’t help and hope you all come out of it all not too scathed. Ps I don’t think you should go to your mum’s

Owners have to have insurance for accidental damage by guests.

No they don't. It's just an option on a lot of holiday let insurance.

Assuming that the owner does have the extension, it'll be down to how the insurer views the damage. Accident, negligence by guests or deliberate. If they deem it an accident they will probably pay out. Insurers however are famous for wriggling out of claims as we all know full well.

Oh gosh, that sounds frustrating and upsetting. A lot of good advice here... the main message is to be careful with things, especially other people's things.

My oldest is lovely but can be so careless and we've had to have these conversations a few times - they have broken THREE laptops now (I only saw them break one, but the others were clearly their fault though they denied it); obviously they need one for school so we've left it at they can only use the very old, knackered laptop that doesn't charge properly - their younger brother will be getting a new one when he starts secondary school in a few weeks as he's proven much more trustworthy with them. Youngest has ADHD and we think maybe oldest does as well as it fits more the female profile - they do well at school and are generally organised but can be weirdly bad at taking care of stuff even though otherwise very responsible, and very bad at tidying up after themselves and remembering to bathe.

I can understand why your angry, but give it time, it only happened yesterday.

Just a little story of the time my 10 year old dad did something very silly, he’d been sent to get the families weekly food rations from the shop, all in one bag which contained eggs, butter, flour and bacon. He walked home singing a song and for some unfathomable reason decided to swing the bag against a wall in time with the song. When he got home all the food was mushed together. My Grandma smacked him because she was so angry, the first and last time she ever hit him, but years later used to laugh about the mangled bag of food.

You’re entitled to be angry but you will forgive him one day.

@MumOfFury have you asked him
What the hell he was thinking because he knows never to touch the fire at home? I'd be tempted to remove his books too and ask him to write a letter about why he shouldn't have done what he did.

I'd also send him to your mums so you get a break and ask her to explain to him what he did was wrong and that you needed a break because you're angry with him

I'm so sorry, but none of it was intentional. These things happen. It sounds like a holiday with my mother who's in her 80s and who always manages to break something: I remember having to pay £600plus for glassware when she backed into a display in Murano. Another time in Turkey she asked to see an expensive Iznik vase and when the owner bought it down she grabbed at it and then it went straight through her fingers... She's always dropping wine glasses in restaurants. Then was the time she managed to drop a TV remote down a hotel toilet!!! Don't ask me how or why as to this day I still don't know.

These things happen. They are just things.

You'd be more upset if something had happened to your boy.

He was panicking. He couldn't turn off the shower, he couldn't get the door open, he was naked in a space where other people were.

None of this is malicious.

People throw tea towels on top of pans of burning oil and burn their house down because they panic.

I don't know what kind of remorse he should be showing. He's apologised, he's accepted his punishment without a murmur. But that's not enough.

It sounds like he panicked. I would expect them to be able to claim on insurance and maybe you pay the excess. I’m sorry you’re so upset, sending you a hug

Sorry posted too soon...

A natural consequence for your ds is surely that they pay back whatever the cost of damage be that through pocket money or household jobs. I'd also emphasise how awful this must have made the campsite owner feel and encourage him to write an apology and send a small gift.

I totally get that you're pissed. Believe me most parents would be. However, try and make this about how you can help him grow and not repeat these mistakes rather than how angry you are. Good luck xx

Giving kids a hug and letting them know their actions don't matter because it was an accident is how you get adults who show no respect for other people's belongings and who won't take responsibility for any action that might mean they have to reimburse someone

No. The opposite. Punishing children with unreasonable anger for mistakes leads to them lying about what they have done, because they're too afraid of the unreasonable consequences to tell the truth. They have to know that there are consequences for thoughtless behaviour which damages other people's possessions, but they should never be afraid to own up and to try to put things right.

It's fine to be cross and to explain why. It's fine to impose a natural consequence. But it isn't fine to be so angry that you feel you can't be around your child at all.

Is he sorry? Does he realise how dangerous it was? He might be punishing himself enough as it is. Does he regularly do things like this on purpose or does he just not think?
It'll be one of those things in the VERY distant future where you'll laugh about that time that ds nearly set fire to the yurt story.
Just be grateful you're all OK. Don't be too hard on him he's only 10.

The door bashing is stupid - but he is only 10 (plenty adults have done similar). The rest of it does sound like just accidents. I can easily see why you might grab a dressing down to clean up mess if panicking, and not think about putting something a bit close to a fire when so much else was going on.

I think a few days at your mums might be good for him, just to give you a break as you are obviously under a lot of financial pressure.

I think some loss of privileges to contribute to covering the damage is appropriate (not sure what his pocket money situation is so don’t know what that could be.)

But overall while I can see it’s caused a hideous amount of stress for you, there’s no huge thing he needs punishing for. But do have a firm talk with him about not forcing things.

I will forgive him, of course. Just right now he is remarkably unbothered and whenever I try to talk to him about it he just says “it was an accident!”. I haven’t shouted at him him beyond originally shouting at him to unlock the door and then shouting at both him and his brother to get out of the tent when I saw it was full of smoke. It’s just been me talking to him although he did see me cry after I’d spoken to the owner because I realised it will quite possibly wipe out my savings and also through sheer embarrassment that he just sat there reading a book and didn’t apologise to her or anything.

It’s all very well saying get him to pay you back but I can’t - I can’t afford to pay him for cleaning the car or whatever. I’ve tried so hard to save for Christmas and for the bloody glamping break and they’ll still get all their presents, they’ll just come from their dad instead and he’ll make it very, very clear that they’re not from me. I’m so tired of trying so hard to make things nice for them and it all just being broken.

@MumOfFury I think it would be the not being bothered that would upset me more than his actual actions. I'd send him to your mums to give yourself a break. 10 year olds can be hard work. I'm sorry

He damaged an item at a place we were staying - he thought the door was on a hinge, it was on a rail so didn’t open when he pushed it. He bashed it until it fell off the rail, breaking the door and the rails (both of which were bespoke) in the process. He tried to clean up mess with the very expensive dressing gown the place had provided and which is told him to be very careful with if he insisted on wearing it.

Crikey @MumOfFury my sympathies with your fury!

None of what he did was an "accident." At 10, he's old enough to understand he needs to do what he's told. However, children of that age are usually only just learning about consequences, and it looks as though he has very poor control or thinking processes around risk.

You told him - I assume clearly - not to do a whole lot of things that he then did. It sounds like he panicked & lashed out violently & without any kind of control - even the limited amount of physical control one might expect a 10 year old to have.

The problem is that the kind of punishment you might give which is proportionate to the consequences - loss of scarce money etc etc - is probably disproportionate to his age & understanding.

But is there a way you can show him how much he has cost you, and outline what you, as a family, will NOT be able to do now?

but they should never be afraid to own up and to try to put things right

But he isn't trying to put things right. His argument is that he didn't mean for this to happen so it's not really a problem, when it very much is.

OP would be very unreasonable to punish him for doing it deliberately, like a vandal, but she's NOT unreasonable for being pissed off with his thoughtlessness and continuing lack of remorse. It doesn't matter that the consequences were unintended.

More broadly, I guess it's the difference between murder and manslaughter. I'm obviously not saying that OP's son is or would ever be a killer, but that, while the legal system will take intentions into account, you can't just get away with shit because you hadn't planned it.

I really feel for you. It was an accident and these things happen but it was also thoughtless and the potential cost for 5 minutes of thoughtless behaviour is substantial and puts you under a lot of pressure and stress. It may be a good idea to send him to grandparents while you decompress a bit. A good nights sleep won’t fix it but will help get your mind right. It’s happened now so it’s just how best to deal with it.