I'm so viscious towards my children. I feel so much venom towards them.

[RedMist]

Name change regular.

I love my kids. They make me smile and proud.

Sometimes though, they drive me nuts. Actually, a lot of the time they drive me nuts. Like I have no time for them and they are nothing but an embuggarance. I wish they'd just leave me alone.

They mither for food and sweets a lot.

They prod, poke and provoke each other.

They trash every room, indeed even little corners I've just managed to organise or tidy. We live in a shit tip, no matter how long I spend clearing up & cleaning.

My son is 6.5 My daughter is 4.5.

I've started to lash out, really visciously. Tonight, I smacked my son across his face because he;d pushed his sister when he'd walked in the room. Then I started pushing him and saying "How do you like it eh? How do you like it when a bigger person pushes you around?"

Then I sent them to bed and refused to kiss my son good night. I was still shaking with anger at him for deliberately being a little shit.

My daughter pushes my buttons as well. She snaps and snarls and is deliberately rude, to gain attention. She whines and whines until my head feels like it's exploding.

I've read the parenting books. I know the right way to discipline. I just seem to have lost the ability to do it. I'm irrational and short-fused when ever the children are around.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I like this?

I went to GP and he gave me fluxatine (sp?) - basically, prozac. It zonked me out so I stopped it.

Where do I turn to next. What shall I do?

I'm married and my DH helps with the children but he's quite untidy as well - simple DIY jobs for example, always end up with every tool and all the associated crap, just left lying around, waiting for me to clear them away. So that just adds to everything.

I need answers Mumsnet, or at least a place to start resolving this.

Any advice?

EllieG that's really great

We have a dog. I walk him some days and DH walks him others. I do like running and will start again in the next two weeks (just got the dregs of a chest infection to shift and then I'll be taking Blu's advice and sticking a hat and thinsulate gloves on - maybe just a quick turn or two around the block because running in cold air makes me choke!).

£littlefrogs, I found the perimenopausal thread on here last night and spent an hour reading it. I don't seem to be fitting the description/symptoms but on the other hand, they don't seem to be definitive or that precise. Could be the case, so I'll throw it into the cooking pot along with other things to be investigated.

Cheers soapbox.

Ellie, oh your post was lovely. She sounds as if she's trying to remain loyal to her first Mummy and nothing more complicated than that, doesn't she? Bless her. I mentioned my own step-mum further down and how she has little details about my Mum - preferred nappy cream when we were babies, favourite perfume etc. Such small, tiny, inconsequential bits of info but they form a bridge back to a woman who really did exist. They make her real for me (and my brothers). This stuff became more important when I was grown and had my first baby. Maybe, if you have any similar tid-bits of info about your DSD's Mum, you could make a little note book of them. If your DH can remember some things, add them to the list. Give it to her on her 18th birthday or something. A step-mother providing a bridge/connection/conductor back to the biological mother is a very precious, beautiful gift in my experience.

Get ready for the tweenage years though Ellie, when she shouts "you can't tell me what to do, you're not my real Mum" crap at you. I know - I did it. I stuck two fingers up at my Step-mum once and she stuck two up right back at me. I was STUNNED! She never, ever swore. Oddly, we got on great guns after that

Redmist - oh how I wish my own mother had been able to stand back and acknowledge her behaviour, take ownership, and actually do something about it. What you are doing is fantastic. Great thread.

I've been giving this thread a lot of thought over the last couple of days and have been thinking about my own situation. Apologies if this post seems self indulgent however, I've got a lot of comfort and piece of mind from other posters.

Anyway, on the need for tidyness in order to feel in control. I realise now that this is something I've been doing for years. Way before DD was born. I think somehow and for some reason this is my way of controlling my life when I feel out of my comfort zone as it were. I often feel pretty inadequate, like I'm not very good at anything, I have no specific 'talent' and generally feel like I don't do anything well. I'm just mediocre. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a moper and I rarely sit around feeling sorry for myself but I really do actually genuinely believe that I'm not great at anything in particular and it irks me. I'd like to be. (Funnily I often mention to DH that I'm only any good at cleaning!! just twigged) Anyway, I've found becoming a mother has hauled me miles from my 'comfort zone' in the sense that I often feel like I'm completely out of my depth, I'm totally and utterly rubbish at it. I have no idea what I'm doing and in particular, if my DD is upset, whingy or clingy I feel immense stress and if she's like that at a time when the house is upside down / i'm in the middle of cooking or am out and can't attend to her immediately then I feel like I'm going to go mad with irritation. I've often said to DH that I can't understand why I feel the urge to push her away (metaphorically) at a time when she needs me most.

I could go on all day about how ordered my life seemed before DD and how I've been wrenched into a completely different life where nothing is in my control (Oh I could entertain you for ages about my attempts at instilling a routine when DD was tiny and the spectacular failure that was) Part of me felt this immense pressure to be perfect as a mother because I was 34, hadn't really shown an interest in having children, wasn't what you'd consider an earth mother and I felt and still do, like the spot light is on me, that everyone including my own mother (an 'expert' after raising numerous DC, DSC and fostering tens of children) was judging me. I felt, and still do sometimes, really cross that my DD wasn't allowing me to be the parent I wanted to be (twisted or what?)

I think ultimately, the tidying is something that I'm OK with. It's my therapy and provided I'm allowed to get on with it once a week at least I'll live with the mess (to a degree) in between. What I'll try and do is listen to my DD's needs more and not confuse them with my own feelings of being out of control or my need to be 'good' at being a parent. I'll just be.

Thanks for this forum

I have been avoiding this thread, and finally picked up the courage to read it today.

Redmist
Thankyou for starting this, for being so honest. A lot of what you have written strikes a cord in me. I have also smacked my children because I was so frustrated and angry. Afterwards I was ashamed of myself and disgusted.

DH and I have always had a good relationship but recently we have done nothing but argue. I feel tense and angry a lot. The slightest little thing has me shouting at the DC. I have to leave the room to stop myself striking them.

I recently read the perimenopausal thread, and wondered if part of my problem at the moment is perhaps hormonal. Probably not, becuase I am a bit young, but then I looked into the pill that I recently started taking and discovered that it often causes irritibility and anxiety.

I stopped taking it at the and am feeling a bit better. I also had a long talk with DH about my feelings and fears. There is a possibility that we may have to move to another country this year and that is making us both tense.

The last week or so has been much better, just knowing that there is perhaps a reason for my bad temper and that I can do something about it. I have been having fun with the DCs again and am not so short tempered.

I have taken note of some of the very good advice that you have been given. I like Lisalisa's NLP and the film crew. And the starjumps

I am so glad that you have the nerve to come on here and be honest. The first step is always the hardest. I am sure that you, and others like me, who are struggling to cope will continue to get the support and help that makes MN what it is.

Agree with baretrees and onebatmother.

You can repair this. You need to find time for yourself and time away from the children. Do you work? I honestly find work a godsend (it's tidy here). So agree with Oregonianabroad and Morningpaper on that.

One thing I would add to starjumps etc is music. Music does let you release emotions that are piling up inside you. My daughter is too young for naughtiness really but when she is throwing a screaming tantrum I often start singing and it calms us both down (not a good singer by the way but it's a distraction, amuses us both and helps me breathe more so calms me). So as well as starjumps I would also suggest having a key piece of music or song on the CD player on standby - ready to play at any moment of anger. It just changes the mood of the room and gives you a moment to do something else so you don't overreact to your son (oh and temporarily confuses the children).

Good luck. You're very courageous to post about this.

Redmist, I think it's incredibly brave of you to be so honest - your post was the first baby step towards getting your life back on track. As well as all the other sensible suggestions here, have you considered seeing a parenting psychologist or a life coach who specialises in working with parents, possibly with a counselling background?
A good coach can support you and help you work through stuff, change the way you see things and deal with them, and make practical changes. I'm a bit biased as I'm a coach myself working with new mums, but I've seen it work wonders in a relatively short period of time. Give me a buzz if this is an idea that appeals and I'll try and put you in touch with someone good who can help.
Big hugs Pinchy xx

Wow. I'm another one who's been avoiding this thread. I don't have depression, but am prone to redmist moments & have slapped & shouted at ds in those moments. I didn't want to come on here and read 1001 posts about how crap I was. Instead, a wonderful, helpful, constructive thread - and some inspiring progress, redmist.

And I totally agree with whoever said that the first time is the worst - very hard to get back once you've started being physical. It's going to be my new years resolution to stop. Dd is just coming up to 2, so I am determined to get myself in control before she looses hers

Similar to other suggestions on here, one thing that has been helping me when frustrated is to find a way to 'let it out' - I turn the desire to screech/slap into a positive 'I'm so cross with you ... I'm going to eat your toes' (run, grap, attempt to eat toes)'I'm going to growl like a monster soon, watch out .... GRRRRRRRRRRR' - sounds goofy, but allows me to get the energy out, express frustration in a safe way.

Thanks for starting this redmist, and for all the wonderful, creative ideas

Thank you for having the courage to start this thread RedMist - much of what has been said has rung a bell with me, particularly the house being a tip and me just glowering at it and getting frustrated until I blitz it and then start the cycle all over again. Will work on my bedroom first!

hiya shitemum, in response to your post, i felt inadequate too when i first read the book -- but then, i realised that many of the coping mechanisms i was relying on were inadequate. it is not for everyone, and there are parts of it i totally don't relate to, but i think given redmist's situation and the similarity to my own when i read it, it might give her something to ponder.

I do hope you find it helpful, redmist, but it is true to say that you might need to give it some time to digest.

enough about that.

just wanted to add that reading ellieG's & your stepmum posts again tapped further into that well of resentment i feel -- i have had no one to ask what i was like as a child, how my mother handled things, what nappy cream she used, and so on, and i have really felt that loss deeply. i do think a lot of this stuff might be connected to the way we were mothered ourselves, like many posters have also said.

keep up the good work -- i know it is hard going (emotionally, psychologically, physically). you are doing such great things for yourself and your family, and also for all those who are finding support on this thread.

I'll tell you what impresses me about this thread. The number of people who were not properly mothered who are determined to do it right and give their children the mothering they never had.

Oregonian, what you posted does chime with me not for myself but for my BIL who is an incredible father but had an absent father himself. He is so amazingly loving to his children but can't help but be angry with them sometimes for not realising how hard he is working to give them something he never had. Of course they are just two little boys taking their two wonderful parents for granted and have no insight into what he lost as a child so don't (and shouldn't) feel particularly grateful.

Oregon, could you tell us a little about the book you referred to and its ideas? Very interested to hear more (and I might then get the book...!)

Part of the problem in our family I think (and I know that all families have different dynamics and this might not apply for anyone else) stems from (probably my mismanagement of...) the fact that I want my DCs to feel free to grow up and explore and express themselves and develop their personalities and try out new things (I felt very "held back" as a child and like I wasn't really allowed to grow up) - I also want to foster an atmosphere at home where anything and everything can be discussed and nothing is taboo, and where good negotiation by the children is actively encouraged. This seems to have been interpreted by my children as "anything goes", and that the children are in charge, which is not really quite what I had in mind (e.g. I had DS calling me an a*hole and curling his lip at me in contempt, which sent me completely apoplectic with fury) - so "the rules" work for us to the degree that they remind us all that there is a certain non-negotiable irreducible minimum standard of behaviour. (For them, and also for me that I shouldn't be yelling either.)

So - genuine question - and not intended in the least defensively (your original point was so nicely put) - how do you just let go of the rules and still bring up nice children? (On some level, although this might be contentious, trying to get the children to grow up be the sort of people we want them to be, might play a part in the stress that a lot of us feel about parenting...)

Oregonian - it is frustrating not be able to ask questions about our own childhoods. My own early childhood is just a strange scary foreign country lost in the mists of the dark ages.

God there are some really useful posts on here.

gingerninja - I can really identify with some of what you say in your post - you are not being self-indulgent at all btw - I often find that I get the urge to push DSD away when she needs me most - i.e when being clingy or attention-seeking. I agree with you in that I think this stems from feeling inadequately equipped to respond to this need/fear of failing so don't try etc. Lots of food for thought for me on this one.

Thanks to redmist and oregon for giving me some pointers from the step-child situation - when I first moved in I spent a lot of time with DSD talking about her Mum with her and we made up a photo/memory book, and she seemed to find it easier to talk to me about her than her Dad at times. She hasn't done so much recently, and I wonder if this is because I am not making the effort, plus am PG now so maybe she feels her Mum doesn't fit in to the 'new' family situation. I don't want her to feel that, and I had a chat with her the other night about it to say that I didn't want her to feel that her Mummy wasn't important and a person we could talk about as often as she wants. But I think it's true I haven't been making the same amount of effort, partly because I am finding it increasingly hard to deal with my own feelings about DP's past relationship (stupid jealous emotions - bloody preganancy hormones). I found loads of photos the other day which just made me feel insecure and silly, but now I'm thinking it might be better to get them out, since I know DSD hasn't seen them ever, and go through them with her.

Looby
The most important thing that we teach our children is respect.

Imo, teaching our children to respect their parents, their teachers and other members of our society while still giving them the freedom to express thereselves is the basis of good parenting. It goes without saying that we should show our children that we love and respect them too.

Finding this magical balance is the most difficult thing imaginable.

I too would like my children to grow up self-confident individuals. My PIL is a very controlling person, when someone asked my DH a question, his father answered for him. It made my DH a bit lacking in self-assurance, which has been difficult to overcome. He is determined not to treat his children like this, but struggles sometimes to beat back the inbuilt conditioning.

Such a complicated question, loobylolly! I'm not sure i know the answer, although i am trying to find it.

like you, i want to find a way to raise my children to behave well, but because they want to operate within reasonable limits, not because they are afraid of me, and this is what Kohn's book has helped me to articulate. I can completely see why you felt the need to set some ground rules (and that must have been a very difficult episode to endure). I think I would have explained my feelings to the children (I am feeling hurt by this behaviour), told them I felt that some rules might give us all a sense of structure -- 'a certain non-negotiable irreducible minimum standard of behaviour' is a very reasonable target! but then I would have tried to draw up the list with them (and maybe you did do this?). Then, when there are major disagreements, you can hopefully work through things with their input and compromising over things that don't really matter (he says a lot of what we tell our kids 'no' about is just a knee-jerk reaction), so that you can put your foot down when it does, using explanation and reason rather than reverting to 'because i am the mom and i said so and i am in charge'.

His main idea is that (if I have got this right) that rewarding and punishing (including the use of time-outs) is harmful to children because it gives them the idea that parental love is conditional on good behaviour; children would behave far better (and thus not need traditional methods of discipline) if they knew that parental love was unconditional.

we had a whole thread going on it a while ago, I'll see if i can find it for you so that i don't hijack this one to promote Alfie Kohn's claim to knighthood! Unconditional Parenting thread here

however, while we're on the subject of helpful parenting books (and I swear this is the last one -- i have also read them all, but these are the only 2 I would seriosly recommend), How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk has loads of practical solutions to help avoid tussling/power struggles/ 'traditional' methods of discipline. There was also a really good thread on that one a while ago but I don't know where it went.

I think that's a lovely idea, EllieG!

Just one last thing to add about Looby's post, my ds's are still very small, but I do say things like, 'we don't hit in this house' and 'we are kind to each other', so I guess we do have a similar set of rules that haven't been negotiated with them.

Just wanted to let you all know that the 'Film Crew' tactic worked on my DS1 (4)on the way home from school yesterday in the car. Not just for me but also for HIM. He was behaving like a horrible little brat in the car - hitting and shouting at his little bro, and at ME. He yelled at me that the after school snack I had brought him in he car was 'disgusting' and he was screaming at me to go to the shops to buy him a chocolate cake (I'd rather cut off my right arm than give you a cake right now matey!!) so I started pretending there was a camera in the rear view mirror on me and I kept my cool. Then I told him to imagine there was a camera on HIM and everyone at school was going to watch his behaviour on the telly. It was a MIRACLE!!

I wonder how long it will last! Not long probably but at least it saved the day yesterday!

EllieG, may I say how wise your posts are. I always read stepmother related posts, having had one myself, and am often shocked by how difficult grownups find it to be the grownup. Your posts are honest about the difficulties but are clear in their determination to do the right thing. Your dsd is a lucky girl.

I do use time outs, but because i did grow up feeling very unloved unless I acheived perfection (which of course I never did) I also make a huge point of telling my children often, and especially whe they have been sat on the bottom step for something, that "mummy loves you very much, even when she is cross with you" and making a big distinction between not liking the behaviour but still loving them. So much so that my 3 year old told me very seriously the other day that he ahd a big problem, because he liked all his friends, but not Ellie (his best friend by virtue of her mother being mine) but he still loved Ellie, but he didn't like her because she hadn't hugged him goodbye!

you are brave Redmist. Echo comments about ignoring negative posts. Have wanted to read this thread for a while but always had small kiddies stopping me! I wanted to say that I too feel immense anger towards my kiddies sometimes and it has scared me too. I do love my kiddies fiercely like a tiger and do things for my dd1 like making her packed lunches when it would be easier for her to have school dinners -a truly unselfish and private act. However I tell them to 'shut up' and stop their 'stupid' behaviour. I say they are 'silly' I hate saying these words. I have pulled dd1 along and pushed her away from me roughly. I have not hit but feel no pride since my pulling and pushing are effectively the same thing. I have tried to analyse why I feel this anger. Paert of it it to do with having 3 kids and deadlines of getting to school and playgroup to meet and of not having time to complete a train of thought. Our house its a tip too and so old it is falling apart. Feel it is easy for others to say that you must not mind. If I try not to mind it makes me more angry. I need to keep it tidy to feel better. Love the idea of my anger as bing my tantrum and the idea that I am being a child in need of a mother myself. Will think about that (if kiddies let me). My mother has dies as well as my father. She was not physically or verbally affectionate and did kick and slap me on a rare occasion though I know she did love me.

I still use time-outs too, Prufrock. Just a lot less often, and I am very aware of my reasons for doing so. Sometimes it is simply that we have reached the end of the line strategy-wise, but at least I know that.

And I recently started telling my ds1 that i love him even when he is naughty, a phrase that he tacks on if I forget it, which seems to have coincided with a sharp reduction in bad behaviour.

hi I have to add here as I've been where lots of you have been and I've felt ashamed too. Just thought I'd add a memory of when my eldest two were tiny, they were both screamong/moaning (whatever) and I felt so angry and out of control. All I wanted them to do was shutup shutup shutup. The hoover was lurking so I remember hoovering for hours (or so its seemed) i couldn,t hear them over the sound of the hoover and the floor looked better afterwards) but the rage did pass. Sometimes we just have to get away. (sadly it hasn't worked every time)I agree with the working thing - work is a godsend to me - I only work 1 day a week and it barely covers the childcare costs but I can be calm and it helps, so much

I too have been avoiding posting on here but it has struck such a cord with me

I too get very irritated with my children and have felt exactly the way many on here do in various extremes

I love my children but hate the way i feel towards them sometimes, not all the time its good at the moment but i never know how long it will last before i become the mummy from hell again

My mum was very much like this too and how ever much i try i just don't seem to be able to stop it, i really don't want to go to the gp but was beginning to think i may have to before i ruin my childrens memories of their childhood - i want them to be happy and have good memories of growing up rather than having a grumpy mummy shouting at them. I have very few memories of my childhood as i seem to have blocked most of them out, my sister will say things to me and i won't remember at all (my siser is also the same as me with parenting but did get help from the gp although has since come off her ad's)

I'm still working my through this thread but have found reading other people experiences and advice quite liberating actually, its good to know i'm not the only one and also that so many of you have some wonderful advice to give