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I'm so viscious towards my children. I feel so much venom towards them.

378 replies

RedMist · 07/01/2008 22:55

Name change regular.

I love my kids. They make me smile and proud.

Sometimes though, they drive me nuts. Actually, a lot of the time they drive me nuts. Like I have no time for them and they are nothing but an embuggarance. I wish they'd just leave me alone.

They mither for food and sweets a lot.

They prod, poke and provoke each other.

They trash every room, indeed even little corners I've just managed to organise or tidy. We live in a shit tip, no matter how long I spend clearing up & cleaning.

My son is 6.5 My daughter is 4.5.

I've started to lash out, really visciously. Tonight, I smacked my son across his face because he;d pushed his sister when he'd walked in the room. Then I started pushing him and saying "How do you like it eh? How do you like it when a bigger person pushes you around?"

Then I sent them to bed and refused to kiss my son good night. I was still shaking with anger at him for deliberately being a little shit.

My daughter pushes my buttons as well. She snaps and snarls and is deliberately rude, to gain attention. She whines and whines until my head feels like it's exploding.

I've read the parenting books. I know the right way to discipline. I just seem to have lost the ability to do it. I'm irrational and short-fused when ever the children are around.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I like this?

I went to GP and he gave me fluxatine (sp?) - basically, prozac. It zonked me out so I stopped it.

Where do I turn to next. What shall I do?

I'm married and my DH helps with the children but he's quite untidy as well - simple DIY jobs for example, always end up with every tool and all the associated crap, just left lying around, waiting for me to clear them away. So that just adds to everything.

I need answers Mumsnet, or at least a place to start resolving this.

Any advice?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
RedMist · 08/01/2008 18:48

No, I don't drink. Well, very occasionally but I've found I'm a bit crap at it. I get tipsy and fall asleep and then I'm buggered for the following day.

I have a little list of things I'm going to talk to my GP about. One of the first things is counselling.KerryMum bought up the subject of my mother and I've always felt I was cool about it but then when another couple of posters mentioned it, I started to wonder.

I don't work either. MorningPaper has talked about going out to work a couple of days a week and it helping to restore some balance. I have the opportunity to do a couple of days for DH's business. I think I need to.

I don't think the housework/cleaning is at the crux of it either F&Z. I think there is a control thing going on (I can't remember who said that, I'll go back down the thread in a minute to see) I just operate better all round when things around me are orgainsed but, as someone pointed out, when you have children, you have to let some of it go.

The GP is pretty open minded and easy to talk to (he has 4 kids himself), so I'm hoping for a positive response from him on this. I'm also scared though!

OP posts:
rubydiamond · 08/01/2008 18:51

Redmist.

I am so sorry for you, it must be awful.
However, i wouldn't go down the anti-depressant route if at all possible, as its very hard to come off them. I think the posts that have given you an insite into how it feels as a child, are constructive. I was terribly abused as a child, although 25 odd years ago, smacking children was almost the norm. Its frightening. i hope you go for the counselling, and good luck. (sorry haven't read all thread, so sorry if i'm repeating what others have said)

FrannyandZooey · 08/01/2008 18:51

Yes it is control, I recognise such a lot of myself in your posts so it jumped out at me

if you can work out why you need to have such control then it will help you with all aspects of your life

things like getting the housework under control can help in the short term but it is just not possible to keep that up day after day with 2 young children in the house

also it is a symptom of your disease so to speak, trying to cure that in isoation will not cure you

good luck with it, I struggle with similar things myself, but self-knowledge is immensely helpful

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Wisteria · 08/01/2008 18:53

I think counselling would really help you, as would going out for a walk or a run in the morning to boost your energy levels.

If you can get a pt job it will help to relieve the mundaneness of life at home

I had a very similar problem when mine were toddlers and it all goes back to my controlling violent father, low self esteem - I still lose the plot and get angry but I can control it now as I know where it comes from and don't want my dds to grow up the same as me! (Not in that way anyway)...

trulymadlydeeply · 08/01/2008 19:11

Redmist,

I think you're really brave for admitting what you did. Parenting is the hardest job in the world, especially when you have no respite from it.

There have been some brilliant posts here, and I think you need to congratulate yourself for being courageous enough to start a thread like this one, and then to follow some of the advice on offer to get you started.

Good luck with your journey to fully enjoying your dcs again - and keep us posted.

Thanks to other posters for all the tips - there's something for every parent to use!

LittleBella · 08/01/2008 19:44

That is very interesting what you say about housework F&Z. I am horribly disorganised and feel out of control and when I've cleaned the whole house and the place is clean and tidy, I feel calm and happy and am determined to maintain it. It's like tidiness = serenity. It lasts about 5 minutes before it gets trashed again and I feel agitated about it.

I think you've hit on something, but I'm not quite sure what!

scattyspice · 08/01/2008 20:23

What a fantastic thread.

Redmist you have clearly been at the end of your tether. God knows we've all been there to a degree which is why it scares us so much.

The honesty of the posts on here have been truely helpful.

I agree re housework, I spent Xmas holidays trying to keep the house tidy (as lots of visitors) it was truely exhausting and made me very irritable indeed (so I gave up).

Lisa's tip about just controlling one area is a good one (I have an immaculate, fabulously designed mantlepiece!).

Also getting away for a few mins, I lock myself in the bathroom and put on my make up every morning to step out from the morning chaos.

I like the film crew idea. Someone told me once to pretend to be the child minder (not the Mam), it really helped me through the terrible twos!!

Also make sure you have a little money and a little time for yourself.

Good luck Redmist

tunise · 08/01/2008 20:32

There's some great advice on this thread, i'm sure it will help an awful lot of 'not perfect but trying hard parents.'
Good luck to you redmist.

FrannyandZooey · 08/01/2008 20:53

well I mean Little Bella obviously most of us DO find it calming and pleasant to live in a tidy house, and less pleasant to live in dirt and disorder

but there is often so much more going on there and I am firmly of the opinion that one's house is very frequently a metaphor for one's inner state

you may remember that life laundry program - people always uncovering huge skeletons in their closet that had made them let their houses get to such disarray

getting very uptight about mess in the house and feeling angry and depressed when it is untidy, is a big sign of control issues IMO

you can tidy the house but peace of mind will not follow until you can put the deeper stuff to rest

loobylolly · 08/01/2008 20:54

RedMist, so much of what you say could have been written by me. Not the house - I have low standards there - but my DS 9 and DD 5 drive me insane. I got to the point with DS that I yanked a handlful of his hair and physically pushed him out of the house, saying he had to disappear for 10 minutes for his own safety. After I'd calmed down I was devastated and ashamed, but recognised that we could get there again. (I was already successfully on 10 mg of cipralex - an AD - a day, so it wasn't depression.)

There's been lots of good advice on here, lots of which I look forward to using. What I did in my circumstances was write a list of rules and went through them with the children. They are stuck on our fridge and in the children's bedrooms. It helped on lots of levels, DS understood, DD sort of got the idea, I understood that before then although I knew what the rules were, nobody had articulated them to the children, and best of all I reminded myself that I was the grown up and had to behave like one. It helps me to keep a grip. Just in case they might be of use to anyone else, here are our rules (very sorry it's so long):

GENERAL PRINCIPLES

? The grown ups are in charge. The grown ups love the children and want what?s best for them. The children do not always understand this or believe it but that doesn?t matter.

? Fun stuff (including playdates, parties, TV, computer, PSP, football, rugby etc and anything else the children enjoy) are treats, not entitlements.

? We have family rules. They are for everyone?s benefit and everyone has to live by them.

? If the rules are broken then there will be consequences and treats may get taken away, at the discretion of the grown ups.

? The grown ups can make new rules or change the rules whenever they want.

THE RULES

 We respect the grown ups, who are in charge. We listen to them when they are talking, and we respond appropriately. We do as we are told without complaining. We do not answer back.

 We do not behave violently or aggressively. This includes hitting, punching, kicking, pushing, screaming, yelling etc and also threatening behaviour.

 We use good manners. We ask nicely for things and we thank people when they have done something for us. We sit at the table and eat nicely at mealtimes. We wait until it is our turn to speak. We do not interrupt each other and especially we do not interrupt someone on the telephone.

 We communicate nicely and use nice language. We do not swear or say rude things or call each other names. We do not shout. (Mummy will find this one tough.) We talk in a pleasant tone of voice.

 We treat each other kindly. We care about each other?s feelings. We are not mean or unkind to or about each other. We look after each other and try to make sure that everyone is happy. We do not touch each other?s things without permission.

 We do not whinge. If we have something to say, we say it in a big grown up voice. Especially, we do not whinge about going in to school.

 We do not lie. Especially, we do not lie about our behaviour and whether we have broken The Rules. Lying is worse than just breaking the rules in the first place and it makes grown ups furious.

 We take responsibility for our behaviour. We understand that there are consequences for breaking The Rules. If we do break The Rules, we accept the consequences without lying or complaining (though we are welcome to negotiate in a grown up manner).

 We understand that although other people annoy us sometimes, we probably annoy them too. In a family, everyone has to put up with everyone else and get along together.

 The grown ups are in charge.

Quattrocento · 08/01/2008 20:58

Nothing to add to what the other posters have said - except to thank you for a good thread, RedMist.

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 21:15

you are brave redmist.

nothing to add except the ADs: if prozac doesn't agree with you, don't go back on it. try something else, AND/OR get some counselling. sounds as if you need some space that is yours to vent in badly, and counselling is that as well as many other things.

you are not alone in dismissing your childhood as fine when it patently wasn't at all. lots and lots of people do that....

it wasn't, you cannot but have been deeply wounded both by your mothers' alcolholism and her death at a terribly vulnerable age for you. you need some help with these issues....YOU need support in order to be able to support your children. now whether that support comes from the church, your friends, self help in terms of exercise or my preferred option alongside any or all of these, counselling, you need it as a mantra: you need to be supported, you need to support yourself if you are to support your children.

gosh that was quite a lot to add wasn't it?

good luck, sounds like you've made huge strides to me.

Mog · 08/01/2008 21:22

Fantastic looby. That's a great list and a great way to turn around a situation. You sound like a great mum.

EdieMcredie · 08/01/2008 21:27

Im obviously not concentrating-I actually thought you had 'Location Location' filming you

Well done, you have an incredible insight.

Dottydot · 08/01/2008 21:34

Redmist - just seen this thread and already it sounds like you've really turned the corner.

I can relate to a lot of what you've been saying. I've just started on Prozac - my red mist's been descending at work though, not on the kids - great for them but not so good for me if I want to keep my job! I've been on it for two weeks and am already feeling a lot more balanced, less stressed, less edgy.

I also notice that when I'm very anxious and stressed I tend to obsess about the house and how tidy/clean it is. I try then to confine my tidiness to one or two rooms which are toy free and I get ds's to help tidy them before bathtime/bedtime each evening.

When I've lost the plot with ds's, (which happens, as dp works in the evenings so I regularly do teatime, bathtime and bedtime on my own and it's the worst time of day for me when I'm just home from work, on my own and knowing I've got to do a load more work when they're in bed), I always apologise to them at bedtime. Even if it was 'their fault' - I'm the grown up and should be able to cope. I'll apologise for shouting, tell them I love them and let's have a better day tomorrow. Always try to end the day as well as you can - even if you don't feel like it!

Good luck and keep posting - this thread has also been really useful for me as a reminder when the mist starts descending.

gingerninja · 08/01/2008 22:03

Really interesting thread and a lot rings true. Thankfully I haven't got physical but I've wanted to at times. I think you're really brave redmist and I thankyou for writing this thread as it's given me real food for thought.

For me, my anger is generally twofold. One part of it is definately control. I need to have a sense of achievement (don't ask me why) and the days when I'm firefighting all the time and feel that my day/ life is out of my control, I am very stressed and liable to go pop if at the same time my DD is being particularly clingy or 'difficult'. (I generally take it out on DH but have been known to shout at DD)

The other day I was lurking on the "But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families" I guess I worry about becoming more physical (my mother was and sometimes my anger scares me) and there was a really interesting post on there which quoted the continum concept which, when I read it, was like someone had slapped me in the face. I'll try and explain why, although it might not make sense.

It went like this

"The parent, says Kempe, 'who lacks mothering herself is incapable of mothering her child but expects the child to be capable of loving her: she expects more than a baby is capable of and she sees its crying as rejection. He quoted an intelligent, educated mother saying, 'When he cried, it meant he didn't love me, so I hit him'."

"The expectation that her search for love will be rewarded at last by her own love-needy infant is the tragedy of many a woman. And of course it is a looming factor in the quality of deprivation suffered by the child. NOt only is a great deal of the necessary loving and attention denied, but the child is competing for it against a bigger and stronger person. What could be more pathetic than a child crying for want of mothering and the mother striking out at it because it is not mothering her in answer to her longing.

I think there is definately an element of this in my feeling of frustration. I have just recognised recently that I get really irritated when DD is particularly needy and clingy and I have 'things to do' (the control freekery thing such as cleaning which is code for feeling ordered) and after reading this passage I started to think that it might be the fact that I was feeling a bit out of control and 'needy' and therefore couldn't address my DD's needs until my own (ie cleaning) were addressed. I've talked this through with my DH and he's aware that I can't relax until I feel the house is in some kind of order so is very supportive.

Does that make sense? It's helping me just writing it down. However, I've only got the one and she's very young yet so perhaps not as challenging as yours. Thankfully I feel more 'in control' following the threads on MN and feel more confident that I can address the issue myself.

welliemum · 08/01/2008 22:20

Interesting, F&Z, because I have a slightly different take on control/tidiness.

I think I'm quite a control-y person and I hate sitting in the midst of chaos and mess, so I do fit your description. But once the house is basically tidy, I relax and feel calm.

As far as I can tell (speaking just for myself) I don't think my wish for tidiness comes from "issues" as such, more a recognition that my surroundings quite strongly influence my mood. Some people are oblivious - I'm not.

So [wrenches attention from own navel and back onto thread] given that I have small children who create huge mess, I've found it very helpful to have good housework strategies.

FWIW the main ones are:

  1. Storage: A place for everything and everything in its place. The aim is to be able to tidy any room in about 2 minutes by quickly chucking things in baskets and boxes.
  2. Tidy once a day (for me, around 6pm). Any more than that and it feels like a hamster wheel and is devastating when the children turn it all upside down again.

I'm not suggesting at all that the OP just needs to sort out her housework and she'll live happily every after. It's just that if you identify something that stresses you, it makes sense to address that. In the same way, if I get a stone in my shoe, I don't try and reconcile myself to the stone. I just deal with it.

Redmist - this is a very, very good thread. Wishing you the best of luck.

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 23:00

absolutely ginganinja. the injured child in the mother, cannot, just cannot mother her own child and in fact needs to be mothered by the child. and so the cycle goes on, until something or someone breaks it. like redmist will if she carries on going like this.

Prufrock · 08/01/2008 23:06

I have to disagree with just one thing sophable said. Whilst it is important to break this cycle for your children, it's also important to break it for you. Early in my therapy I was explaining that I felt I had to do this (get better mentally and emotionally) because I owed it to my kids not to be like my stepmum, I owed it to them to be better parent and give them a perfect childhood. So just one more manifestation of my control-freaky perfectionism. And she just asked why I felt o strongly that I didn't deserve to do this just so I could feel better. And I cried. For pretty much the whole session.

It's not nice living with rage and anger. It's not nice for your kids sure, but it's also not very nice for you. And you don't have to do it.

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 23:08

i didn't say she shouldn't do it for herself did i??? that is the biggest reason to do it. for the woman herself....

prufrock sounds like you have a good therapist....

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 23:10

ah yes support yourself to support your children.

well, corrected pru, only lots of people cannot hear that they need to do it for themselves at the beginning, and it is easier to take on board that it is imperative for in order to be able to caregive loved ones.

you are totally right though. redmist, the person you really need to do this all for is you.

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 23:11

i mean well corrected pru.

no comma.

grrr, my writing is just getting worse and worse on here.

onebatmother · 08/01/2008 23:14

ginganinja, have not heard that expressed so succinctly before.. stops me dead in my tracks.

I am with FandZ and all those who recommend psychotherapy (or a very good counsellor - some are basically voluntary workers who shouldn't be let anywhere near an actual real mind imo)

For your children, for you. Prufrock, I remember a very similar moment of wailing astonishment at being 'allowed'.

onebatmother · 08/01/2008 23:17

btw I had a fantastic afternoon with kids, farting about. Osmosis, I htink.

Heathcliffscathy · 08/01/2008 23:25

a lot of psychotherapists refer to themselves as counsellors you know....makes people less scared....

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