HV referred me to social services.

[HoneyNan]

Hi everyone, il try and put this as brief as possible, I am a traveller, I married quite young and had a daughter but we divorced in Ireland when I was 22, I moved to UK and ended up remarrying (another traveller), a year and a half ago our relationship broke down and we separated for 4 months, within that 4 months we had a huge argument and he came to where I lived and broke the door and I called police, completely unacceptable I totally understand and very obviously a referral was done, social services phoned me, asked to call out, which they did and I was under assessment for 35 days but case was closed and never heard anything ever again, social worker was really lovely and had no concerns, fast forward 17 months, myself and my husband are back together a year, I am almost 8 months pregnant with baby number 3, my husband is brilliant, really hard worker and fantastic dad to both girls, bit lazy at home at times but I think most men are guilty of that lol, so what happened 17 months ago is well and truly forgotten, he broke my door handle with a kick and we said some horrible words and that was literally it, fast forward 17 months we are living in a new area in the UK (work reasons and better family support), HV called out almost two weeks ago, asked me loads of irrelevant questions, asked about my first husband and where he was, why my marriage ended, how did my family take it etc, also asked why I lived within the area I did and not on the travellers site, she also said “when you decide to go in to have this baby who is going to take your other two kids”, she was writing in a notebook as I was speaking, she asked a lot of questions about my 8 year old, also how I pay my rent, wanted to know my financial situation, she asked how many bedrooms were in my apartment and I told her only 1, that I was looking for somewhere bigger when new baby comes along, she looked absolutely disgusted and told me there isn’t enough space, my apartment is pretty big however it is only one bedroom, my two girls share a room and myself and my husband use a pull out sofa in the living room, we have a big utility room for our clothes and bits, she kept asking if I ever had social services involved or ever involved I said I had a referral over a year and a half ago and it was closed and I didn’t hear anymore, she told me she was going to contact social services to tie up and loose ends and make sure it was the truth, before she got up to leave she said to me and I quote “ok, well I’m going to go back to the office and contact childrens services as I told you, because you don’t want them calling out when you have your new baby, they have the power to remove children at the end of the day”, so I asked her what were her grounds for contacting them and why would they be calling out?? She said to me “oh they may not, but probably will”, I’ve no idea why they would have to call out to see me, there is no violence or cross words in my home, it’s spotless, my daughter is in school and both kids do lots of activities, my daughter plays with mostly settled children and my reason for being in an apartment was to raise my kids in a settled environment as I have lived on sites and travelling etc and I don’t like it, I try to do my best around my kids always, I am qualified to do lashes and I work from home about 2-3 days a week, she told me I wasn’t in a position to do that as it’s already too cramped here, anyways low and behold I got a phone call yesterday and it was a social worker, she received a referral from my health visitor stating that she had concerns about my relationship and a few other things, I had to explain everything on the phone and she luckily enough phoned back a few hours later to say she won’t be in touch again that she’s checked everything and has no concerns (thank god) my questions are, should I complain about the health visitor? I feel the questions were completely out of her dept, I felt interrogated, I felt so scared when she left thinking about social services arriving when new baby is here, for no reason, having to explain things, I just felt her questions were too much, she even asked what were sleeping arrangements if I stayed in a trailer, I’ve never been asked that by any health visitor before, I have a list of most of the things she asked me I haven’t put them all here, am I wrong? I’m seriously doubting myself, I don’t even know the first step to making a complaint and I don’t want to play the discrimination card because I am from travelling community, I know alot of others play on that. Just need advice really, thanks mums

OP you sound like you and your husband work really hard to make a good life for your children. I also think the HV was prejudiced, good job the social worker wasn't too. Of course the stuff relating to your partner's previous violence was important to ask and it's also reasonable for her to phone SS to check the case really was closed - but it sounds more like she has opened a new referral? On what grounds?
The overcrowding should not be a SS referral as you have a plan and it is short term. Even if it wasnt she should be helping you get on a housing list not threatening that your baby will be taken away (this should never have happened!). The other questions are just prejudice. Not 'are you eligible for any benefits, can we check you are getting everything you are eligible for' but 'how do you pay your rent'? She assumed you and your partner didn't work. She asked intrusive questions about a previous marriage and family reactions (not just 'have you experienced domestic violence in previous relationships'?)
I think a formal complaint is a hassle for you, but I would send an email to her team manager letting them know what and how she asked you, and that you understand some were essential questions but others felt judgemental and rude, and ask on that basis to have that HV not involved with your family. Hopefully they will also follow up on it and give her some more training.

There's numerous threads on this site about how we can prevent child abuse / deaths and how professionals are not doing there job properly at the same time we have people saying not to engage with HVs or other professionals and advising to put complaints in as they don't like their manner. If we want to protect all children then some apparently intrusive questions need to be asked to all of us.

If there were genuine reasons for all of the questions then these should have been discussed with OP. She’s not a child. She’s a grown woman with children and the HV is there to support her. If a HV leaves a woman feeling judged, belittled, potentially having been racially profiled, frightened that her children will be taken from her for no reason etc, then the HV has failed that woman. Women deserve and are entitled to open communication and to be treated respectfully.

But no one says there's five in a bed.

I know a lot of people who raised
families in one bed flats, doing exactly what you do - 2 kids in bedroom, parents In living room. And not even poor people as such. It's very doable when that's the norm/ what you can afford.

Clearly, unimaginable to people with privileged background.

Exactly.

Racially profiled

Oh dear, this is the sort of language that is used as a smoke screen

This is a young mum, with a husband who has been violent, pregnant, has moved around the UK (traveller or not its a consideration if families have moved from one LA to another) and she is overcrowded, all factors which raise stress and risks

I think that’s very unfair, what would be my reason for removing my children from school before 16, are you assuming because I am a traveller that they will leave school early? It was one episode, I work hard, so does my husband, does it matter how many babies I have once I have enough space for them? Why would I need to be on contraception, please elaborate, especially about school, I would love to know why you think they would leave any earlier than 16!

Sometimes people on here are so determined to find sexism and racism at every post and interaction.
The HV had good reasons to refer. You're with a man who you called police on not even 2 years ago and went on to have more children with. You're in an overcrowded home and struggling financially. When the baby is here the sleepless nights and being so on top of each other may trigger violence again. It's right that social workers should assess your circumstances for both your and your children's sake. This is not a traveller issue this is an issue of a woman going back to her DV partner and children involved.

I would like to add, before I was living in this apartment I was in a 3 bedroom house for 4 years, unfortunately our previous landlady’s Son was moving home from Australia and she needed the house back for him, our rent hadnt increased in the 4 years we were there, when it come to the time to look for a new home, rent some (not all) had almost doubled in our area, it was completely unaffordable, even on an excellent wage with two incomes I think people would still struggle, we moved an hour away from where we used to live, rent was cheaper but we unfortunately had to settle for smaller, otherwise we were homeless as simple as that, yes I have family but also have a family of my own and don’t want to move in on top of someone else, I am completely taken aback by a comment here regarding my children not having any futures as is, and that I should be on contraception, if I was claiming benefits and popping out child after child with continuous violence occurring in my home I’d understand, this was one incident 17 months ago, no further involvement from SS, so the person that posted that is very unfair!

Gosh what a lot of judgemental posts.
Two little girls share a bedroom. Absolutely fine .The middle class mumsnet need for children to have a bedroom each is bizarre. I shared. With my sister and we had a lovely childhood. We used to tell one another stories as we went to sleep .
Mum and dad sleep on a bed settee. How does that affect the girls ? They will be in bed asleep .
traveller people are super tidy and know how to keep small spaces clear of clutter.
And it’s not five people in one bedroom flat the baby is not born yet.
OP you sound absolutely lovely and sound like a lovely mum.
Child abuse occurs in all types of family’s middle class too , they are just better at hiding it.

As a non-traveller, I have never ever been asked:

• about my last relationship and why it ended
• why I'm not living somewhere
• what my financial situation is like
• what my family thought of X, Y, Z.

I genuinely do believe that she is being discriminatory and has no experience of working with travellers/ex-travellers.

I think the life you're giving your children is great! You know it's not ideal all living in a 1 bed apartment and so have sourced a 3 bed house and only have to wait a few months. You both work. Like what is the actual problem???

I understand she might have been worried about the way your DH reacted all that time ago. But nobody knows the ins and outs of what happened. My partner has never ever said a bad word to me and would never lay a finger on me - however I've seen him punch a wall before and break his wrist. If it was my wall, maybe I could have reported it. Maybe he'd have been arrested.... It does not mean that he would be violent to me. It means that he felt emotions so big he didn't know what to do with them at the time and lashed out. But I know my partner. I know him well enough to understand what happened and that he's very unlikely to hit anything again in the future! In the same way, I'm sure, that you know your husband.

Definitely ask for another HV. Xxx

You're focusing on the overcrowding issue, it is one factor, not the main factor

You dont mention much about what work your husband did about his violence.

Thank you so much, alot of the comments have my mind racing here and completely doubting my abilities as a parent almost, the apartment is pretty big, when I was moving in my landlord said to me he didn’t understand why it was never built as a two bed, as the one bedroom that’s here is huge, we have a utility room, a storage space, a large sitting room, long hallway and large kitchen, really lovely neighbours, and in a nice area, we are content here, and we will be happy to stay here until November, I scrub every day and always keep it clutter free. Thank you again for your lovely comment x

I would ask for a different hv but wouldn’t complain. I know it’s upsetting but I think that she was just trying to make sure that you and your children are safe. Her questions would have been different if you weren’t a traveler but you are so although it’s not nice for you a lot to work is done in keeping travellers (especially women) safe and because of this certain questions have to be asked.
I’m a nurse and would be asking certain questions depending on someone’s background. It isn’t done to discriminate, it’s done to gain understanding.
It’s done and nothing came of it. Enjoy your babies and look forward to your move.

(btw I’m really tired so hopefully I’ve made sense).

I've reported @murasaki's post for racism. What an absolutely disgusting thing to write.

@HoneyNan I don't think posters can help you here. We weren't there. I imagine that the HV had some concerns and took it to social services, who then did their job and decided the HV concerns were unfounded.

But I also agree with a PP who said that a HV should not be saying to a pregnant woman that they might take their baby away. A HV should not be leaving you feeling like this. At the minimum, if I was your friend, I'd be advising you to get a new HV.

What you mention about your little girls feet sounds a lot like how my parents described my walking before they discovered I had hip dysplasia. Is she running funny as well?

I'd push to see the GP asap for a referral for a hip scan if you haven't already to be on the safe side.

No, she was doing her job! Obviously something pricked her ears about your situation.

Racially profiled

Oh dear, this is the sort of language that is used as a smoke screen

A smokescreen for what? I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.

It's fair enough that the HV asked questions relating to the relationship and stress factors (living arrangements, family support, finances etc) given the previous history and police involvement, but this should have been explained to OP and should have been undertaken in a professional manner with the aim of supporting OP, not conducted as an interrogation that left OP feeling anxious, stressed and judged. She was not afforded the respect and courtesy that every woman deserves from their HV.

The question about sleeping arrangements if OP visits a caravan was purely asked because she’s a traveller. Never have I been asked about sleeping arrangements if I visit my family. Never.

I think she was just doing her job. Yes she might have some preconceived ideas but at the end of the day travelers do statistically have higher crime rates etc so it’s important to check things out properly and she probably noticed you are minimising what happened with your husband like you did in your OP

She was racist. Simple as that.

Some of her questions are understandable others it's clear she was racially profiling you.

I would complain.

Best of luck with your pregnancy and the house move. Your HV is an idiot who's obviously no respecter of diversity. I'd highlight your concerns and request another HV so you have access to their services.