Eating a carrot is breaking my heart

[CarrotTrauma]

I’ve NC for this as I don’t want linked to my other posts as could be outing to people who know me.

So tonight we have come down hard on our 7yo DC, they are currently bawling their heart out at the table, have been for over half an hour because we are making them eat a carrot, not even a whole carrot, it’s a quarter of a roasted carrot.

We’ve always been fairly relaxed with food. Never forced our DCs to eat food they don’t like, never made them go to bed hungry. The snack draw is always available, they must ask though. But the diet of one of our DCs has gotten so bad we have had to play hard ball.

Number 1, had always had an issue with fruit and veg, bad gag reflex even as a baby. As they have gotten older that gag reflex is still there but they do try and have got to the point where they can eat things they never could before, not a huge amount but are gradually progressing and overall we get some decent healthy food into them. A lot of this has been down to school encouragement in trying new healthy foods and eating with their friends as well as age.

Number 3 child, no problems at all, they will actually get upset if there isn’t enough fruit and veg. 95% of the time they will choose fruit of any sweets/chocolate.

But with number 2 it’s has gotten so bad. As a baby it wasn’t a problem until they started copying number 1 and refusing to eat fruit and veg. As they were close in age it was hard to stop this. They started to make progress at nursery and school and I wasn’t too worried as both told me they were eating stuff they wouldn’t at home and I thought that like number 1 they would get better especially eating at friends homes or friends coming to us as with number 1. But lockdown happened, so they stopped eating with their peers and stopped trying new things which they would happily do at school.

We’ve also moved during lockdown and they are in a new school, but since returning only dose packed lunches. Previously I could live with picking my battles because there were always meals I could sneak a bit of blended veg into and I knew I had the back up that at school they were at least trying and eating foods they refused at home. This isn’t to say I havnt tried, I’ve blended veg hidden it in many mice dishes, spread it on home made pizzas, tried cooking it in lots of various ways. They will eat a bowl of stew and at the end all the meat and gravy is gone and all the veg left. I’ve made novelty meals, got very creative in designing fun plates, but nothing works.

Just to show how bad it is, this is now my DCs diet,

Breakfast - toast with butter, beans or sausages. They use to eat cereal but after being introduced to krave through a relative this is now the only cereal they eat. The only other breakfast foods are pancakes with Nutella. We only allow the krave or anything Nutella related at weekends now. Which is why we started making hot foods during the week.

Lunch - ham sandwich, no other sandwich, will eat plain bread and butter. Pretzels, popcorn and maybe breadsticks. Absolutely nothing else.

Dinner - pizza (cheese n tomato only), sausages, chicken nuggets and chips, roast chicken, hot dogs and pasta, beans, meatballs and of course McDonalds. Won’t eat potatoes in any other form or rice, cous cous, eggs, obviously no veg at all. Will try other meats but not really fussed.

At home they spend all their time asking for snacks, their idea of a snack is chocolate, crisps, sweets, ice cream.... this is why we are at breaking point. We have no issue with our children eating these in moderation and with a healthy varied diet, but our 7yo dose not anything near this.

So tonight was the night we have got tough and stuck to our guns. I’ve had to go upstairs as I can’t bare the crying. Both DH and I have horrible memories of being forced to sit at the table and eat stewed to death veg and swore we would never do it. But we have run out of patience and need to do something before it’s to late.

When my two DS were small, I'd make an adventure by buying a random fruit or vegetable (think dragon fruit or avocado) each week. The three of us would look it over, poke at it, laugh at it and dare each other to try some. It was fun and they both eat absolutely anything now. I also tried them with things like mussels and prawns but got them to close their eyes first as part of a game and they were allowed to spit it out if they didn't like it. Seafood is pretty disgusting to look at and I knew they'd run a mile before trying it, but it worked. Okay they did look horrified when they saw what they'd eaten but it didn't stop them eating more. Could you try something like that OP? Make it a game? (PS. It may backfire when they're older as in the case of my DS2 - he only orders the most expensive things on the menu such as lobster, wagyu steak, etc!)

@Sirzy I ask him to try a little bit every time, because in the past he has claimed to dislike a particular food, and then end up eating it all anyway. I can see it in his face if he really doesnt like something, but if it's just not his favourite I do expect him to just get on with it and eat it. That's how they learn. Being authoritative is a part of being a parent. We know what's best for them.

Having an authority is very important for children's development in general. They need to know who's in charge to feel safe. Children can not make the rules. Healthy habits and boundaries is what we need to teach our children. That is not psychologically damaging. Quite the opposite.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. I think forcing them to try what they don’t like does risk being damaging.

Like I said there is a big difference between making foods available for them to try and forcing them to try something they don’t like. Feeling safe also involves knowing your views are listened too.

Them not eating a healthy diet is hugely damaging physically for them. Like toothpaste said you are too scared of causing them physiological harm that you’ve caused them physical harm instead.

@Sadieeloise5687

It’s not about sitting and making them cry or force feeding them. It’s about good parenting around food - from the start when they start weaning at 6 months. Persistent day in day our ‘try this and you can have this’, ‘eat a few more peas then you can have your yoghurt’, ‘oo what’s this exciting new fruit I’m eating do you want to try some’.

Six and half years of bad parenting and bad relationships with food herself has got the op in this position. Now it will be really hard to change. It’s almost too late tbh.

Honestly. You know you and your own dc. You have no idea what it would be like to parent the OP's children and to suggest she didn't do the things you put in your post around weaning is frankly insulting.

@Sirzy food is not just about likes and dislikes. It's also culture. Bangers and mash makes a meal. Why would I leave the mash out of my child's plate just because he doesn't like it? Or cook a Sunday roast and not dish any potatoes on his plate. He also doesn't like gravy, but I put it on the side of his plate anyway. He can leave the bits that he can't stomach.

A family meal is not just about eating, it's about culture, heritage and customs as well as seeing a well balanced plate in front of you that consists of carbs, protein and vegetables. Be it meatballs, spaghetti and tomatoes or sausages, mash and peas. That's how you build a meal and you need to teach them that from an early age to be able to do it for themselves later on.

I am with @Sadieeloise5687 her. You are not forcing them to eat, but stop buying ultra-processed food and all the snacks that put you in this situation. They want nuggets, you make a homemade chicken schnitzel with them, and you offer real food, without too much fuss. Use real name, you don't say eat your veggies, but have some broccoli, pumpkin, ....
A vegetable can be cooked, prepared , dressed in so many ways.You have to make it taste good, not just offer it on a plate. Fresh vegetables taste way better than frozen or under gas in a packet.

But it is not the vegetable only, make it a house rule, to eat the least processed food and this as a family. They have developed a taste for processed/industrial food, they have the gut bacteria that thrive on them and fight for more.

You got there one food at the time, from the fist packet of baby crisps, followed by a cereal bar, and then a chocolate, and so on,. One by one, processed food has pushed away real food, now is time to reverse that cycle.
Don't bribe, don't negotiate , don't hide 15 gr of peeled zucchini in a meat ball, be just straightforward.

If you have the wrong food in the house, why would they eat the right food.

Go to the grocery store with them, cook with them and while you are busy, have them taste it with the excuse of salt or other.
You have a younger sibling, it will end up in the same way if you do nothing.

[quote PattyPan]@00100001 don’t be facetious.
Processed meat including ham is known to be a cause of colorectal cancer. The same doesn’t go for all foods.[/quote]
A ham sandwich isn't a treat food.

Your perception of what's healthy and what isn't is screwed up.

You GENUINELY believe a slice of toast is a treat... That's messed up.

@Sadieeloise5687

It’s not about sitting and making them cry or force feeding them. It’s about good parenting around food - from the start when they start weaning at 6 months. Persistent day in day our ‘try this and you can have this’, ‘eat a few more peas then you can have your yoghurt’, ‘oo what’s this exciting new fruit I’m eating do you want to try some’.

Six and half years of bad parenting and bad relationships with food herself has got the op in this position. Now it will be really hard to change. It’s almost too late tbh.

Don't listen to this absolute wank op. I was the child that didn't eat anything healthy... my mother tried all ways to get me to eat veg and fruit but I just wouldn't. I wasn't given special children's meals, I ate the food the rest of the family ate... just no fruit or veg. Its no reflection on your parenting, some parents have it easy, others have a struggle on their hands. It's not too late... when I became a teenager and an adult I started eating more and more veg of my own volition, I forced myself to eat olives (now I love them) and beetroot (a previous trigger veg for me 🤢 I love it now too) and I eat mostly veg now, not a fan of junk (only in pregnancy). I'm very healthy (touch wood) always get mistaken for a teenager/early 20s despite being mid30s. I look and feel good, I have a healthy relationship with food, please don't fret and please don't force.

@Sadieeloise5687

It’s not about sitting and making them cry or force feeding them. It’s about good parenting around food - from the start when they start weaning at 6 months. Persistent day in day our ‘try this and you can have this’, ‘eat a few more peas then you can have your yoghurt’, ‘oo what’s this exciting new fruit I’m eating do you want to try some’.

Six and half years of bad parenting and bad relationships with food herself has got the op in this position. Now it will be really hard to change. It’s almost too late tbh.

Bad parenting? How dare you insult a complete stranger who you know nothing about and has sought support. Christ alive.

Jamestowno - there’s no need to be so offensive.Are you always so rude?

The op has admitted she has issues with food stemming from the way she was brought up. She lacks the emotional maturity to realise that even though she found it traumatic her parents were doing it FOR HER OWN good. She basically decided to take the approach to let her children decide what they eat. Which surprise surprise is chocolate and crisps. And now she’s stuck having realised how bad their diet has become.

It’s like getting a child to take horrible tasting medicine. Sometimes you have to be tough FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. At some point, when they are an adult the child will appreciate that. Many pp haven’t got to that stage of thought yet and consequently try to be ‘better’ parents than their own by letting their children eat whatever rubbish and restricted diet they like.

If they like pancakes, you can grate in apples and carrot into it, my dc loves them.
Also if they eat meatballs or chicken nuggets, you can add chopped vegs in the meat mixture without altering taste too much.
For stew, cook the basic vegs like onion/carrot/celery until soft and blitz it up and add to the sauce instead of keeping it chunky.

I would focus less on forcing the good stuff and more on withdrawing the unhealthy stuff.

If you don’t have it in the house they can’t cry for it and you won’t give in and give it to them.

Offer the healthy meals. Try presenting a meal that you know they like in a slightly different variation......

I would start with putting new things (or old things you know they used to like) on their plate. They don’t have to eat it, just not make a fuss.
Then when they’ve adapted to that...... one bite of the new thing only per meal.
Then build up to the whole amount .

But the goal is to de sensitise them to the automatic response of refusing and emotions

But rogue that doesn’t actually get them eating veg when presented with it in a normal dinner so whilst it might short term help improve their nutrition it doesn’t improve their relationship with food. It’s not really a fix is it?

Mistress - read the op’s posts. She admits she didn’t do those things! She and her husband made the decision not to force healthy food when their children were small. They gave free access to treat food like chocolate.

It seems posters have dropped a couple of words from my post to fit their own narrative (with a couple of posters just completely making up what I serve my dc).
Toast 'for breakfast' is not something I would give my dc, no. Breakfast needs to keep them going at school all morning, so it's porridge (with berries to sweeten), or eggs. For sure, toast is lovely, and not remotely forbidden. But, it is processed, it's not particularly nutritious, so no, I don't want it to be a 'go to' for my dc. For example, toast for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, toast as a snack for supper, and they've had 6 slices.
Someone asked what do I give my kids then, if ham sandwiches and toast for breakfast are treats. Yesterday;
Breakfast - Porridge with berries
School lunch - Jacket potato with salad and coleslaw
After school snack - Strawberries with Nutella
Dinner - salmon risotto with broccoli and peas
Similar to what everyone I know would have.

It's really funny reading these suggestions. Everyone said all this with my stepson. There isn't a suggestion on this thread that wasn't made to us and that we didn't try.

He would basically only eat pizza and instant noodles right into his teens. He'd have a baguette with nothing in it. Tomato soup, but only Heinz. Breaded chicken things. No potatoes at all except instant mash.

He would just refuse anything else no matter what we did. We didn't really have snacks in the house. He would gag and sick up food onto his plate, even at age fifteen.

It's a surprise he's still alive. But he is and he's now twenty and eats reasonably normally. I expect he'll get better as he gets older too.

As on so many MN threads about all aspects of parenting, the answer is that different things work for different kids 😳 who knew?!

You're clearly doing your best, OP - other methods may help you but also, they may not! I really think it's trial and error, without beating yourself up too much about it and without losing sight of a more holistic view of children's overall health, both mental and physical. It's very easy for others to judge, especially when these years are well behind them or actually their kids just went off green veg for a bit, which isn't really comparable. Having said that, you have asked for advice, so you're going to get it! Best of luck, and solidarity, to you.

A ham sandwich or toast is a once a week treat? That is genuinely one of the saddest things I've ever read.

This. Poor kids.

I have no valuable advice OP, not having children, but just wanted to say that I was a very fussy eater as a child. My mother could never remember what I did or didn't like! As I got older my diet became much more varied and I now eat most of the foods I refused as a child. There is hope!

I wouldn’t say once a week only but I also wouldn’t give toast or a ham sandwich every day. They are extremely high in salt and not that healthy. We have toast occasionally and ham sandwiches rarely. The kids don’t miss out- my youngest loves peanut butter on apples more than plain buttered toast.

Although I agree parenting /feeding some kids can be harder than others my comments don’t apply to children who have genuine physiological issues around food. These need specialist therapy and treatment. My comments apply to the general sub set of the population who think coco pops are ok for everyday breakfast.

Well, stop beating yourself up. You're not a bad parent. Unfortunately food has become a battleground in your house, so you aren't going to sort it out overnight. I'd look into professional advice to hopefully eliminate the fact that there might be a medical issue. If no......well then, they've got you at it. Are they genuinely hungry at mealtimes? I'd start with giving multivitamins so you can stop worrying about vitamin deficiency, together with NO snacking between meals, and offering veg, fruit and the good stuff you want them to eat at the same time as reducing the quantities of the junk you don't want them to have. A sliver of pizza instead of a slice. Then fill up on "good" stuff......or go without. Good luck!

Clymene

PattyPan

@AccidentallyOnPurpose the WHO says that each 50g serving of processed meat a day increases the risk of cancer by 18%. The NHS advice isn’t as strong because they know how obsessed with processed meat this country is and need to be realistic but that doesn’t change the underlying risk.

Receipts please. 18% a day would mean most Germans would be dead by they time they were 20

I'm pretty sure they don't mean that the risk increases by 18% for every single day you eat 50g of meat. It's not like Monday your risk increases 18%, Tuesday your risk increases another 18%, Wednesday you're dead from cancer. It's more like if you eat 50g of red/processed meat every day your risk increases by 18%, if you eat 100g every single day your risk increases by 36%, if you eat 150g every single day it increases by 54% etc. I imagine that if you cut down from eating 50g every day to eating 50g every other day your increased risk would halve to 9%. I'm just taking that poster at their word though, I haven't checked this 18% stat for myself. I don't know how much meat that equates to in practice though.

Saying that ham sandwiches should be a once a week treat is clearly ridiculous, but so is trying to claim that ham isn't a processed food. Even fancy organic ham is still heavily processed and reformed before being sliced. It doesn't come off the pig like that!

This article has some pictures if what 50g of meat looks like, so you could very easily eat 50g in a single sandwich.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/five-meats-by-the-slice-see-how-little-50-grams-actually-is-1.3289822

Sorry for the derail OP. Hope it works out for you. We have similar problems with my 4 year old and I end up feeding him all sorts of not ideal things just to try and get enough calories into him. Go easy on yourself, it's really stressful having a kid who doesn't eat much. We give him the Well kid smart chewable multivitamins every day, and just focus on trying to get enough calories beyond that.

@arethereanyleftatall

It seems posters have dropped a couple of words from my post to fit their own narrative (with a couple of posters just completely making up what I serve my dc). Toast 'for breakfast' is not something I would give my dc, no. Breakfast needs to keep them going at school all morning, so it's porridge (with berries to sweeten), or eggs. For sure, toast is lovely, and not remotely forbidden. But, it is processed, it's not particularly nutritious, so no, I don't want it to be a 'go to' for my dc. For example, toast for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, toast as a snack for supper, and they've had 6 slices. Someone asked what do I give my kids then, if ham sandwiches and toast for breakfast are treats. Yesterday; Breakfast - Porridge with berries School lunch - Jacket potato with salad and coleslaw After school snack - Strawberries with Nutella Dinner - salmon risotto with broccoli and peas Similar to what everyone I know would have.

Ok I do get that some bread is very processed with all manner of shit added in but not all bread. A home made or bakery made wholemeal or whole grain loaf with proper butter. Really so bad? And yes bread for every meal is not great but bread itself is not the devil.

I’m not sure what age your children are but when they become teenagers the chances are they will be eating toast or quick and easy cereal a lot. They might love porridge still but probably aren’t going to reach for an extra bowl of porridge when those teenage hunger pangs hit.