3 year old up 'till 3/4am

[Cait73]

Previously pretty good sleeper we're now going to bed but getting up at 11pm staying awake 'till 3/4am

Apart from the obvious effects 2 hours sleep is having on me, he's super grumpy all day because he's tired

He's not had a daytime nap since he turned 2 and he was sleeping 6pm to 6am

Any ideas? I've tried being super boring ie just walking him back to his room, I've tried leaving the radio on quiet I've tried lying with him, anything I do works for 15/20 mins then he's up again

And of course it would be more ideal for him to get all his sleep in one go - but realistically if you’re putting a child to bed at 6pm then it’s silly to expect them to sleep all the way until morning. It’s too long a time to be in bed, and rather than jumping to over the top solutions like melatonin a gp will suggest the obvious - put him to bed later.

@Kanaloa I tried for 4 days for 7pm bed time but it's a real struggle he starts melting down about 4:30 because he's SO tired, we're back to 6pm and even that's a struggle

Hi Op. 6pm is so early to me for bedtime but then we are too much the other way 🙈...my 3.11 DD goes to bed at 8:30-8:45pm and that's a good night but she is also regularly up for up to an hour at night. I go into her bed or she comes into ours and eventually we all get some sleep there. When she was younger I sometimes slept on an inflatable mattress in her room for a few hours. Not ideal suggestions but would any of these work for you?
Some children still need a nap until about age 4. Could you take him out in the car some afternoons after lunch and let him have half an hour? Then bedtime will naturally be a little later and you may get a good chunk of sleep.

Can you try moving his dinner back? I realise it isn’t fun if he’s over tired and stressed out but sometimes you need to push through that. Or let him fall asleep at 4/4.30 when he’s tired for an hour, wake him up and see if he’ll sleep again at 7.30.

Rather than pushing an hour try 10min blocks-ie 6.10 tonight 6.20 the next. Afternoon snuggle time-he might have a quick snooze. Supper/snack with protein as late as you can.

I'm going to REALLY try pushing bedtime back I do more with him 5-7pm than I do all day to keep him going he's unbearable and if I take my eyes off him he just goes to bed!

But I'm going to really try, make it routine

Has anyone had any success with grow clocks?

Just to UPDATE we've done a lot of things (emptied his room, pushed back bed time etc etc) but had the grow clock one night and he slept through, woke me up at 6:45 to tell me it's gone yellow, it's waking up time

First full nights sleep in nearly 5 weeks, thank you everyone for all your suggestions

Hurrah!

Hopefully tonight you can push bedtime back to 7 as he won't be over tired?

Wow you're doing an amazing job. Utterly exhausting.

That's great news! Well done.

Brilliant news.

@RandomMess

Hurrah!

Hopefully tonight you can push bedtime back to 7 as he won't be over tired?

We're at 6:30 so next 2 days 6:45 then yes 7pm

As the parent of a rather similar child, hats off to you. She's nearly 9 now and she does benefit from the dreaded melatonin (and has ADHD). But we didn't know any of that when she was 3. Now she's older she can describe the problem, which is that she feels tired but can't switch her brain off.

Just a suggestion: write down what the difficulties are, what you did and what happened. It's a good way to spot patterns. I found a notepad recently from when my DD was 3 and was pleased to see we'd solved 3 of 6 main sleep difficulties. So only about 1 every 2 years, but I'll take it!

@Phineyj I fostered him before I got full custody I've always kept records, haven't had to for nearly a year now but I still do it's SO useful

He's slept for 2 nights, he's been up the last 3 I'm at my wits end NOTHING WORKS

I am actually ill from lack of sleep, he's horrible all day because he's tired and I don't know how long I can go on like this

Sorry this sounds so tough.

Can you write out what his day routine looks like in terms of wake up and sleep times and also food? It’s easy for people to recommend an ideal routine but when it gets messed up by a bad night the tricky thing is how to transition back to the good habits.

If he has a horrendous night where he’s up loads then I personally would try letting him have a short sleep when you pick him up at 3.30. Can you take a buggy for pick up and let him snooze on the way home?

That way you will be able to get him to a more reasonable bedtime and also ensure he is eating a decent amount later in the day. They’re awful when they’re overtired and often won’t eat enough but then he is probably hungry when he’s up in the night. But it’s not a good habit to start giving him food at 2am.

I know others have mentioned night time sleep hygiene etc but how firm are you bring with this? When he’s awake what actually happens? Walk us through it.

Also while he is still going through this phase I think you need to go to bed earlier than 11pm to stop yourself from getting ill. It sucks but maybe try to go back to the whole “sleep while the baby sleeps” motto!!

Thank you for replying, at the moment I'm sleeping 7-9pm because as soon as he's asleep I sit down and crash, I don't even have dinner

I fall asleep whenever I sit down so I try not to

He eats well, mostly home made single ingredient foods he also has "free foods" so things he can help himself too this is chopped up fruit, vegetable sticks, raisins things like this

He eats a lot of yoghurt (which I know contains sugar but this is really the only "bad" thing he eats)

Drinks are water and full fat milk

He won't nap, I've tried, even "quiet time" doesn't work during the day

So this morning he came in at 3:30 and got into bed with me we had an hour of him kicking me, pulling my face, hair, clothes before I took him back to bed, by now I'm wide awake

I have to physically put him into bed I try to snuggle him down but he argues with me every step of the way

I go back to bed, before I've even pulled the covers over me he's back

5:30am and I'm just getting back into bed for what feels like the 20th time since 2am

I'm now wide awake but so exhausted I can barely see, no wait that's just the tears

I'm so sorry. This is unsustainable. Sorry if I missed it but I think you need to speak to your GP if you haven't already.

HI OP, you need to work on that day time nap. Even if it 30 mins. Do you have a car? if so get him in it and wack the heating up after he has eaten some thing. I think he is way over tired going to bed.

Try wake to sleep it was really effective for mine.

The idea is that they are waking up out of pure habit. Time when he wakes up. Then the next night go in and gently disturb him 15/20 mins before he is due to wake up, this sends him back in to another sleep cycle. Repeat for 4 nights.

We got from a 12am and 3am wake up to 7pm - 5.30am sleep and I was more than happy for that!

You absolutely need to speak to the GP and HV.

Do speak to GP and if you can keep your eyes open, there is sleep advice on the website of the PDA society that might be helpful. I'll try to find a link.

www.addiss.co.uk/sleepseekersbooklet.pdf this is the one.

I liked the graphs on page 4 particularly. They made me feel less alone.