Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Original poster

3 year old up 'till 3/4am

169 replies

Cait73 · 23/10/2021 01:36

Previously pretty good sleeper we're now going to bed but getting up at 11pm staying awake 'till 3/4am

Apart from the obvious effects 2 hours sleep is having on me, he's super grumpy all day because he's tired

He's not had a daytime nap since he turned 2 and he was sleeping 6pm to 6am

Any ideas? I've tried being super boring ie just walking him back to his room, I've tried leaving the radio on quiet I've tried lying with him, anything I do works for 15/20 mins then he's up again

OP posts:
Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 08:43

@MyOtherProfile just put in a call to his GP waiting for call back

OP posts:
Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 08:44

@Phineyj thank you for that, I'll have a look in a minute

OP posts:
Smurf123 · 15/11/2021 08:53

@Cait73 we have a baby gate on my 3 year olds bedroom door it was literally the only way to keep him in his room. He goes to bed at 630/7 we read a story with his star projector on and then put on an audio book (stars stay on for a few hours on a timer) then I say night night and leave generally he will get down and play with toys for a while before climbing back into bed. He sometimes will wake during the night but will now accept the stars and audio book being put back on and stay in his bed he tends to fall asleep to it then. Up for the day between 6-630. The stair gate means at least I can rest knowing he's in a safe place.
This is where we have gotten to now a year ago it was much more like what your describing. Hw was annoyed at the gate at first and then when he realised it wasn't going anywhere after a couple of weeks he seemed to decide he may as well just stay in bed. Good luck

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

3 year olds Babies & sleep Children's sleep Families
Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 09:51

@Smurf123 I might try a gate but I'm a very light sleeper and he comes straight through to me but yes, to keep him in his room it might be the answer?

I've tried light projectors he now says they're scary and audio stories, nursery rhymes/lullabies, classical music, soothing music even the radio on very low is all "too noisy"

I previously mentioned I've had to strip his room because he's decided he's scared of so many things I've just had to take it back to the bare minimum; bed and a few books which is pretty sad but I don't know what else to do

I have literally tried everything except the wake to sleep

OP posts:
Phineyj · 15/11/2021 10:30

It sounds like anxiety, doesn't it. I should reread your earlier posts, but have you tried co-sleeping? This definitely helps our DD but we try to only do it if desperate, as awful for us!

Phineyj · 15/11/2021 10:31

A stair gate is not going to help anxiety.

Phineyj · 15/11/2021 10:38

Have you tried a weighted blanket?

Phineyj · 15/11/2021 10:39

Also sounds odd but tight nightwear - those 'skins' they sell for PE are comforting for our daughter.

Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 10:46

@Phineyj I think I've covered my immense efforts at co sleeping (which I have absolutely no objection to) even had him in bed with me 3-4am but he just pulls my hair, face, clothes then the wriggling starts!

Also tried tight (er) pyjamas no luck

Just spoke to the GP who thinks this is all connected to his Dad not turning up for contact 6/7 weeks ago. I'm in touch with the children's centre so will chase them up today to get him therapy, the GP has prescribed something to try getting him back into routine.

He was previously a pretty decent sleeper I'm really hoping a few assisted days will get him back into his happy sleep routine

And obviously play therapy for his tiny troubled mind, I can't discuss this as it's breaking my heart just the thought of him being this upset

OP posts:
Smurf123 · 15/11/2021 11:01

If it's anxiety could you try a special teddy? I gave my son my old teddy I had as a child and told him it was mummy's special teddy and if he was missing me or needed a hug he could hug special teddy and she'd give him a hug from me... It was a spur of the moment it's 3am please go to sleep thing. I didn't think much of it but then a few months later I ended up unexpectedly in hospital for a week and my mum was minding him in our house and one night he told her this is my special teddy if I give it a hug it gives me a hug from mummy. So he had obviously been taking it in.
There's a few good books you could read with him too - there's no such thing as monsters by Steve smallman is a good one we got it from the works. Also the big bag of worries might be good.

When I said stair gate I meant it if he was happy and content simply not sleeping. I always go to my son if he's upset but he likes to play before going to sleep and with the stair gate I know he's safe. His room is child proofed. If he wakes during the night he would call me. But it works for us to not have the battle of you must stay in bed. Instead I will say to him that's OK if you aren't tired right now but the sun isn't up yet (his groclock) so you can play quietly in your bedroom or you can go back to sleep. For us it took the argument away and after a few days of playing he decided that actually he was tired and would sleep.

Audio book wise I tried relaxing ones and sleepy ones and ds didn't like them but he loves paw patrol and we ended up with a few of them so he listens to them.

It sounds like there's more going on for your grandson though than simply being awake/ wanting to play.

It might be worth asking for a cahms referral - the waiting list is usually long but at least you'd be on it in case it's still an issue in a year or so. Or referral to play therapy. It might help him process things like his dad missing contact etc.

Do you have any support from social services still? Sometimes there's easier access to support through them as a child in care.

Smurf123 · 15/11/2021 11:04

Cross posted op, I'm glad the gp got back to you hopefully it will help.

Being 3 is hard at the best of times. You should like an amazing grandparent and he will grow up knowing how much you care, love and support him.

SheWoreYellow · 15/11/2021 11:06

I haven’t read the whole thread, but to focus on you getting more sleep I’d eat with him, then go to bed properly at 7pm.

Phineyj · 15/11/2021 11:39

Yes that sounds familiar and it's why we only do it as a last resort. Play therapy might be good. We've found it helpful.

SnugKnights · 15/11/2021 12:22

I really hope the GP’s suggestion works for him OP! Sleep deprivation is definitely the hardest thing for me about being a parent. My 3 yr old needs 11.5/12hrs sleep a night still and begs to go to bed at 5.00pm if we’ve had a late night the day before for some reason, bonfire night was the last one and there were lots of tears the next day. Some kids do need that much sleep, my eldest however has ASD and needs nowhere near that much and never has. They’re all different of course. It sounds like he’s a very lucky boy to have a brilliant Grandmother who loves him so much. I hope things improve for you both very soon and his Dad stops letting him down!

RandomMess · 15/11/2021 16:46

Wouldn't be the main answer but have you a weighted blanket?

I agree with a special cuddly toy that is very much included in every bit of life and smells of you that he sleeps with, takes to nursery etc etc.

Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 17:58

@RandomMess I've considered a weighted blanket but he doesn't like the weight of his cot blanket I'm forever covering him up!

He doesn't have a specific cuddly but he's got a well loved blanket that's carted everywhere, he's only just stopped taking it to nursery but looks for it as soon as he gets gone, he's wrapped up in it now fast asleep

OP posts:
Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 18:00

@SnugKnights everyone says he goes to bed too early but he always has, anything after 5pm is a struggle I can just about keep him going 'till 6 but that really is it

OP posts:
SnugKnights · 15/11/2021 20:55

[quote Cait73]@SnugKnights everyone says he goes to bed too early but he always has, anything after 5pm is a struggle I can just about keep him going 'till 6 but that really is it [/quote]
That’s what made me comment, I understand people suggesting you try to keep him up later, but it’s so hard when they’re begging to go to bed, it feels cruel! My eldest who has ASD is better with a weighted blanket, but the recommendation is that you don’t leave it in them once they asleep for safety (especially at his age) so I don’t think that would help.
I wonder if you might be able to find a sleep consultant who has experience of children with anxiety, who have a difficult start to life. They might have some ideas to help him.
I really hope things improve for you both OPFlowers

Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 21:29

@SnugKnights thank you, we've been referred to Early Help so hopefully little love will get to see a paediatrician, in the meantime I'm going to give the health visitor hub a ring they might be able to see us sooner?

I'm just about over the supercold now so better equipped to tackle the toddlers daytime meltdowns I feel so sorry for him because I know he's exhausted too

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/11/2021 21:40

What happens if he has a 10 minute car nap at 4.30/5pm?

Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 21:53

@RandomMess I haven't tried it we have dinner 4:30 ish

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/11/2021 21:55

Perhaps it's worth a go, earlier if you can tbh.

EnglishRose1320 · 15/11/2021 22:09

My ds has very complex sleep issues, currently waiting for a referral to a sleep centre. He has however had the odd better patch. At that age the only thing that would work would be taking him back to his room, then I would have to sit in the doorway of his room, with my head down and just remain still until he settled again.
If I interacted with him, he would take hours to settle. The sitting still still took a good while but not quite as long.

Now at 16 he can manage being awake at night on his own, but he probably didn't start managing that until about 14 and even now we have patches where his anxiety is too high for him to manage alone.

6hrs sleep is a good night for me, primary school and younger it was 4-5hrs. Less than that felt brutal and I hated those patches so I really do empathise and hope you get some help soon.

Original poster
Cait73 · 15/11/2021 22:57

@RandomMess I get him from preschool 3 times a week at 3 it's a lovely decent drive home but he talks and sings the whole way, when we get in I try to settle him for rest if not a nap but we have a puppy and they're always ridiculously excited to see each other!!

His optimal nap time would be 1-2pm but he's just not interested, living with your manna's great you can rarely do any wrong, he's certainly got me sussed!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/11/2021 23:00

Urgh.

I think I would put him to bed by 5pm then get him up after 10mins and have dinner etc and accept he won't settling again until 10pm- midnight but then you will get a solid chunk?

I remember a couple of mine having naps at the weekends way past being 3!