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Original poster

Baptisms without consent...

159 replies

LC09122126 · 03/09/2021 14:35

New here and a First time poster and trying to find that AIBU section... I can't so here goes!

I've been separated from my child's father since last summer. Plans to have a christening were in place prior to us separating and COVID came and shit all over our plans. Ex was fine with me wanting to christen the little one when we were together (probably because he knew my family would mostly foot the bill, the absolute bum) He understood I was brought up in a close knit, church attending, large catholic family and was happy for this to be the way forward, with far better schooling prospects in the area where I live for the future.
I haven't discussed it yet, but I KNOW he will now refuse just to throw a spanner in the works.
It would make no odds to him either way, but he would do it to be awkward.
A: Can I do it without his consent? And B: Does anyone think I'm being unreasonable for wanting to do it that way?
Thanks in advance x

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:17

The bad relations boat has sailed. They are separated. He had agreed to the baptism and plans were afoot before covid struck.

MsTSwift · 04/09/2021 07:18

Notice none of the Christians have responded to my point that it’s not very Christian loving and giving type behaviour to wilfully ignore the wishes of one of the parents and proceed anyway because it suits your own agenda ? 🙄

EmeraldGreenVelvet · 04/09/2021 07:22

The only people it matters to are those who would want it. If for example one parent had the child baptised at their church which meant the other no longer could

But how would the other church even know? I know a religious person would say God knows everything but as a non religious person I don't buy that! There's no official record of a baptism except within your church.

I am atheist and think the whole thing is a load of tosh and therefore wouldn't care if an estranged partner decided to baptise our baby in their own time. I would much rather it happened when they were a tiny baby than as an older child though as I wouldn't want the child to be indoctrinated or feel confused or worried about what was happening.

I wouldn't consent to Catholic schooling though, unless the alternative was really dire. That really is indoctrination of a child in my view.

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twinningatlife · 04/09/2021 07:23

This is all hypothetical excuses you haven't actually asked him about it yet so you could be worrying for no reason?

We were not married, because I don't conform to how he wants women to be.

But you had a child with him? Arguably more of a life long commitment than a marriage?

if I was your ex and was being obstructive I might raise the fact your beliefs weren't so important to you when you decided to have a child without being married? (Isn't it one of the biggest no nos in the Catholic faith?)

(Not judging by the way - I'm not religious but have seen this before where religion or lack of only comes into play when it suits one parent to punish/ go over the head of the other)

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:24

Notice none of the Christians have responded to my point that it’s not very Christian loving and giving type behaviour to wilfully ignore the wishes of one of the parents and proceed anyway because it suits your own agenda

@MsTSwift
What wishes?
He hasn't yet been formally consulted about the event.
However, he had agreed to a baptism before they separated.
Plans to have a christening were in place prior to us separating and COVID came and shit all over our plans. Ex was fine with me wanting to christen the little one when we were together (probably because he knew my family would mostly foot the bill, the absolute bum) He understood I was brought up in a close knit, church attending, large catholic family and was happy for this to be the way forward, with far better schooling prospects in the area where I live for the future.

He knew about her Catholic family background and her expectations for their child, and hadn't objected.
They had discussed baptism and planned it, along with a family party to celebrate.
They had discussed schools and were on the same page.

MsTSwift · 04/09/2021 07:25

I can totally see why a non believer would be upset. It’s an endorsement and introduction of your child into an organisation you disapprove of. Damn straight the other parent has the right to be furious.

lannistunut · 04/09/2021 07:25

@MsTSwift

Notice none of the Christians have responded to my point that it’s not very Christian loving and giving type behaviour to wilfully ignore the wishes of one of the parents and proceed anyway because it suits your own agenda ? 🙄
I know, this is what gets me!

I want to bring my child up in the teachings of the Christian faith and intend to get my own way by lying about it to the other parent Confused

It would be more consistent to simply live the teachings without the baptism.

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:26

if I was your ex and was being obstructive I might raise the fact your beliefs weren't so important to you when you decided to have a child without being married? (Isn't it one of the biggest no nos in the Catholic faith?)

You're about 50 years behind the times.

MsTSwift · 04/09/2021 07:27

I am not so much commenting on the minutia of this particular relationship but the (shocking) general view expressed on this thread that it’s ok for the religious person to press on with a baptism even if the other parent objects.

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:28

I can totally see why a non believer would be upset. It’s an endorsement and introduction of your child into an organisation you disapprove of. Damn straight the other parent has the right to be furious

@MsTSwift
The other parent in this case agreed to it before they separated, but don't let that stop you from making stuff up, while at the same time casting aspersions on the RC church for 'making stuff up'...

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:30

I am not so much commenting on the minutia of this particular relationship but the (shocking) general view expressed on this thread that it’s ok for the religious person to press on with a baptism even if the other parent objects.

General 'religious person' bashing then?

The thread is about a specific set of circumstances.

lannistunut · 04/09/2021 07:30

Many people go along with things when in a relationship that they don't once out of it. We really know very little about the relationship pre-separation.

MsTSwift · 04/09/2021 07:31

I haven’t said the church has “made stuff up” what are you on about?

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:44

I know they make all this nonsense up as they go along
is an example of the proposition that the RC church makes stuff up as they go along.

@MsTSwift
It wasn't you who said it, but I don't hear anyone reminding people using terms like 'tosh' etc of the British civic virtue of tolerance.

It is clear that there are plenty of 'agendas' to go round here.

@lannistunut
Whether you believe the OP when she says the ex agreed to everything she now wishes to proceed with is up to you. You could ask if you are curious about what happened or if you think more details on the ex's attitude to baptism, the RC church, etc would shed more light.
It's disingenuous to try to mould the thread into something that it is not.

TheReluctantPhoenix · 04/09/2021 07:50

I often find it curious how upset atheists are about things like baptisms.

Do they have a core of superstition or belief? Reading some posts, I suspect they do.

As another non-believer, I really don’t care about a morning in church singing and a bit of water. I have enough faith in my children’s critical faculties to allow them to make up their own minds.

MsTSwift · 04/09/2021 07:53

Not religion bashing just strongly disagree with the views expressed by some Christians on this thread that if you do not believe they you shouldn’t care if the believer ignores your view and gets your child baptised anyway without your consent. I think that’s very wrong and frankly unChristian not to say disrespectful and if churches collude in that I am shocked,

Callcat · 04/09/2021 07:57

It's just pretend magic though isn't it, unless you are the one who believes otherwise. What does it matter? I would give not two figs if exH baptised my DC, as long as they were brough back to me unharmed and not still dripping wet 😂

donquixotedelamancha · 04/09/2021 08:07

It would be more consistent to simply live the teachings without the baptism.

That's not how Catholicism works. There are certain spells (sacraments) which are essential to pass on the magic (grace).

Without Baptism the kid isn't Christian. Once Baptised, even if they don't follow the teachings properly, they are.

DoTheNextRightThing · 04/09/2021 08:17

@LaurieFairyCake

Seriously how is it wrong ???

Many things are wrong but this isn't one of them - it's just SYMBOLIC, it's not an actual thing like a vaccination or choosing a school or allowing your kid to take up boxing

I really want people to explain why it's WRONG and not just something they DON'T PREFER Confused

If it's so meaningless then why does baptism exist at all?

The problem isn't the water and the prayer, it's the perception from the Catholic Church that the child is now a member and should adhere to their beliefs. I wouldn't want my child in that situation.

Wallopbang · 04/09/2021 08:23

@MsTSwift So what you're saying then, is that as a Christian we should respect the wishes of a non-believer and not get our children baptised into the faith we'd been practicing all our lives? That they're views as a non-believer trumps ours as a believer?

Another poster hit the nail on the head saying the ex would just try to be a thorn in the OPs side. I can totally relate to that as the situation I found myself in was very similar. Ex would have (and still tries) to make everything as difficult as possible and it's always got to be on his terms.

All he was bothered about was having his massive family take up half the church (mine is tiny) to try and intimidate me probably, putting on a charade about how good a father he is (he's not) and choosing a Godparent. There's no way he could object to the ones I chose anyway for reasons I won't go into.

As Catholic's ourselves we had previously agreed on the baptism so for the reasons above I don't see what I did as wrong or 'un-Christianly'. He wasn't bothered or interested in religion whereas I'd been brought up to attend church and have a religious background.

It's easy to judge without knowing the full circumstances and speculate on what you should/shouldn't do.

It wasn't an issue for the Church so for me that's enough to know what I did wasn't wrong.

I can totally see OPs predicament and in her shoes would do it all over again.

ChocolateDeficitDisorder · 04/09/2021 08:24

but you really haven't a single clue if you can seriously announce it means nothing 🤦‍♀️

But, it really doesn't, not to the child involved. It's all in the heads of the adults.

twinningatlife · 04/09/2021 08:26

@mathanxiety

if I was your ex and was being obstructive I might raise the fact your beliefs weren't so important to you when you decided to have a child without being married? (Isn't it one of the biggest no nos in the Catholic faith?)

You're about 50 years behind the times.

And yet the Catholic faith hasn't updated its stance on children out of wedlock has it? It's still largely frowned upon isn't it?

It is also pretty un Christian like to lie and deceive the ex about having the baptism done? Doesn't exactly conform to Christian values?

twinningatlife · 04/09/2021 08:28

But then again it's the Catholic Church which forgives anything so a few Hail Marys and you'll be forgiven OP

underneaththeash · 04/09/2021 08:31

Since you've already mentioned it, just go ahead.

BTW as a previous poster said, most catholic schools require baptism at an early age.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 04/09/2021 08:45

And this is one of many reasons faith schools are a really bad idea.

Like others I struggle to understand that the OP has such a strong Catholic faith but planned to have a child outside marriage. Seems rather inconsistent.