Breast is best - no it’s not actually.

[bubblesforlife]

I’m a new mom, my baby was born last weekend.
I followed feeding guidelines, listened to professional advice, and decided to breast feed my baby.

A few days in, my baby has developed jaundice and low sodium. This is due to dehydration and no fluids.

I gave my Baby colostrum, by breast and syringe regularly.

I asked my visiting midwife if I should supplement feeding with formula until my milk came in, she said no I am doing the best by my baby. Not unless there is a clinical need.

Now we’re readmitted for 2 nights minimum and placed on as strict baby formula feeding plan.

2 other ladies in the ward also have dehydrated babies for the same reason as me. How does this happen all the time yet no one talks about it?

Breast is best? No. Starve your baby until your milk comes in, and then hope for the best that you’re on for the lucky ones it works for.

My milk came in on day 3, a normal timeline.!

The messaging is wrong to mothers. This is so very common according to hospital.

Breast is best..... eventually.... but feed your baby what it needs, if that’s a supplement of formula, so what.

I don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I’m just so upset. No one told me I was starving my little newborn. I did my best, I tried so hard and sat there filling syringes of colostrum.

Something has to change here. The pressure placed on new mothers throughout pregnancy to breast feed is wrong.

I hope my baby recovers soon so we can go home and be a family.

And I don't for a minute believe that all women produce the same amount of milk. So, if you have given birth to a large/hungry baby and you have little supply, there will be a mismatch sometimes. I remember some mums in my NCT group who regularly said they 'leaked' masses, whereas others really struggled and pumped for months and I'm sure it almost made them slightly depressed/exhausted.

But this is not really how milk supply works - it's not as though you have a set amount you produce and this is the maximum you can possibly make in a day and then when it's gone it's gone. Supply is quite elastic - after all, your body doesn't know whether you've had one dainty eater or body building triplets, and most babies have a variation in their needs as they grow. A newborn doesn't drink the same amount as a 6 month old baby, and one who has just started solids doesn't take the same amount as a 2 year old who is eating mostly food.

Likewise leaking is no indication of supply.

Struggling and feeling tired could be indicative of low supply but it could also be other problems (vitamin deficiency, non-sleeping baby, problems with milk transfer) some of which may lead to lowered supply.

I don't think it's especially helpful either to spout some BS, probably made up percentage of women who supposedly "can" breastfeed in perfect conditions, because well, mainly we aren't in perfect conditions, but more broadly - obviously, some women will breastfeed easily, some women will need support at varying levels to manage (which they may or may not get, and I believe the top level support most women access in the UK is way under par), and some women no matter how much support they have will never be able to feed their babies completely from the breast. What the percentage of each of these groups is doesn't especially matter, unless you're funding BF support and deciding how much help to make available. All of them deserve to be able to access high quality support in order to give them the best shot they possibly have. I don't think the majority of women in the UK have this at the moment. So unless you're lucky enough to be in the first group and find it easy, or the support you require happens to match up with the level of support you receive (because you only need minimal support or the support you get is good) then you're likely to struggle. And I think that is a large percentage of women in the UK - no infant feeding surveys since 2010 unfortunately, but at that count it was around 70% of mothers who started breastfeeding, struggling. Around half of those received enough support that they were able to continue feeding to the point they wanted to, and the other half had to stop before they wanted to. That's the situation we have in the UK, so going on about 98% in Sweden or whatever is totally irrelevant - we are not in Sweden. That's not the situation that a mother in the UK is in.

And anyway, in an evolutionary sense, it doesn't make sense that most women would need to be able to breastfeed, as long as enough can that enough babies born can be fed (not necessarily directly by their own mother) to sustain a population. So can we just stop with the made up statistics and airy promises that cavewomen could all breastfeed so we must be able to? [Subtext: If you try hard enough, aka, if you struggled with breastfeeding, it's your own fault.] We don't live in that society. We live in a 21st century, heavily commercialised, individualistic society, and we're in the middle of a pandemic, so good support is even harder to access than normal.

OP whatever your feelings about bottle or breast now, they'll be dim, distant and irrelevant in a year's time.
Congratulations x

OP congratulations and hope you're feeling ok.

My DD1 had 100% tongue tie and colic. Because of the 'breast is best' message I spent the worst 6 weeks of my life trying to breastfeed my 9lb 1oz baby. She cried, I cried. In the end I called a private midwife to opetate on the tongue tie (NHS was 3 month wait) and her words were 'I have no idea how you're feeding this baby' as the tongue tie was so bad. By this point I was so depressed and broken from the whole experience that I started to mix feed, eventually moving to formula at 3months. And do you know what, baby was happier and so was I! The pressure to breast feed and lack of support nearly broke me. Not one midwife at the hospital told me the tongue tie would impact feeding or told me how to deal with it. I was discharged 24 hours after an emergency c section with zero support.

My second DD who is 3 months, I knew I couldn't go through it again. So I expressed and pumped for 8 weeks then moved to formula. We are both happy.

Don't let anyone pressure you or make you feel like formula is a failure.

All the best xx

This happened to me . I honestly think if breast feeding had been more successful and we werent readmitted for ds jaundice then I would not have had pnd.

I spent the best part of a week in hospital trying to get my baby to feed. Zero issues with my supply - baby simply refused to latch. Spent many an hour, night after night with feeding specialists who thought we’d cracked it (if cracking it is taking 3 hours to get baby to feed.) Only for them to come back at next feeding time for the same thing to happen. When feeding experts are telling you that formula is going to be best in your case you have to take that advise. The reason I was so torn up about this and felt like the biggest failure of a mother who had failed their child was due to the breast is net brigade preaching on. Not one person can tell me I never tried hard enough and didn’t persevere so please don’t say I should have done x,y or z.

There’s no pressure. We have some of the lowest breastfeeding rates in Europe. The minority breastfeed. The majority formula feed. Midwives encourage breast. Most women ignore the advice.

Sorry it didn’t work for you but what you’re saying is dangerous as it could put off the minority who do give bfing a go. For many it is a brilliant simple process. More work needs to be done to normalise bfing in my opinion. Better education to show young girls it is a normal, natural way to feed. Better teaching on how to do it and the common problems you will face and how to overcome them.

Personally I found the pressure was relentless in the other direction. Mums at baby groups asking “but aren’t you tired?” and “formula really helps them sleep” and “after one you’re just doing it for you, they don’t NEED it anymore” and “I love sharing feeding with my husband, it’s such a bonding experience” and a MIL who left the room if I started feeding as though it was shameful and embarrassing.

Relentless.

I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out for you. But you shouldn’t be trying to put other women off based on your unusual experience.

I have a mixed experience myself.

DS1 - I had preclampsia, he was born weighing 6 pounds 10 at 39 weeks, i was told he had the blood sugar level of a prem baby. I breast fed him while I was in hospital for the 3 days but the nurses said he needed to be fed bottles every 20 minutes to build him up (this was 1989 so maybe different now), then I took him home after 4 days and breast fed him until he was 2. He weighed 21 pounds at 3 months on just breast milk so even though he needed a little help in the first couple of days my milk did help him thrive too so dont be disheartenend

DS2 was born weighing in at 10 pounds and I fed him for a year entirely breast fed but he did get jaundice, I was told to feed him more, but did so by offerring him the breast more frequently.

DD, my youngest, again I got pre eclampsia and she was induced at 32 weeks, she was born weighing 3 pounds but amazingly within 2 weeks she latched on and I was able to breast feed her, but at the beginning she was in addition fed through a tube in her nose. She also developed jaundice but again I just BF her more, although we were in hospital for 3 weeks so monitored by the staff.

Dont be upset about the supplementary feeds, it doesnt mean you have failed, think about it as giving nature a helping hand, in the same way people have c sections rather than going through labour. X

We're not living, as mentioned before, in a society where there is the support our ancestors would have experienced in the early weeks after childbirth. Plus lots of women would have been childbearing at the same time so wet nurses or excess supplies would be shared.

I think there is a lot of guild around this as there is the perception that you can provide allergy protection with BF (even though there is no significant difference between FF and BF, apart from some studies showing some gut bacteria differs). The main issue is around time of solid introduction. Anecdotally, the only people I know with children who have severe allergies, are those whose mothers BF exclusively (admittedly, some were very stressed and under pressure).

Do you know anyone with a serious food allergy who exclusively FF?

Anyhow, some interesting research following the EAT study about the optimal window of introducing solids. This is much more important in avoiding allergies:

www.food.gov.uk/research/food-allergy-and-intolerance-research/eat-study-early-introduction-of-allergenic-foods-to-induce-tolerance

[quote 2021newhope]We're not living, as mentioned before, in a society where there is the support our ancestors would have experienced in the early weeks after childbirth. Plus lots of women would have been childbearing at the same time so wet nurses or excess supplies would be shared.

I think there is a lot of guild around this as there is the perception that you can provide allergy protection with BF (even though there is no significant difference between FF and BF, apart from some studies showing some gut bacteria differs). The main issue is around time of solid introduction. Anecdotally, the only people I know with children who have severe allergies, are those whose mothers BF exclusively (admittedly, some were very stressed and under pressure).

Do you know anyone with a serious food allergy who exclusively FF?

Anyhow, some interesting research following the EAT study about the optimal window of introducing solids. This is much more important in avoiding allergies:

www.food.gov.uk/research/food-allergy-and-intolerance-research/eat-study-early-introduction-of-allergenic-foods-to-induce-tolerance[/quote]
Actually your correct on the allergy thing. My middle son was exclusively breast fed and is the only one of my 3 with asthma, excma, nut allergy and lactose intolerant. I only realise this after reading your post. Now I wonder if it was in actual fact me that caused it by BF as the others although I did BF them they had formula as well...

I don't understand the argument I often see which goes along the lines of 'you can't tell which adults were breast or bottle fed'. No, but then there's lots of things you can't immediately 'see' or 'tell' about a person and their health. It's a silly argument.

@Jenasaurus Please don't think it was you. There is a lot of research ongoing in this area and it is not all clear cut. There are some studies which show that if you do have allergies in the family it might be better not to BF (i.e. opposite advice to previously). But it's only early days but food allergy research is gaining traction. They also used to say to avoid certain foods, e.g. peanuts, if you have eczema or allergies in the family whereas the opposite might be true, i.e. introduce allergens at a specific point in infancy and you train your body to react normally to it.

I do remember speaking to a renowned allergist (who did not have children so no strong feelings either way) and she said that when she was running a food allergy clinic, the categorically found that she never, ever had a child with allergies who was exclusively BF. Interesting...

@bubblesforlife "breast is best" biologically but it's not the only way and fed is best is also absolutely true. Can both not be true?

I had traumatic births and BIG babies. Getting started with breast feeding was a nightmare. I combi fed my first for 6 weeks and my second for 10 weeks.

I then managed to feed them exclusively until weaning and kept going until first was 14 months and second was 16 months.

I wish that artificial formula was available by prescription and/or free, wasn't sold by companies who make profit and invested in with research and development so that the product was the best it could be.

I also wish that wet-nursing was somehow acceptable and not exploitative and that milk donation was a bigger deal.

I'm glad I made but now they are 14 and 10 there is no way to look at them or their friends and know who was breastfed, who was combi fed and who was formula fed.

Fed is necessary. Breast is best. Formula is fine.

Oh and one of the best things I did was to buy a supplementary nursing system. This was full of formula or expressed milk and I taped a tiny tube to my nipple. When baby latched onto feed (painful in the early days due to a congenital breast defect) they were getting my milk, a top up and stimulating whatever it was that needed to be stimulated!

If you can maybe get one of those?

Well done OP for posting this.
Before I had my DS I thought breastfeeding would be the most easy and natural thing in the world. My goodness was I wrong!!! The toll it took mentally and physically I was not prepared for at all. I mean having a baby is hard enough without the struggles of breastfeeding
I appreciate for some it works out absolutely fine and that’s brilliant, it really us.
But well done OP on speaking out on the struggles with it Xx

There are some really, really nasty comments on this thread. Insinuating that women are bringing the guilt on themselves rather than owning the pressure that is put on mothers. Suggesting that women are not honest when they say they had low supply. Truly, truly nasty and shameful IMHO. It's hard enough being a new mother without that kind of arrogance thrown into the mix.

@Vtech

Fed is necessary. Breast is best. Formula is fine.

This.

To those insinuating that I am against breast feeding and trying to put people off. This is not correct; please take the time to read my posts and that should be immediately apparent. I’m sharing my ongoing experience.

I am raising the point about the messaging we receive as mother’s and saying it’s not always correct and more information should be available about how to spot the signs that baby is not getting what they need. Also stop assuming just because they are exclusively BF, issues won’t arise. They can.

Women should feel confident to ask for help, ask questions and get the support they need.

For what it’s worth, my expressing has been successful today, I’m able to see how much I’m giving my baby at this critical time and I’m seeing improvements by the hour. I feel so happy to see my baby thrive again. Doctors orders are paying off.

These threads annoy me, because they always descend into an argument between people who b feed and people who give their babies formula.

I absolutely agree, no one should feel ashamed and guilty for not being able to b feed. This can lead to PND and is shit for the mother.

But looking at the scientific evidence, I have to say I agree with @Vtech.

However. In the long run none of this matters as when the child is five or whatever, you’d not be able to tell apart the formula fed from the b fed.

@bubblesforlife what is really important for b feeding mothers Is good peer support which I think is dependent on postcode. We have a great service where I live, on both occasions i had visits om the second day after I returned home from the hospital- and ongoing support and calls when I was engirged. I’m not sure how this is affected by corona

I'm so grateful to all the people saying "fed is best".

I always thought it was best not to feed a baby. I guess if feeding them is best, then not feeding them is still an option though? Just not the best option?

I'm amazed at some of the responses.

I truly believe, do what is best for YOU and YOUR situation. Some mums end up under enormous pressure and I will never forget one mum who said that she went into a frantic quest of breastfeeding (despite huge difficulty) that for one year she said she was in a bubble where she virtually turned into a different person - not even fully bonding with her DD and being distanced and weird towards her partner.

So, really, do what is best. No significant findings in favour of breastfeeding if you really look at the evidence. As I said, ask yourself, do you know any exclusivey FF babies with food allergies??

So if it comes easy to you, great, if it doesn't due to lack of supply or it makes you stressed, sleepless etc etc, do remember that the hormones produced from stress are much more harmful.

Goodness, no wonder women are held back in every walks of life. It's women who stop women from feeling good about themselves. As is evidenced on this thread.

I guess if feeding them is best, then not feeding them is still an option though? Just not the best option?

Yes thats right. Well done! Not feeding a baby is perfectly ok. The saying IS there to let people know not feeding a baby is an option, rather than to make those who are struggling with not BF feel ok. Do you have this much empathy in real life? Or do you just leave it behind when you log in to MN?

@bubblesforlife that sounds like some great progress! Glad your baby is doing a bit better.

BF worked for me. And for millions of others. Sorry you had a bad experience but it doesn’t cancel out breastfeeding.