HV referred me to social services.

[HoneyNan]

Hi everyone, il try and put this as brief as possible, I am a traveller, I married quite young and had a daughter but we divorced in Ireland when I was 22, I moved to UK and ended up remarrying (another traveller), a year and a half ago our relationship broke down and we separated for 4 months, within that 4 months we had a huge argument and he came to where I lived and broke the door and I called police, completely unacceptable I totally understand and very obviously a referral was done, social services phoned me, asked to call out, which they did and I was under assessment for 35 days but case was closed and never heard anything ever again, social worker was really lovely and had no concerns, fast forward 17 months, myself and my husband are back together a year, I am almost 8 months pregnant with baby number 3, my husband is brilliant, really hard worker and fantastic dad to both girls, bit lazy at home at times but I think most men are guilty of that lol, so what happened 17 months ago is well and truly forgotten, he broke my door handle with a kick and we said some horrible words and that was literally it, fast forward 17 months we are living in a new area in the UK (work reasons and better family support), HV called out almost two weeks ago, asked me loads of irrelevant questions, asked about my first husband and where he was, why my marriage ended, how did my family take it etc, also asked why I lived within the area I did and not on the travellers site, she also said “when you decide to go in to have this baby who is going to take your other two kids”, she was writing in a notebook as I was speaking, she asked a lot of questions about my 8 year old, also how I pay my rent, wanted to know my financial situation, she asked how many bedrooms were in my apartment and I told her only 1, that I was looking for somewhere bigger when new baby comes along, she looked absolutely disgusted and told me there isn’t enough space, my apartment is pretty big however it is only one bedroom, my two girls share a room and myself and my husband use a pull out sofa in the living room, we have a big utility room for our clothes and bits, she kept asking if I ever had social services involved or ever involved I said I had a referral over a year and a half ago and it was closed and I didn’t hear anymore, she told me she was going to contact social services to tie up and loose ends and make sure it was the truth, before she got up to leave she said to me and I quote “ok, well I’m going to go back to the office and contact childrens services as I told you, because you don’t want them calling out when you have your new baby, they have the power to remove children at the end of the day”, so I asked her what were her grounds for contacting them and why would they be calling out?? She said to me “oh they may not, but probably will”, I’ve no idea why they would have to call out to see me, there is no violence or cross words in my home, it’s spotless, my daughter is in school and both kids do lots of activities, my daughter plays with mostly settled children and my reason for being in an apartment was to raise my kids in a settled environment as I have lived on sites and travelling etc and I don’t like it, I try to do my best around my kids always, I am qualified to do lashes and I work from home about 2-3 days a week, she told me I wasn’t in a position to do that as it’s already too cramped here, anyways low and behold I got a phone call yesterday and it was a social worker, she received a referral from my health visitor stating that she had concerns about my relationship and a few other things, I had to explain everything on the phone and she luckily enough phoned back a few hours later to say she won’t be in touch again that she’s checked everything and has no concerns (thank god) my questions are, should I complain about the health visitor? I feel the questions were completely out of her dept, I felt interrogated, I felt so scared when she left thinking about social services arriving when new baby is here, for no reason, having to explain things, I just felt her questions were too much, she even asked what were sleeping arrangements if I stayed in a trailer, I’ve never been asked that by any health visitor before, I have a list of most of the things she asked me I haven’t put them all here, am I wrong? I’m seriously doubting myself, I don’t even know the first step to making a complaint and I don’t want to play the discrimination card because I am from travelling community, I know alot of others play on that. Just need advice really, thanks mums

I do think this is likely true and a reasonable area to explore. In that case she should have explained (politely and non-judgementally) her reasoning for asking such questions and what her concerns were. This would likely make OP much more open to answer then and also give HV some useful information about OP’s insight into the impact of witnessing violence on young children. She didn’t get any of that insight because she didn’t share her concerns with OP, she just asked what felt like invasive and judgemental questions with no explanation which left OP feeling understandably stressed and scared. (I’m not saying your children have witnessed any violence OP, just that given your ex’s outburst at the door it’s reasonable to wonder whether they might have)

I completely understand we are overcrowded, but unfortunately we both work, we aren’t entitled to a council house, we privately rent and at the minute it is all we can afford, I am only doing 2-3 day weeks, my husband works 6 days a week, sometimes even 7 if he gets the extra day, I spend alot of time alone with my kids and we are literally working to survive at the minute, even our rent has increased in this one bed, we are lucky enough to be able to rent again in November with the same landlord and it isn’t a huge increase, if we didn’t then we are looking at the guts of £1300 minimum a month for a 3 bed, along with our other out goings it’s unaffordable, I could very easily move to a site live in a caravan and cook and clean for the rest of my life and live for free but I have been trying for years to break this cycle, teaching my younger sisters that there is so much more to life than being married young and never having an ambitions, so for now we are stuck in a one bedroom because it’s simply all we can afford, it’s not ideal and it’s not by choice, but it’s what I have to do unfortunately!

Five in a one bed, especially if you wfh (who minds the dc then?) is an issue.

Is it? What about families of 5 rehoused into one room by councils? Haven’t you heard about the housing crisis? The op and her family sound as though they’re going to manage just fine.

You absolutely are entitled to be on the housing list and bidding on 2 bed properties, probably not 3 beds although as you say you have something lined up

But you are overcrowded in terms of what you are able to start bidding for. You probably wont be massively high up the list though

op just to say in many areas the finance questions are routine enquiry - it’s designed to check you’re getting any benefits or support at all you are entitled to and to try to combat children living in poverty. I don’t know enough about other current HV protocol but I do know that through my work so please don’t feel offended she asked that.

I'd say she knew you were a traveller and gave you a hard time because of it - not that 5 in a one bed is suitable but if she was actually concerned she could have been helpful and supportive whereas it sounds like she was just judgemental and wanting to give you a hard time. Talking about removing children is seriously inappropriate IMO. I would contact PALS and tell them what happened to you. I have found them to be really helpful in the past and they could tell you what would be best to do next, you definitely don't want to be seeing this mean, judgemental piece of work again. I'm sorry you've been treated like this, you sound really lovely.

I think HV can be nosey at times tbh. They make judgemental irrelevant comments. I have four years between each of my eldest kids and one asked f they had different dads ( they dont but couldn't see how it was relevant) so big family = multiple fathers for each child.

Yes you absolutely can complain. But pick your battles. I agree that a soft complain might help better than stressing yourself out. What do you want from this? To know she stuck to questions within her remit to ask? To get her away from your family? To protect the next traveller she visits? Those are the questions that will form your next step.

Also it's fine just feed back that she was noisy and based questions on you being a traveller so can you change hv.

Congratulations on your pg, dont get to stressed. The safeguarding had to be done, the rest maybe shes just a bit of a rude judgemental person. As a mum I'm sure you know they are everywhere

I don't think I would complain in your shoes only because I personally wouldn't want to rock the boat and have anything else against you on record, especially if prejudice is in play.

I think asking why you weren't on a traveller site was potentially an indication that she was prejudiced. I suppose maybe she was wondering whether that would give you more bedrooms but it's a bit weird to be thinking you would be better off on a site than in an apartment.

I'm glad the case has been closed and good luck with the new baby.

Many of those questions are normal - I remember being asked about my home, how many rooms, was the path to the door private or shared (eh?), my level of education, etc. If five of you will be living in a 1 bed flat then you are very overcrowded, and if you add the history of fighting and violence by your DH I don't think it is inappropriate for them to let SS assess the risk.

Rather than making a complaint I would wait and see what action SS take. It will probably be minimal, if any.

OP the questions sound reasonable to me. The HV was being thorough. You are back with a man who was violent in the recent past and the children are sharing their lives with him too.

Just to ask a question of you, can you really think of no reason why its relevant whether the children all have the same father as the newest child?

I think the traveller specific questions are out of order. Your choice whether you live in a house or a caravan.

However, there are 2 big issues that are concerning - your husband's previous violence and the overcrowding.

Moving in November only solves one so I can see why she still has concerns. If you are certain, it was a once off,then that will probably be proven in any SW review.

it is entirely appropriate that the HV made the referral - you had a huge argument and your husband kicked the door in.

Babies are incredibly vulnerable and hearing that I would worry about you all, particularly considered how overcrowded you are.

You can’t see how it’s relevant? 🙄…. What world do you live in where you can’t see this?? HVs are taught to show to be ‘nosey’ …it’s called ‘professional curiosity’ …..if OP asks for a different HV she may or may not get one….but although is will be a different face…the messages will be the same.

I am trying to explain this was a genuine once off, when the SW rang me back she explained that sometimes HV’s over share information, she was lovely and she didn’t feel any cause for concern and said I probably wouldn’t hear from them again, that if I wanted to be referred to the ante natal (I think it’s when they call out pre birth to chat about things) and I just politely refused, explained it’s my third baby. She was lovely, and I felt at ease alot more after speaking to her.

I disagree, my previous health visitor was amazing, when I had my last child, the lady that came out was just so lovely, I actually enjoyed her visits and she was so informative of all things baby related, always on the other end of the phone if I had questions, she was really lovely, so I don’t feel all HV’s are the same, just this particular nosey old bat that called out recently.

Pregnancy is often a trigger point for violence, so if you had any of this in the history of your relationship, and seem to be living in over crowded accommodation (which can increase stress) I think any health professional would have red flags. Not to say that there is a problem necessarily, but with all the horrible child protection cases that have come up recently, they will be making more reports and erring more on the side of caution. Its not nice to be part of, but at least now it is on record that social services are not concerned.

PS - they will also probably be trained to know that many people down play the violence in their relationships so will not necessarily accept what you say at face value. I think asking for another health visitor is a good idea if you think she was rude.

They're not 'out of order' at all

The answers will inform whether OP is isolated or not. Why is she living in an overcrowded accommodation when she might live with her family/near her family on a site. In this case its because she simply doesnt want to

On the other hand the answer might be because she is estranged or isolated from her family, not supported by them, disowned by them, fallen out with them.

If that was the case, now we're looking at at a young mum, with young children, overcrowded, isolated and with a partner who has been violent in the past and without family support around her.

A completely different picture.

Thats why those questions are asked.

You're entitled to apply for social housing on the basis of overcrowding. The health visitor and social services could support you being moved up to a priority on the housing lists, could be a more positive aspect to this maybe?

@bellac11 OP has two kids who share 1 bedroom. She doesn't have 5 kids sharing a bed!

no one wants to be overcrowded, if given the choice and availability you would be in a bigger place. i think some of the HV questions were odd and her line of questioning sounds negative like she has a negative view of travellers.
i would ask for a new HV to be assigned to you and tell them why.
try not to let it get you down, i'm glad SS saw sense.

Well I for one applaud you and am full of admiration for your stand against the norm. good luck with your move x

Asking the questions I would see as a combination of making conversation, curiosity and/ or helping or signposting to help. The referral to social services seems more malicious. I say that as somebody who has been isolated and in severe overcrowding and not been referred to SS (I'm not from a traveller background) that this sounds like discrimination to me because I have been in similar circumstances and not been referred.

Did she make you aware she was doing the referral before she did so?

I don't think 5 people (one of whom is a tiny baby) in a one-bed flat for a few months is as bad as some are picturing.

I live in a one-bed flat and it's very spacious with a big bedroom that could definitely be shared by a couple of children and a baby, although presumably the baby will be sleeping in the same room as OP anyway until they move. In fact, a family lived in this flat before us and they gave their child the bedroom and slept on a sofa bed in the living room themselves - it's not as unusual as people seem to think.