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HV referred me to social services.

111 replies

HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 19:39

Hi everyone, il try and put this as brief as possible, I am a traveller, I married quite young and had a daughter but we divorced in Ireland when I was 22, I moved to UK and ended up remarrying (another traveller), a year and a half ago our relationship broke down and we separated for 4 months, within that 4 months we had a huge argument and he came to where I lived and broke the door and I called police, completely unacceptable I totally understand and very obviously a referral was done, social services phoned me, asked to call out, which they did and I was under assessment for 35 days but case was closed and never heard anything ever again, social worker was really lovely and had no concerns, fast forward 17 months, myself and my husband are back together a year, I am almost 8 months pregnant with baby number 3, my husband is brilliant, really hard worker and fantastic dad to both girls, bit lazy at home at times but I think most men are guilty of that lol, so what happened 17 months ago is well and truly forgotten, he broke my door handle with a kick and we said some horrible words and that was literally it, fast forward 17 months we are living in a new area in the UK (work reasons and better family support), HV called out almost two weeks ago, asked me loads of irrelevant questions, asked about my first husband and where he was, why my marriage ended, how did my family take it etc, also asked why I lived within the area I did and not on the travellers site, she also said “when you decide to go in to have this baby who is going to take your other two kids”, she was writing in a notebook as I was speaking, she asked a lot of questions about my 8 year old, also how I pay my rent, wanted to know my financial situation, she asked how many bedrooms were in my apartment and I told her only 1, that I was looking for somewhere bigger when new baby comes along, she looked absolutely disgusted and told me there isn’t enough space, my apartment is pretty big however it is only one bedroom, my two girls share a room and myself and my husband use a pull out sofa in the living room, we have a big utility room for our clothes and bits, she kept asking if I ever had social services involved or ever involved I said I had a referral over a year and a half ago and it was closed and I didn’t hear anymore, she told me she was going to contact social services to tie up and loose ends and make sure it was the truth, before she got up to leave she said to me and I quote “ok, well I’m going to go back to the office and contact childrens services as I told you, because you don’t want them calling out when you have your new baby, they have the power to remove children at the end of the day”, so I asked her what were her grounds for contacting them and why would they be calling out?? She said to me “oh they may not, but probably will”, I’ve no idea why they would have to call out to see me, there is no violence or cross words in my home, it’s spotless, my daughter is in school and both kids do lots of activities, my daughter plays with mostly settled children and my reason for being in an apartment was to raise my kids in a settled environment as I have lived on sites and travelling etc and I don’t like it, I try to do my best around my kids always, I am qualified to do lashes and I work from home about 2-3 days a week, she told me I wasn’t in a position to do that as it’s already too cramped here, anyways low and behold I got a phone call yesterday and it was a social worker, she received a referral from my health visitor stating that she had concerns about my relationship and a few other things, I had to explain everything on the phone and she luckily enough phoned back a few hours later to say she won’t be in touch again that she’s checked everything and has no concerns (thank god) my questions are, should I complain about the health visitor? I feel the questions were completely out of her dept, I felt interrogated, I felt so scared when she left thinking about social services arriving when new baby is here, for no reason, having to explain things, I just felt her questions were too much, she even asked what were sleeping arrangements if I stayed in a trailer, I’ve never been asked that by any health visitor before, I have a list of most of the things she asked me I haven’t put them all here, am I wrong? I’m seriously doubting myself, I don’t even know the first step to making a complaint and I don’t want to play the discrimination card because I am from travelling community, I know alot of others play on that. Just need advice really, thanks mums

OP posts:
Mommabear20 · 29/07/2022 19:49

What I would keep in mind, is that they see so many children in bad situations and are sometimes too late to help, so they can sometimes preemptively act. I think that is the case here. There is history, so she's airing on the side of caution. However, if you've been felt with negative feelings about HVs, I'd definitely contact your local office and say something along the lines of 'following my recent visit, a few of the questions were delivered in a less than respectful manner and I didn't feel comfortable with the way things were conducted'. I don't know if I'd complain but I wasn't there so don't know exactly how it happened, that's your call based on how you feel. I hope things continue to go well for you and congratulations on your baby!

CountessOfSponheim · 29/07/2022 19:56

If I were you I would probably stop short of a formal complaint (questions of exactly what she said and how she said it are going to boil down to your word against hers and the whole process would cause you additional stress) but I would officially ask the HV service to have a different HV assigned to you (technically seeing a HV at all is voluntary, but under the circumstances you've described I can see them escalating the situation if you try to cut off contact entirely) because your relationship with this one has irretrievably broken down.

Flopisfatteningbingforchristmas · 29/07/2022 19:59

A huge amount of the work of HV is child protection. I do think those questions were within her remit but it’s understandable if you don’t want to speak to her again. You can decline HV support or ask for another HV.

btw I think you are massively down playing the incident with the police and I can understand why she may have concerns.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

LIZS · 29/07/2022 20:01

They are first and foremost concerned for the welfare of the children. Five in a one bed, especially if you wfh (who minds the dc then?) is an issue. Does your 8yo attend school? You cannot complain about a hv doing their job?!

orbitalcrisis · 29/07/2022 20:03

The fact that she asked why you don't live on a traveller's site is totally inappropriate and an indication that this was racially motivated. I'd complain.

Antigonesaunt · 29/07/2022 20:04

I know you said you don't want to play the discrimination card, but it does sound like you were being discriminated against, sorry.

HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 20:06

Thank you for the advice, it’s stressing me out no end, I just don’t want to have a run in with her again, but completely understand she may have been acting in caution, I just don’t know what her reasoning was for so many other irrelevant questions, I honestly think it was down right nosiness!

OP posts:
Sparklybutold · 29/07/2022 20:09

@HoneyNan

In your shoes I would definitely be feeding back what was asked and how this made you feel. I feel from what you've said there was a lot of judgement owing to your traveller connections. I am so sorry that you experienced this. I wish you all the luck in finding a new home for you and your family 🌸

xraydelta · 29/07/2022 20:11

So sorry you had this experience. My opinion is you were discriminated against and the HV had clearly very biased opinions!

And as for the previous replies, please don't even answer them. How your children are educated is not the point 🤷🏻‍♀️🙈!

Health visitors are an opt in service. Feel free to decline any future involvement. If you want to have their input, please have it on your terms and not theirs.

I wish you all the best x

HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 20:11

LIZS · 29/07/2022 20:01

They are first and foremost concerned for the welfare of the children. Five in a one bed, especially if you wfh (who minds the dc then?) is an issue. Does your 8yo attend school? You cannot complain about a hv doing their job?!

My aunt lives 5 minutes away, my two girls share a big room, and myself and my husband sleep on a pull out sofa in our living room, My landlord has a 3 bedroom that isn’t available until November so unfortunately it is our circumstances until then, HV was well aware all of my family live close by as it was one of the first questions she asked, also, not so much her referral but her questions she asked me, I don’t think it’s her job to ask me how my first marriage ended and how did my family react?

OP posts:
HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 20:12

LIZS · 29/07/2022 20:01

They are first and foremost concerned for the welfare of the children. Five in a one bed, especially if you wfh (who minds the dc then?) is an issue. Does your 8yo attend school? You cannot complain about a hv doing their job?!

Obviously my 8 yo attends school, if you read my thread properly you would see that, why would she not attend school? I don’t understand. Your reply is just rude!

OP posts:
bellac11 · 29/07/2022 20:13

The issue will be about your relationship and the previous DV.

During any assessment information will be gathered to get a full picture of your functioning, routines, parenting, social and family network. So its not racist or discriminatory to ask questions about your living choices

Many families are overcrowded but we also know that the more overcrowded a family is the more the risk of interfamilial sexual abuse, 5 children in one bed is an awful lot.

All of these factors put together mean that its right that there is an assessment. It might result in NFA and thats good, it might result in the children or you needing some support, thats ok as well

What work took place with your husband about his violence at the time?

CatLadyDrinksGin · 29/07/2022 20:17

It’s reasonable for them to be concerned when your accommodation is clearly unsuitable for 5 people and you’ve had police involvement in the past. They should be cautious as ignoring these situations is how abusive situations continue. Carry on being cooperative and move to a three bed as soon as possible.

Outlyingtrout · 29/07/2022 20:22

I’d make a complaint. Maybe not a formal one but I’d definitely be asking to be assigned a different HV.

For her to leave you with the parting shot about children being removed by SS is just absolutely reckless and shocking when you’re dealing with a woman who is, like all pregnant women/new mums, vulnerable to PND and other MH issues related to having a baby. So, so unprofessional.

She asked you all sorts of questions that are way outside of her remit. You should feel that a HV is on your side, advocating for you and your baby. This one wasn’t.

Upwiththelark76 · 29/07/2022 20:23

Put in a complaint . Yes she can ask questions thats her job . BUT from what you have described her attitude towards you was discriminatory. Don’t accept it . It’s not on.

SingingInParadise · 29/07/2022 20:24

I think the HV had a lot of preconceived ideas about travellers, some of which I suspect are pretty negative. I also suspect she didn’t believe you when you said SS had closed the previous case and you were living in that flat to be close to your family (I imagine she also assume those family members were on the travellers site).

I agree with a PP. I would ask to be assigned to another HV rather than the one you saw.
But you need to remember that midwife and HV are using those first meetings to assess if women need support. There are A LOT of nosy questions going in, all on the ground of supporting women and protecting the baby. Some women have seen the midwife going to check the recycling bin for example to check if the statement ‘no we don’t drink a lot at all’ is true…. So it’s not all you or that HV. It’s also down the questioning they are asked to go through.

The bottom line is that SS closed the case again. Which is great.

HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 20:24

bellac11 · 29/07/2022 20:13

The issue will be about your relationship and the previous DV.

During any assessment information will be gathered to get a full picture of your functioning, routines, parenting, social and family network. So its not racist or discriminatory to ask questions about your living choices

Many families are overcrowded but we also know that the more overcrowded a family is the more the risk of interfamilial sexual abuse, 5 children in one bed is an awful lot.

All of these factors put together mean that its right that there is an assessment. It might result in NFA and thats good, it might result in the children or you needing some support, thats ok as well

What work took place with your husband about his violence at the time?

There isn’t five children in a one bedroom, my two girls share their bedroom, and we sleep in the living room, baby boy is due in October and we move in November literally around the corner it’s just a matter of waiting until the house is available, nothing happened in regards to my husband, he kicked the lock off the door so I rang the police and he was arrested for criminal damage, that was all, in the 35 day assessment I only heard from SW 3 times throughout, one home visit and twice by phone, done all the usual checked with school, GP, police and relevant agencies and no issues. I’m just not sure why HV had to open it all back up again if there was no cause for concern previously, also, again, her questions, regarding my finances, my previous marriage, why I was in an apartment and not on the site (there is a site less than 5 mins away), it’s simply because I want my children to grow up in a settled environment, we lived on site for a little while and noticed a huge change in my 8yo behaviour. I just want what is best for my kids in every situation, I was really concerned about my youngest girls walking (she walks with her feet turned in) she has funny little hips, HV wasn’t interested at all, just told me to contact GP

OP posts:
IndecisiveAnnie · 29/07/2022 20:26

I think this definitely sounds like discrimination / racism against you because you’re a Traveller. I can’t believe it’s standard practice for HVs to ask such detailed questions about finances, relationship history, work etc; I certainly was never asked any of that (perhaps beyond whether I lived with my son’s dad and broadly what my job was). It’s not a ‘card’, it’s still really common and sadly much more widely accepted than other forms of racism seem to be. I’m really sorry you had this experience and glad SS have closed your ‘case’ so quickly. I would definitely ask for a different HV and also if you wanted you could ask what the standard questions are HV should ask / what a typical first visit would look like. In the event it’s not like yours (which I’m sure it won’t be!) you could send through your list of questions you were asked and the impact it had on you. Brilliant you had the foresight to write a list by the way! The most important thing though is you feeling relaxed and happy and having a positive start with your new baby, so of course you should only do what you have the energy for. I absolutely don’t think this HV would have treated a settled mum like this and I’m sorry she did to you. She might well have some concerns about any volatility in your relationship now after the police incident as well as you being overcrowded in the flat. Those I can see why she’d want to discuss and may even want to raise with SS, as much for potential support for you as anything; concerns about those things don’t at all mean you’re a bad mum. I really hope everything goes well for you and you get a bit more space soon too!

Mumoftwoinprimary · 29/07/2022 20:27

I don’t think it’s her job to ask me how my first marriage ended and how did my family react?

She is asking this because of your husband’s violence.

She wants to know:-

  1. Do you have a history of being in abusive relationships?
  2. If your husband was violent again and you needed to leave him - would your family support you?
HoneyNan · 29/07/2022 20:27

Sorry can I just add, I have an absolutely brilliant midwife, I had an appointment a couple of days with her and I explained the situation to her and she told me some health visitors can just be really nosey especially if it’s a case where they haven’t worked with travellers before they love to know the ins and outs etc. I suppose il just ask if I can possibly see another HV, I will loose my mind if she arrives to my home a few days after I have this baby!

OP posts:
SingingInParadise · 29/07/2022 20:28

Fwiw i think that looking disgusted that the OP only has a one bedroom flat isn’t on.

Yes it’s cramped, no doubt about that. But you know what, sometimes there is no choice. Not everyone can afford to rent/live in a house ‘big enough’. It’s just going to get worse with the inflation/energy price increase etc…. Judging people like this shouldn’t be acceptable from the HV (even though I’m sure many people on MN will happily do that….)

bellac11 · 29/07/2022 20:29

Sorry I meant 5 people in a one bed, not 5 children!

I think you need to understand the difference between asking questions and feeling that you're being got at. Obviously she might have a terrible manner about her and that might not have helped. She shouldnt have talked about children being removed, thats inappropropriate

I might have missed it as your post was very long but your other assessment with SSD that was then closed, this was before husband came back, or was it after he came back?

bellac11 · 29/07/2022 20:32

Mumoftwoinprimary · 29/07/2022 20:27

I don’t think it’s her job to ask me how my first marriage ended and how did my family react?

She is asking this because of your husband’s violence.

She wants to know:-

  1. Do you have a history of being in abusive relationships?
  2. If your husband was violent again and you needed to leave him - would your family support you?

Exactly, its concerning that others cant see this.

I can understand OP not understanding because the recipient of assessments will often feel defensive but its not helpful to talk about discrimination when the whole point of multi agency professionals who all come into contact with children is that each person has a responsiblity

At the end of the day we have a mum who is back with a man who was violent, going to have a child, so what is the situation with that?

IndecisiveAnnie · 29/07/2022 20:32

bellac11 · 29/07/2022 20:29

Sorry I meant 5 people in a one bed, not 5 children!

I think you need to understand the difference between asking questions and feeling that you're being got at. Obviously she might have a terrible manner about her and that might not have helped. She shouldnt have talked about children being removed, thats inappropropriate

I might have missed it as your post was very long but your other assessment with SSD that was then closed, this was before husband came back, or was it after he came back?

If the OP’s post is too long for you to bother reading (it really wasn’t very long) then you should leave her alone rather than doing your best to find ways to agree with the HV and assume OP’s children need more help than others

catbirddogchild · 29/07/2022 20:36

You have had previous social services involvement so yes she does have to check with children's services that all is now deemed ok. That is standard practice for midwife's and health visitors under the unborn baby protocol. (google it)
It is to identify any risk as early as possible then ideally work to reduce the risks.
Previous domestic abuse would be a reason alone to do this.
If no concerns it is just a check and box ticked and move on situation.
if there are concerns then extra support can be set up. Ie housing support etc.
This i safeguarding and essential practice in a cc country that has had multiple recent abuse cases that have ended in children dying.