Rushing to move baby into their own rooms or to sleep on their own...

[Safesleeping]

I've seen so many posts recently about putting babies in their own room and such a young age so the parent/s can sleep better. So many comment "my baby makes to much noise at night" "my baby needs to learn to sleep in their own". Its so sad, your baby needs and wants to be around you, there is the 6month rule for a reason.

Why do you really need to push your baby out at such young ages? Did you not think about these things before having a baby? I really hope nothing happens to these babies that are being put into their own rooms because mummy needs more sleep...

I disagree. There were no guidelines for six months in with you when my kids were born, and I keep picturing people now putting their babies to bed then sitting there in the dark until it's their own bedtime - do they do that? I doubt it.
My babies were perfectly content in their own rooms from the start. I never let them cry - I used a baby monitor and went to them if they fussed. I breastfed both and it was not a problem as I fed them once just before I went to bed and again 2 or three on the morning. There was the very occasional fussy night but after both were three months old they were easy to put down and slept well. Was I lucky or could it be that I had a strict routine? Who knows? Worked though.
SIDS is a terrible tragedy but I'm not sure having my kids in with me would have kept them any 'safer', I could hear them clearly through the monitor but they could not hear me to disturb them.

@Pipandmum, OK seriously, what is this thing where people assume that if you are following the guidelines, you must be sitting in the dark, just staring at the baby the whole time?! It's a ridiculous assumption to be honest. I followed the guidance quite stringently because of personal circumstances (not judging those who don't as it's not always possible / practical) and did NOT watch my ds sleep. I read on the kindle. I watched TV on a tablet with headphones on. I caught up on sleep. In the day I pottered about the living room doing jobs etc.

It's not about watching to see if anything goes wrong, it's so the baby hears/senses (or whatever) your breathing /general presence to stop them falling into too deep a sleep and help regulate breathing to reduce sids risk. No it does not eliminate it. Nothing entirely eliminates risks of any kind, but if we can do things to try to help reduce them, why not??

Again, no judgement at all for how others manage the sleeping arrangements, but this constant idea that those who do must be insane helicopter parents who sit at the edge of their seat staring at the baby for hours is really annoying. Maybe some are like that, but not all, honest 🙂

@Pipandmum, lol sorry I've just re read your post and realised you only said about sitting in the dark and not actually about watching baby sleep. Apologies, I must have read it a bit wrong and also mixed it up with other comments I've seen... It's too early! Xx

Ohalrightthen, people do die suddenly of no apparent cause, including babies. My friend's son died of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, on his own, aged 24; he had no underlying conditions and absolutely nothing was found on PM. It is just a sad fact that such things happen sometimes.

@jessstan1

Ohalrightthen, people do die suddenly of no apparent cause, including babies. My friend's son died of Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, on his own, aged 24; he had no underlying conditions and absolutely nothing was found on PM. It is just a sad fact that such things happen sometimes.

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what the coroner said. Cosleeping couldn't save her.

Sometimes the pathologists finds something very obscure, like wonky T-waves but often they can't; the heart appears to have just stopped. That's ok if you're 90, not for babies and youngsters with their lives ahead of them. It's terribly sad. The only comfort is there was no suffering.

I agree with you OP, there was a study that showed how being in the same room reduces the risk of SIDS due to the carbon dioxide in the room which encourages the baby to breathe (I thought that was bonkers until I googled it and found the research paper). Sadly I know of two babies who have died of SIDS and they were in their own rooms before 6 months. That’s not to say it might not work for some people, I know of several friends whose babies were in their own room from 5 months and they have been fine and slept better. I think what OP is getting at is perhaps the posts that say “I’m tired and feel I should leave the baby in a separate room to get a good night’s sleep”. Sadly with all this stupid Covid business going on, new parents don’t have the support of grandparents who could visit and help out and give everyone a break. It’s tough times at the moment.

I agree with you OP, there was a study that showed how being in the same room reduces the risk of SIDS due to the carbon dioxide in the room which encourages the baby to breathe (I thought that was bonkers until I googled it and found the research paper).

Could you link to this paper? Because unless this research is absolutely brand new - and in which case it's ground breaking - the idea that the preventative effect is due to CO2 is just a hypothesis, not a fact. If it were proven fact then actually guidelines would have to be revised because just being in the same room wouldn't appreciably raise CO2 levels, you'd need to be essentially breathing on the baby so a separate cot in the same room wouldn't be sufficient to give the protective effect.

And most people, during Covid or otherwise, don't have any one else to look after the baby overnight (I don't know anyone who did), so count yourself very lucky if you did!

OP - You are completely the fact that this forum is for discussion and debate. You think one way, fine, many others think differently. It is not for you to judge, or say that posters should only follow the party line, that is non-democratic. Everyone has a right to their own opinion and the right to declare it.

The biggest step in preventing SIDS was the "back to sleep" campaign. It resulted in a huge reduction in baby deaths. Scientifically everything else is marginal.

Do you have monitors, plug covers, table edges, clips on cupboards, stair gates, wall fixed drawers, etc etc etc. I didn't have any of those, but that is my choice.

The risk of SIDs goes up anyway in smoking families, babies who were born less than 6 pounds, and for babies with some kind of respiratory illness (even a cold). DH comes from an Indian family where sudden death before 30 is common enough that it isn’t a surprise - despite this SIDs is virtually non-existant because children sleep in the same room and often the same bed as an adult (usually a grandparent) until they are at least 7.

You can hear when a child is grunting or has stopped breathing - it’s happen a few times with my DS when he’s had a cold. Pinching his ears or waking him up helps him restart (he sleeps in bed with me).

@Hardbackwriter

I agree with you OP, there was a study that showed how being in the same room reduces the risk of SIDS due to the carbon dioxide in the room which encourages the baby to breathe (I thought that was bonkers until I googled it and found the research paper).

Could you link to this paper? Because unless this research is absolutely brand new - and in which case it's ground breaking - the idea that the preventative effect is due to CO2 is just a hypothesis, not a fact. If it were proven fact then actually guidelines would have to be revised because just being in the same room wouldn't appreciably raise CO2 levels, you'd need to be essentially breathing on the baby so a separate cot in the same room wouldn't be sufficient to give the protective effect.

I think that reader confused the research. Latest research suggests SIDs is caused by faulty neurorecepters that can’t recognise rising co2 levels (the kind that occurs with suffocation). But a lot of doctors view this with skeptically - because if there were a genetic cause there would be a lot more cases of SIDs in Asia than there are.

Looking at the stats again, 730,000 births, 200 SIDS deaths, and OP knows 2, that's extremely unlucky.

[quote ariettesmall]@user1493413286

But I can say that, and I have. And I will again.

No baby has died as a direct result of co sleeping when they had no underlying conditions and where all guidelines were followed.

[/quote]
Total and utter rubbish. You could say that you aren't aware of any reports or research of any known deaths of a baby that has died as a direct result of co sleeping when they had no underlying conditions and where all guidelines were followed.

But as Ohalrightthen has attested to, there is at least one... Unless you are calling them a liar? Or that the coroner doing the autopsy was incompetent and there must have been an underlying health problem? Or maybe you are just insinuating that the parents were neglectful and caused the death of their baby...? Either way you are extremely offensive!

No baby has died as a direct result of co sleeping when they had no underlying conditions and where all guidelines were followed.

The guidelines are created by analysing the situations around infant deaths. This means that there had be a significant amount of deaths in those situations first to be statistically relevant enough to make those guidelines. Situations many may have thought of as safer - even medically recommended (front and side sleeping, anyone?).

There are potential risks and potential suffering with every choice, even if we personally only get the benefits from them. That's part of life. I benefitted greatly from co-sleeping in my bed, I think my kids did too for a time, but we honestly can't say 'no one died following the guidelines' when those guidelines only exist because babies died. I think that's heartbreakingly blaming deaths solely on conditions & improper practices when mostly they have no they currently knowable cause, but yes, might involve cosleeping or any other number of factors.

Some guidelines have stronger evidence than others, & more evidence comes in all the time. We can only make our own choices that fits our needs with the data we have & no one can or should try to live a statistical ideal. Sometimes slim risks crush us even when current data says it shouldn't, sometimes we win against them & many tmes we have no bloody idea most of the factors involved to tally.

The majority of parents do what is best for their baby and themselves as a family.
The circumstances are different for every family. Some babies sleep better in a separate room etc.
I personally would always have my baby close by in the same room to sleep, regardless of the guidelines. It feels natural to me. I didn't give it a second thought.
My 14 month still sleeps in a cot in our room and end up in bed with us at some point during the night (I'm still bf).
It works for us, we all sleep well and we all enjoy the closeness.

@peasoup8

You can quote as much research or as many stats as you like, but nothing will convince me that it’s safe to put a tiny baby in a massive double bed with two sleeping adults who have no control over their movements (because they’re asleep).

This is from an article by someone in India, where SIDs is very, very rare despite kids sleeping in exactly that situation. It’s fairly well researched.

www.google.com/amp/www.firstpost.com/living/baby-in-bed-can-co-sleeping-kill-your-child-157053.html/amp

Also something from Rutgers

www.rutgers.edu/news/indian-americans-have-fewer-sudden-infant-deaths-rutgers-study-finds

If it was unsafe to co-sleep then Japan and India would have the highest rates of SIDs in the world not the lowest.

Putting babies on their back in their own cot is the single most effective prevention of SIDS. This is indisputable. The death of a baby in this way is incredibly rare. Happens but is extremely rare.

What is more common is SIDS due to unsafe bed or sofa sharing usually with other factors including parents smoking, even if not in the home, drinking or drugs. The key word here is unsafe. There are clear guidelines as to what constitutes safe bedsharing. It's not as safe as a baby in their own cot, on their back either in a sleeping bag or with bankets under their shoulders in their parents room but it's safer than unsafe bedsharing and sofa sharing which is actually the biggest issue.

Some babies sleep better in a separate room etc.

Some think that's why it's linked to SIDS- deeper sleep means more risk.

@roarfeckingroarr

I have an 18 day old son and I fully intend to keep him close for a minimum of six months. WhT would be nice though would be for him to sleep in his next 2 me cot or Moses basket not just on me at night.

It’ll come, in time. I spent many hours in a terribly uncomfortable position, breastfeeding DS whilst he was lying in the next2me. Have you tried feeding lying down?

Can we be clear :

SIDS is when a baby sudden passes away, in their sleep, in an unexplained way.

Suffocation because of bed sharing of sofa sleeping etc. Is also desperately sad, and tragic, but it’s is different to SIDS.

Bed sharing reduces the risk of SIDS but increases the risk of suffocation. But again this can be mitigated by making the bed a safer space. No loose covers, baby on the top of duvet in a sleep sac, no smokers in the room or alcohol to be drunk etc. Mattress on the floor to avoid falls.

Everyone has to make their own choice about risk, based on their own circumstances.

For example what if Dad is a smoker? Should he be sleeping in a spare room? Or is a teeth clean and a shower adequate?

The point I keep coming back to, is that people need to understand WHY things are recommended so than can make an INFORMED choice depending on their own circumstances.

Bed sharing reduces the risk of SIDS but increases the risk of suffocation. But again this can be mitigated by making the bed a safer space. No loose covers, baby on the top of duvet in a sleep sac, no smokers in the room or alcohol to be drunk etc. Mattress on the floor to avoid falls

I think putting them on the duvet would be contrary to guidance- they're supposed to be on a firm surface.

Totally agree @Safesleeping
Mine is still in with me at 14 months.

I hate the way so many people on here frame their babies as “problems to be fixed”.

@Megan2018

Totally agree *@Safesleeping* Mine is still in with me at 14 months.

I hate the way so many people on here frame their babies as “problems to be fixed”.

Megan, your judgy pants are hoiked up so high you're at real risk of a nasty UTI.

Your post was not exactly rude but disgustingly shaming , in your last paragraph of your initial post was a sentence that I hope you are truly ashamed of. Really , i truly hope you consider why you thought that was acceptable.

I actually would have agreed with you that in general i believe the 6 month rule / guidance is there for a reason. I kept both of mine in with me for longer. I do believe it is a logical protect tive factor for SIDS and sadly I would agree people need to consider carefully giving advice that conflicts with established guidance.

However all of that was completely lost because your horrifically written implication that mothers should blame themselves if something happens is abhorrent. If your message was well meant that was lost because it simply comes across as being self satisfied and nasty.

Which is a pity, yet again a sensible valid point is lost because a poster was more interested in their own self validation and a chance to grind others down. Great job OP.