5 year old boy loves dressing up as a princess

[Klj1214]

I will start by saying that this is fully encouraged in our home, my son loves his collection of princess dresses just as much as he loves his power rangers or paw patrol toys.. My issue is a disagreement with his dad, for jubilee celebrations at school he wore his crown and elsa dress, the way he skipped into school full of joy filled my heart ❤ 5 yo came home saying a couple of his friends laughed at him so he told them to stop, he's a super happy boy and loves everyone so this kind of stuff just seems to roll off him, his dad has immediately demanded I stop letting him go to school in his dress up outfits because he doesn't want him to be bullied! My response was that other children should learn to be nicer and I won't be stopping the 5 yo from expressing himself at all. He completely disagrees and says he should only wear them inside the house 🤨. The school support children expressing themselves and I'm sure if he felt the need to go to the teacher it would have been dealt with, but he dealt with it himself. Am I in the wrong?

@PeopleAllergy exactly this. And stop trying to rewrite the language to abolish women.

I have zero problems with cross dressing.

Do you Equate expressing yourself by drawing a picture as well with peeing in a room. one (like wearing a princess dress) is a harmless activity they doesn't hurt anyone) and the other is unhygienic and damages property.

Op is teaching her son that as long as your don't hurt someone or something it's fine, which is my "ideology" as well.

He would have seen princesses in the same places that little girls see princesses: on TV, in books or when with other kids.

I think it's great that he isn't bothered that a few kids laughed and it's great that the other kids saw that it's fine to like what you like. It will teach them all tolerance.

To be honest if a child overheard you saying the things you wrote in your post ("his mummy wanted him to be a girl")that might lead to that child becoming intolerant and narrow minded and having a less rich life.

Ah right yes. Gotcha. I wonder if its deliberate. Claim "I'm GC" then spout a load of non GC nonsense then show otherwise what those uppity GC women believe.

I would be happy to see more men wearing skirts and dresses etc. I believe clothes are clothes and anyone can wear them.

I actually think it would help cool the debate if more heterosexual men started wearing dresses and skirts. Women wear trousers etc and no one gives a second glance or questions if they are women.

My 5 year old son sounds exactly the same as your wee boy. You are definitely n the right and your husband has a very old fashioned attitude. My dad is like this when my son wanted to buy a Elsa dress with his birthday money my dad wasn't happy. Tough my little boy isn't hurting anyone and I told him this

This is such a difficult topic.

I understand that children should be allowed to express themselves but I would not let either of my sons wear Princess dresses - they are 5 and 8. To be honest they would be absolutely horrified at the thought of it.

I remember when my eldest son was 3 he once dressed up as a witch when we were at a “stay and play” session and I thought it was cute…..and I probably would have thought it was cute at 5 years old….but for some reason, dressing up as a witch is different to wanting to wear princess dresses.

I would not be keen on letting my 5 year old son go anywhere dressed as a princess and I know my husband would not allow it full stop.

I can’t even explain why I feel like this - I just do.

Because you have been conditioned by society to think this way.

I agree with your husband on this one - it's all part of growing up and learning cultural norms. Some of these are instinctive, others learned and imparted by society, such as boys not wearing dresses. Whenever I hear adults gushing about how delightful it is to see little boys dressing up as princesses, deep down it's clearly just the adults congratulating themselves on how open-minded they are.

The idea that children feel repressed by boundaries and that this will lead to some kind of emotional damage has been massively overblown and really isn't supported by evidence. Quite the opposite, children need to learn how to world works, how society is organised, and children actually feel safer when they are given clearly delineated boundaries and cultural codes.

What a lot of old manure.

I think I know why. Because of social conditioning that enforces outdated and limiting gender stereotypes that force kids (and adults) to fit into neat boxes, at worst making them feel they should identify out of their sex if they fit more 'neatly' into the stereotypes associated with the opposite sex.

Unfortunately that's what you and others are perpetuating.

It's cute when they're little but let's be honest it's not socially acceptable as they age. They will get bullied. All these people saying men can wear dresses if they want, I doubt many would actually date a man who wore dresses. Most MN posts about men cross dressing consider them as stepping stones to trans.

The thing is he's not a man, he's 5. Tell him OP that lots of people think only girls should wear dresses so they might make comments or say mean things - but if he wants to then it's fine and he can just ask them to stop (or tell the teacher). It's depressing when they're this young and innocent to have gender stereotypes forced so harshly down their throat.

In contrast though I must admit to thinking Harry Stiles looks fucking ridiculous in a dress with his tats and man body, but he's not hurting anyone and thinks he's the next Bowie or something so who am I to argue. But the OP's child is 5 not nearly 30, let him have fun.

As long as it was appropriate office attire that female employees would be allowed to wear (i.e, not a gold lamé mini dress) then sure.

It's within living memory that it was the cultural norm for women to only wear dresses and skirts, with very few exceptions.

Were women wrong to challenge that? If their parents let them wear trousers and shorts as children, were they failing in their parental duty by not teaching their daughters societal norms (of which not wearing trousers was among the least restrictive)?

And I'm sorry to press the point but what response do you expect exactly?
Are posters (sorry, ladies) supposed to read this and go "Goodness, you're right! It really is freakish and abnormal, better nip it in the bud now before he develops as a real deviant!"

Even as a whataboutism it doesn't work- it's based on the assumption that the people reading it are as "open minded but..." as you are.
People, by and large, aren't agreeing with the OP to give themselves a pat on the back, but because there's no good reason why it's actually wrong for a little boy (or an adult man) to wear a dress other than "other people might be assholes about it" or "grown adults find it weird and their sensibilities can't be offended."

Maybe we should make it socially acceptable. The only reason it isn't is because society says so.

I'm also not certain that "Would I find it sexually attractive if an adult did it?" is really the question that needs asking when deciding what a 5 year old should be allowed to wear.

It's fine when five but as a parent you're raising them to function as a person in the real world. Perhaps it should be acceptable and society needs to move on but do you want your son to be the ground breaker. Celebrities may get away with it but 16 year old Mark from Basinstoke nipping down to Sainsburys in a summer dress may draw unwarranted comments. If you say it's fine at five when would you tell him it's not fine. Occasionally for dress up perhaps but I wouldn't encourage him to see it as the norm.

I think you've got to credit children with a bit of self awareness here. Even a five year old will be aware of that the other boys in his class aren't wearing princess dresses. He will most likely be able to link "a couple of the boys laughed at my dress" with "the other boys don't wear dresses". The OP not banning him from wearing dresses outside isn't going to entail him being completely oblivious to the fact that it's not the norm.

16 year old Mark getting shouted at in Sainsbury's certainly isn't going to have a sudden crisis of "But mum told me it was fine! I just don't understand..."

What exactly could you do if your 16 year old boy wanted to wear a dress to the supermarket? Apart from the fact that it would be quite difficult to actually stop him, he'd be well aware of the fact that people might shout at him or laugh at him. Whatever you might think of him doing it, he's not ignorant of social norms, he just isn't following them.

There is nothing the OP is doing which is somehow preventing her son from functioning in the real world. If she was insisting that her son be able to wear a princess dress instead of school uniform, or saying that he should never have to wear trousers because he doesn't like them, then sure- but as it is she isn't making him less able to do anything. There's no reason he'd grow up to function less well than anyone else.

Your whole post was spot on @TranquilAirOfMorning
Very balanced too.

Nuts innit.

*You realise that the gender stereotypes you're so keen on are part of the reason kids feel obliged to have a gender identity rather than just being themselves, even if they enjoy activities / interests traditionally associated with the opposite sex?

Gender identity labels wouldn't be necessary if a young woman felt completely accepted as an individual who happens to be a woman who enjoys activities / clothing / hobbies etc traditionally associated with men. They'd just be them.

You're part of the problem you're worried about!*

Completely agree 100%!!! @wellhelloitsme

To those saying that "repressing" boys by not allowing them to dress as princesses is the kind of thing that will make them want to transition later in life... No. If you look at trans men, they were very often dressed up as girls by female relatives as children, or praised for doing so, and so they come to associate cross dressing with feelings of validation and love, which is one of the impetuses to transition. So you are not a neutral, harmless party by letting your son dress as a girl and overtly delighting in him doing so.
Adults have a responsibility to teach children how to operate in the real world. Cross dressing for a child is very different to pretending you are a train or a hippopotamus.

No. If you look at trans men, they were very often dressed up as girls by female relatives as children, or praised for doing so

Do you have a source for this? Genuinely, as I haven't seen this as a fact. In fact you often hear of trans men having repressed wanting to cross dress from their families during childhood and adolescence.

Id like to see some studies/proof whatever into this too. It certainly doesn't match my experience.