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Parenting

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Baptisms without consent...

159 replies

LC09122126 · 03/09/2021 14:35

New here and a First time poster and trying to find that AIBU section... I can't so here goes!

I've been separated from my child's father since last summer. Plans to have a christening were in place prior to us separating and COVID came and shit all over our plans. Ex was fine with me wanting to christen the little one when we were together (probably because he knew my family would mostly foot the bill, the absolute bum) He understood I was brought up in a close knit, church attending, large catholic family and was happy for this to be the way forward, with far better schooling prospects in the area where I live for the future.
I haven't discussed it yet, but I KNOW he will now refuse just to throw a spanner in the works.
It would make no odds to him either way, but he would do it to be awkward.
A: Can I do it without his consent? And B: Does anyone think I'm being unreasonable for wanting to do it that way?
Thanks in advance x

OP posts:
HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 20:14

I know what I can do thank you very much. I've been an Atheist for long enough. You can stick your patronising twaddle where the sun doesn't shine.

GreyhoundG1rl · 03/09/2021 20:20

Well, that's both fucking rude and unnecessary.

HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 20:23

It wasn't supposed to be polite, rather like MathAnxiety's incredibly patronising post.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

ironorchids · 03/09/2021 20:23

If someone baptised my child without my consent or knowledge and I found out, that person would never be able to babysit my child again in their life (unless it was a partner who had a legal right to).

And if that person was not a relative, I would cut them off completely and stop being friends with them.

GreyhoundG1rl · 03/09/2021 20:24

How was it patronising? Your insistence that it's some dreadful burden you're forced to carry on your back forevermore is fairly weird, you know?

ManifestDestinee · 03/09/2021 20:27

Nobody is counting you as a member @HoldingTheDoor**

Except the Church. The church IS counting you as a member. That's the point. Some people mind about it.

ManifestDestinee · 03/09/2021 20:28

All man made, nothing to do with God

God (s)...also man made.

GreyhoundG1rl · 03/09/2021 20:29

@ManifestDestinee

All man made, nothing to do with God

God (s)...also man made.

Biscuit
HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 20:31

How was it patronising? Your insistence that it's some dreadful burden you're forced to carry on your back forevermore is fairly weird, you know?

I'm not the one believing in an imaginary being and living my life by his equally imaginary rules. That's weird.

jillandhersprite · 03/09/2021 20:38

Surely this is the discussion to be had with your priest. Ours is surprisingly pragmatic and he was happy to baptise my girls under unusual circumstances.
My gut feel would be to keep it a quiet basic ceremony - which I know is probably not what your family want - but for the sake of not causing problems with an awkward ex that's how I would do it. In my mind knowing that he was happy to consent while you were together, and now just is awkward to make your life difficult then I could live with it on my conscience. School applications are private and a while away anyway. Like many people say - the child makes her own decision as she grows up, there will be holy communion prep classes and then confirmation classes. As I understand there is no stigma if a child chooses not to want to go through because they don't feel its something they want to be part of, but as a parent in the faith its our choice to start that process early with a symbolic baptism.

annacondom · 03/09/2021 20:39

Um, OP I'm a Christian and in your shoes I would go ahead, if you think your ex would object just to throw a spanner in the works. (I also think infant baptism means nothing to the child. Being a Christian is about believing in and trying to emulate Christ, neither of which a baby is capable of doing.) But that's beside the point here - it means a lot to you and means nothing to your ex, so why not go ahead.

TartanJumper · 03/09/2021 20:53

Personally I don't agree with baptising/similar very young children; I think it should be done to adults who understand and consent to following the tenets of that church/religion.
That said, it's obviously a personal choice. But I do think both parents should agree.

MsTSwift · 03/09/2021 20:58

Not very “Christian behaviour” to barrel ahead and do what you want to do and sod the feelings of the other parent is it?🙄🙄

MsTSwift · 03/09/2021 21:04

Pretty shocking that these priests proceed without the consent of both parents. Very shady behaviour.

MurielSpriggs · 03/09/2021 22:58

@ironorchids

If someone baptised my child without my consent or knowledge and I found out, that person would never be able to babysit my child again in their life (unless it was a partner who had a legal right to).

And if that person was not a relative, I would cut them off completely and stop being friends with them.

I'm quite baffled by this. What harm has it possibly done your child?
MurielSpriggs · 03/09/2021 23:05

@ManifestDestinee

Not if the child dies! That's why infant baptism is important. Do a bit of research on limbo

You should probably do your own research there, cos limbo ceased to be a thing years ago. The Vatican decided all unbaptised babies go to heaven.

It didn't quite say that, apparently. It said that it didn't know. So better to baptise and be safe than to risk an eternity on the edge of hell.
mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 06:59

@ManifestDestinee
@HoldingTheDoor

The Guardian article HoldingTheDoor posted is clearly written by a very angry person intent on jousting windmills, who believes anyone cares about numbers of people baptised.

The author also seems to believe the RC church holds temporal power. This is revealed in the use of the Finnish example of deregistering form church membership. Finnish citizens who are members of either the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland or the Finnish Orthodox Church (the two Finnish national churches) see some of their taxes go to pay for their churches.

Yes, it certainly might be galling to unwillingly support an organisation you no longer felt yourself to be a member of. It's a real problem and hence the ability to deregister. It's also not at all analogous to the RC church. The Finnish national churches performed civil administration functions until the end of the 20th century, maintaining records of births, marriages, and deaths which are now undertaken by the state. There was a separate civil registration system for those who preferred not to consider themselves members of the two national churches during the 20th century.

The relevant elements of what the RC church does when faced with a demand for expunging the record of baptism is exactly what the Archdiocese in Australia did - noted on the record “Considers himself not a Catholic and wants not to be dealt with as one.”
That is absolutely all it can do. The rest of the disengagement is up to the individual who considers him or herself not a Catholic.

Renunciation forces the Catholic church to listen to what it refuses to hear: I reject your claim of authority over me. You cannot tell me what to do or think, how to live, whom I love or marry, what I do with my body. I am gone and you will do me this courtesy: stay the hell out of my life.

This is clearly very angry and it is also nonsense.
How free from any elements of a RC upbringing or education or immersion in RC culture an individual feels him or herself to be as a baptised Catholic is entirely up to him or her. Millions and millions of baptised Catholics all around the world feel themselves completely untrammeled by any strictures or claims of the Church.

You have free will. You are free to consider yourself not a Catholic. Nobody is forcing you to consider yourself one. Nobody is occupying your heart or your mind, making you do or think anything you don't want to do or think. In the words of the Bob Marley song, 'None but ourselves can free our minds'.

You can thumb your nose at whatever power you believe the RC church has.

You can thumb your nose at whatever power you believe the RC church believes it has.

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:01

The church IS counting you as a member. That's the point. Some people mind about it.

@ManifestDestinee
Exactly how does the church count anyone as a member, and exactly how does this matter?

lannistunut · 04/09/2021 07:03

It may be that the dh doesn't want his child to go to a Catholic school. Many people don't want this, for understandable reasons.

lannistunut · 04/09/2021 07:05

You have free will. You are free to consider yourself not a Catholic. Nobody is forcing you to consider yourself one. Nobody is occupying your heart or your mind, making you do or think anything you don't want to do or think.

Were you raised a Catholic @mathanxiety?

ManicPixie · 04/09/2021 07:09

@ManifestDestinee

Not if the child dies! That's why infant baptism is important. Do a bit of research on limbo

You should probably do your own research there, cos limbo ceased to be a thing years ago. The Vatican decided all unbaptised babies go to heaven.

That’s a relief. I know they make all this nonsense up as they go along but at least they’re no longer letting parents whose children die really young think they’re condemned to eternal agony.
mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:10

Yes I was raised a Catholic.

Nobody is occupying your heart or your mind, making you do or think anything you don't want to do or think - you are always going to have your parents' voices in your head to some extent, but there is nothing the RC church can do about that.

Mybalconyiscracking · 04/09/2021 07:12

I’m a Christian, both my girls were baptised but I wouldn’t have gone ahead if their father wasn’t keen.
Why not have the child blessed and then see what they want when they are old enough to make up their own mind about it?

mathanxiety · 04/09/2021 07:14

It may be that the dh doesn't want his child to go to a Catholic school. Many people don't want this, for understandable reasons.

It may well be that the exH is just a jerk whose mission in life is to be a thorn in the side of the mother of his child, and he actually couldn't care less where the child goes to school or how she or he spends his or her Sunday mornings.

From the OP:
"Plans to have a christening were in place prior to us separating and COVID came and shit all over our plans. Ex was fine with me wanting to christen the little one when we were together (probably because he knew my family would mostly foot the bill, the absolute bum) He understood I was brought up in a close knit, church attending, large catholic family and was happy for this to be the way forward, with far better schooling prospects in the area where I live for the future."

lannistunut · 04/09/2021 07:15

I would have no concern about parents' voices, but the parent is trying to get into a church school.

I'd be angry if my ex baptised my child without agreement and would see it as the start of very bad relations.

My position is that either religion is important or not - if it is not important the other parent can do without the baptism. If it is important - we need to agree.