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Original poster

Baptisms without consent...

159 replies

LC09122126 · 03/09/2021 14:35

New here and a First time poster and trying to find that AIBU section... I can't so here goes!

I've been separated from my child's father since last summer. Plans to have a christening were in place prior to us separating and COVID came and shit all over our plans. Ex was fine with me wanting to christen the little one when we were together (probably because he knew my family would mostly foot the bill, the absolute bum) He understood I was brought up in a close knit, church attending, large catholic family and was happy for this to be the way forward, with far better schooling prospects in the area where I live for the future.
I haven't discussed it yet, but I KNOW he will now refuse just to throw a spanner in the works.
It would make no odds to him either way, but he would do it to be awkward.
A: Can I do it without his consent? And B: Does anyone think I'm being unreasonable for wanting to do it that way?
Thanks in advance x

OP posts:
ItsDinah · 03/09/2021 18:26

It's a moot point if the priest will not agree to the baptism. It is a holy sacrament and not a social event. It has to be credible that you are sincere in your faith and intentions to raise the child in the Catholic faith. You need to speak to the priest about this. You won't be refused just because the father objects or the child was born out of wedlock or you've delayed in seeking baptism or haven't been a regular attender. Lying to the priest about the father is not a good idea.

MurielSpriggs · 03/09/2021 18:28

@ItsDinah

It's a moot point if the priest will not agree to the baptism. It is a holy sacrament and not a social event. It has to be credible that you are sincere in your faith and intentions to raise the child in the Catholic faith. You need to speak to the priest about this. You won't be refused just because the father objects or the child was born out of wedlock or you've delayed in seeking baptism or haven't been a regular attender. Lying to the priest about the father is not a good idea.
Even in the Catholic church baptism does not need to be done by a priest. Any baptised person can baptise another. ( Although they might have changed this too since I last went to mass in the age of steam!).
GreyhoundG1rl · 03/09/2021 18:30

Nope. Anyone can perform a baptism, it's not a sacrament which requires apostolic succession.
This is true.
It won't count for school admissions if it's done outside a church, though, and as op has bought her house to be in catchment for the outstanding Catholic schools, admissions are definitely a factor here.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families General parenting Philosophy & religion
donquixotedelamancha · 03/09/2021 18:43

It won't count for school admissions if it's done outside a church, though

Sure but my point was that things like catechism lessons aren't actually a requirement, just an expectation. I think a priest might insist on speaking to the father, if on the birth cert, but it's unlikely to be a uniform rule.

AnneElliott · 03/09/2021 18:44

I think you should do it. It's not as if he's a confirmed atheist with principled objections like lots of the OTT posters on this thread.

He agreed before so just go head and get it done, especially if you're going to take the child to church. Obviously school applications might be an issue but it depends on how involved and bothered he is then.

And I don't get how it's difficult to leave the RC Church. DS was baptised and received first holy communion and went to a RC Primary. He decided not to go to the RC secondary school, didn't get confirmed and hasn't darkened the doors of the church for several years - that's not been difficult at all. He also tells people he's an atheist if religion comes up - the preist isn't stalking us or anything Hmm

HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 18:50

And I don't get how it's difficult to leave the RC Church

Because people want to defect and make it official. Until you do, and it's extremely difficult, you'll still be counted as a member.

Pythonesque · 03/09/2021 19:11

If I were you I'd talk to your priest about the situation and be guided by what they say. If you are a regular church member, and especially as you'd started making arrangements previously, I would hope they would be sympathetic. But more to the point, they will have experience of all sorts of similar situations in the past and useful suggestions as to the best way to deal with it in your particular context.

I'm Church of England which I suspect has a history of being more flexible and realistic about stuff; but our vicar was fine with us involving an atheist as "godmother" given our own church involvement (and our siblings, also church going, are the other godparents to that child).

To those who've expressed concern about the whole concept of infant baptism and consent of the child: Denominations that practice infant baptism include a process of confirmation - which is the opportunity for a teenager / young adult to confirm and make for themselves, the promises made by their parents and godparents at their baptism. Personally I like the idea of formally welcoming children into the church through baptism, it is part of making a commitment to bring a child up in your religion so that they have a basis on which to decide about it when they are older. (both my children chose to be confirmed at their first opportunities, rather younger than many age 11 and 12, but definitely of their own volition)

Having said all that - OP, please don't despair if it all falls apart. You are clearly going to bring your child up in your faith and if the "outer signs" are missed I don't think that will matter to God one little bit. I'd pray that it works out in the right way for your child and then turn it over to Him!

ManicPixie · 03/09/2021 19:22

@MurielSpriggs

You can always baptise tomorrow, but you never unbaptise tomorrow.

Not if the child dies! That's why infant baptism is important. Do a bit of research on limbo.

I'm as atheist as they come, but I can't see an ethical problem with baptism.

OP, are you doing it for the theological consequences? In that case a DIY baptism is just as good as any other, or if you don't fancy that you could ask the priest to do privately - it will take seconds. Or are you doing it for the family get-together? That will be a bit more tricky.

Getting off topic I know, but the limbo concept is a massive red flag against god. What a horrible notion.
mathanxiety · 03/09/2021 19:31

it's not just water on a head, it's joining a religion

Nope - that's Confirmation you're thinking of. The OP is RC, not a Baptist.

AnneElliott · 03/09/2021 19:33

But what do you have to actually do to leave? DS doesn't go anymore - and most likely won't marry in the church - so in what was hasn't he left? He also now insists on putting atheist down on forms if asked about religion. So all it is, is an entry in the parish register that he was baptised?

mathanxiety · 03/09/2021 19:42

@HoldingTheDoor, nobody has to 'renounce membership' of the Catholic Church if they decide it's not for them.

You simply stop believing in it all and go on your merry way.

A lot of my baptised and confirmed relatives would be very surprised that renunciation of Catholicism is necessary in order to become Buddhists or atheists.

HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 19:44

Don't be so patronising. I know that you can just stop attending Church and have nothing to do with them, but I'm talking about people who'd like to make it official. Many people have good reasons for that. I begrudge them counting me as one of their members and I would defect if it wasn't so bloody difficult.

Pebbledashery · 03/09/2021 19:46

Just another perspective. I grew up roman Catholic, I got my daughter baptised without consent from her father as I am no contact wtth him. He's a violent abuser who abused both my daughter and I and we were forced to flee. He doesn't know where we reside. To me, the day he abused her was the day he lost his parental rights and my respect for him as a father.. Not that I ever had any. The church didn't ask for the other parents details when I explained my situation, but that's my situation and it's different to yours.

HoldingTheDoor · 03/09/2021 19:48

I posted this earlier but if anyone wants to know more about how difficult it can be

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/how-do-you-become-formally-not-a-catholic-you-take-the-law-into-your-own-hands

mathanxiety · 03/09/2021 19:51

@LoislovesStewie

There is no contradiction involved in being separated or divorced and a Catholic.

The RC Church doesn't make people stay married against their will.

In fact, the RC Church offers a process of annulment of marriage which does not start until after civil divorce has been finalised.

ManifestDestinee · 03/09/2021 19:51

[quote mathanxiety]@HoldingTheDoor, nobody has to 'renounce membership' of the Catholic Church if they decide it's not for them.

You simply stop believing in it all and go on your merry way.

A lot of my baptised and confirmed relatives would be very surprised that renunciation of Catholicism is necessary in order to become Buddhists or atheists.[/quote]
They're still members though. So renunciation is necessary if you don't want to be a member at all.

RoseAddict · 03/09/2021 19:52

For catholic schools you need baptism before 6 months don’t you? So you can’t wait till the child or the ex consents! Just do it.

ManifestDestinee · 03/09/2021 19:53

Not if the child dies! That's why infant baptism is important. Do a bit of research on limbo

You should probably do your own research there, cos limbo ceased to be a thing years ago. The Vatican decided all unbaptised babies go to heaven.

sleepyhoglet · 03/09/2021 19:55

Of course you can do it, if he doesn't want it done because he doesn't believe in baptism then it doesn't matter does it- to him it's just some water on the head!

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/09/2021 20:00

I'm not religious at all, but I understand that it is incredibly important to people with faith to have their children welcomed into their church family through receiving the sacrament of baptism (and First Holy Communion/Sacrament of Reconciliation, after that, confirmation is up to the kid).

Why not talk to your Priest? He'll be able to give you an answer based upon law, both civil and canonical. What you're actually asking is whether he can baptise your baby, not throwing in the possibility of the father saying out of a desire purely to hurt you/cut to the core of your faith and fears. Because for somebody that doesn't believe, that's more important - to hurt their ex - as it would be completely ridiculous to try and force a court decision that a mother can never, ever, speak of her own faith or attend mass, which is what would be needed to not bring her child up as RC. The OP has a right to freedom to express her religion, which includes her child. The father has a right to say it's bollocks, but not to control his ex's religious observance and the way she brings up her child in terms of belief/ethics/morals.

ChateauMargaux · 03/09/2021 20:05

Go and speak to your priest... I am Catholic and I am pretty sure that the priest will allow you to baptise your child into the church.

Blueroses99 · 03/09/2021 20:05

@Mrgrinch

He's already given his consent to the baptism before you split up, I wouldn't ask again.
I would take this approach. You’ve discussed it before and now you are carrying it out. It’s not the same as making a decision unilaterally on something you know the other parent would object to but have never talked about.
Hillary17 · 03/09/2021 20:06

Controversial here but I’d do it anyway. Why do you have an obligation to tell him? He’s not a believer so it shouldn’t make any difference to him what you do.

Plumtree391 · 03/09/2021 20:08

@ManifestDestinee

Not if the child dies! That's why infant baptism is important. Do a bit of research on limbo

You should probably do your own research there, cos limbo ceased to be a thing years ago. The Vatican decided all unbaptised babies go to heaven.

Exactly.

It was a horrible, superstitious myth. A similar thing was perpetrated in the CofE in that at one time an illegitimate child could not be baptised and an unbaptised baby could not be buried in consecrated ground.

All man made, nothing to do with God.

mathanxiety · 03/09/2021 20:13

Nobody is counting you as a member @HoldingTheDoor.

Nobody is going to send you a letter requesting your annual dues. Nobody knows the contents of the hearts of the occupants of the pews on any given Sunday.

You are free to come to the church or recoil in horror from it as you please. You are free to say out loud that you renounce your baptism, and never again have anything to do with the Church. Or you can whisper it, or say it in your own head.

You can enter 'none' on forms if asked to state your religion. You can reply 'none' verbally. You can post about your disdain for the RC Church or forums.

You are endowed with free will; nobody is going to run after you with a pitchfork and a copy of your baptismal cert and make you toe the line.