Awful day with DS

[daisy86]

DS is just over 6 months old. I’ve put him down for three naps today and he’s been a nightmare to settle every time, crying, tossing and turning for around 20 minutes before finally falling asleep. He’s then slept for just 40 minutes per nap, so I’ve had barely any respite to relax or get anything done. It feels like so much effort and stress to settle him down for just 40 minutes of sleep!

I take him up for naps every 2.5 hours and I can see that he’s showing tiredness signals like rubbing his eyes. But as soon as I put him in his cot he will start crying and like I say, only sleep for one sleep cycle when he does finally settle. I wish I knew where the blissful two hour naps of old have gone.

Also, he woke from his last nap at 2pm today, so has just gone down for his last sleep of the day. I’m concerned that it’s too close to his bedtime (usually 7pm) but I could hardly keep him up for five hours (i.e. from 2-7pm) at his age.

I’m also weaning him following the Joe Wicks Wean in 15 method, which suggests introducing babies to bitter veg initially (such as broccoli and kale) before moving onto sweeter things like carrot and sweet potato. We’re still in the “bitter” phase and he has hated everything I’ve tried - he hasn’t even swallowed anything yet.

All the photos I’ve seen on Instagram show babies happily smearing food all over their faces and seemingly loving it, but DS just grimaces and refuses to eat anything. Where am I going wrong?

Babies are small for such a very short amount of time - enjoy spending time with him. When choosing what to try him with think about what you would like - I bet its not boiled kale - too much of the bitter tastes can turn them off. As far as sleep goes putting the bouncy chair in front of the washing machine can work a treat...

My little one was always a fussy eater, making her take the bottle was a hard task when I had to stop breastfeeding because I had to go to work. She's now 9 months old and is munching everything after a very challenging 3 months of weaning. Yesterday she tried kale for the first time, screamed and started gagging .... Defo not a fan 🤣 she loves brokkoli though. What I'm trying to say is that babies also have tastes and you can't make them eat things kust because someone decides that that's the right way to wean a child. Don't forget that breastmilk (and formula) is very sweet! How would you feel if someone tried to feed you kale after 6 months of warm, sweet nectar?

Also, mine just started to have longer naps...it was 20-45 mins until now with sometimes more time trying to settle her than actual sleep time.
Babies are hard work and you're doing a good job!!

Baby porridge apparently better than rice according to our pediatrician as the latter can contain arsenic. I normally dump a pot of purée fruit on top of the porridge to make it taste nice.

I can assure you from my complete fail with DS1 that you can follow all the food advice in the world and if your child wants to be a picky eater then they will so just try your best and see what works.

@Aria999

Baby porridge apparently better than rice according to our pediatrician as the latter can contain arsenic. I normally dump a pot of purée fruit on top of the porridge to make it taste nice.

I can assure you from my complete fail with DS1 that you can follow all the food advice in the world and if your child wants to be a picky eater then they will so just try your best and see what works.

Normal porridge (rolled or steel cut) is probably healthier than baby porridge.

@GrumpyHoonMain

Lol would that involve actual... cooking...?

😖

[quote Aria999]@GrumpyHoonMain

Lol would that involve actual... cooking...?

😖[/quote]
Haha

Joe Wicks is a personal trainer. He knows fuck all about weaning babies.

Yep!

He has zero education on child development and nutrition and only very limited experience (his own kids!)

As for the nutritionist bollocks - nutritionist is NOT a protected title meaning ANYONE can call themselves that who has zero education on the matter.

A dietician is a registered heath care professional who is actually trained in nutrition and related medical issues

I am neither but I am an ex nurse and former childminder and nanny who's cared for MANY babies and children over the years.

Bitter foods are bitter for a reason, they are unpalatable to little taste buds for a reason

They are harder to digest, make little tummies feel overly full and can cause upset tummies in excess. So nature makes it so that babies don't WANT to eat them.

This is particularly true of cruciferous veg like broccoli.

I think it's entirely possible the combination of the effects of this sort of veg on a little tummy and possibly swallowing more air as a result of trying to feed him these may mean he has had some trapped wind.

This can cause him to fart and burp more and make his stool looser and more orangey in colour (because it causes an increase in stomach acids)

It's very painful to lie on your back when you have trapped wind and can make you feel really nauseous too. Has he been sick?

Ditch the bitter foods, go with weaning foods that mothers have used for EONS - milk based "mushy" foods like porridge, purées of carrots, potato etc and crusts of bread to gum on

If he is teething then frozen carrot batons worked a treat for my dd and a few mindees where the parents were ok with me offering.

If you do this and the sleep doesn't improve he may be

Dropping a nap

Bugged by one of the usual suspects (temperature, lighting, noise, smells)

Have you accounted for the clock change or are you trying to put him down at eg 11am when his body is telling him it's only 10am?

He is going through or changing to a new phase of development - doesn't have to be specifically sleep related, may be about to hit a milestone, a growth spurt...

Have you moved his cot out of your room now he's hit 6 months?

Food wise you don't need to feed him anything you don't eat. Normal porridge or half a weetabix mixed with milk, just cook without salt if you don't already and give him a little of what you're having that's a suitable texture eg fork mashed bit of potato, carrot, mince, fish...

Watch the sauces that's where the salt will be.

Mashed banana or frontage frais for dessert - although not necessary to have dessert it's a way of introducing other foods, doesn't have to be straight after dinner can be a "supper" type deal

What support have you got op and how old are you?

I ask because it's actually quite worrying that you seem not that well informed about baby development to the point you thought joe wicks a suitable source of info

Try this instead

www.bda.uk.com/uploads/assets/cc3a409f-e774-4e60-a05b22071a9eb4fd/Weaning-food-fact-sheet.pdf

I'm sure nct are pretty good too

DON'T read weaning advice by unqualified celebrities OR sponsored by baby food companies - they are not concerned with your baby's health they just want you to buy their products!

I'm not anti baby food products, used them at times myself for convenience mainly when on days out or on holiday, but in my experience babies and children who are fed mostly commercially targeted products DO tend to end up fussy. They're very bland and tend to taste very similar despite supposed differing flavours.

Weaning is teaching your child to eat a healthy, varied and balanced diet and recognise when they're full.

You cannot achieve this unless you most of the time feed them roughly what you eat (assuming you eat healthily of course)

blw wasn't a "thing" when I had dd but looking at it I don't see a huge difference to how I weaned dd. To my mind being observant of baby's likes and dislikes, not pushing too hard to try and "fill them up" or rush them, letting them explore food with touch and smell and play is how we always did it! It's just been given a fancy name now and a lot of people are making a lot of money by claiming to be experts in it.

Read some good quality advice by actual child development and nutrition experts and also trust your baby to show you what is right for him

You really sound like you're doing a great job! With naps and weaning:

1. If it takes twenty minutes to settle, that's fine, try starting your nap routine at around the 2 hour mark so he is asleep within the 2.5 hours. Naps are harder to achieve later in the day so the 3rd could be on you/pram if it was easier.

1. Joe Wicks isn't off the mark in terms of the newest advice. The NHS states "Include vegetables that aren't so sweet, such as broccoli, cauliflower and spinach – this will help your baby get used to a range of flavours (rather than just the sweeter ones like carrots and sweet potato). This can help prevent them being fussy eaters as they grow up."

If you like the recipes from Joe Wicks then that's great. So long as you and your little one are enjoying the process and he is still taking milk, it will come.

You sound like you're doing everything you should be! It's just bad days and good days x

No one else seems to have mentioned, but my babies definitely went through some kind of fussy sleep regression at around 6 months, after they started solids. I put it down to their digestive system kicking up a fuss. This too shall pass!

I'd definitely try and drop to two naps, in the buggy ideally, and stop taking weaning advice from a fitness coach. Have you looked at baby led weaning? ie Feed baby what you eat. Gill Rapley at least has medical training (former midwife/HV) www.babyledweaning.com/

It’s difficult to respond to everybody as I’ve had so much good advice - thank you, I have read all the replies!

Have you looked at baby led weaning? ie Feed baby what you eat.

The problem is that DH and I eat a lot of oven meals. We’re not having ultra healthy food every day of fresh fish, potatoes and lots of veg (for example) that I could simply mash up for DS! I presume people who follow this approach must knock up delicious healthy meals from scratch every day, but that’s not us.

Rather than spend time cooking for baby and for you separately, make one meal in the same amount of time that you can all eat. You don't have to mash or puree things with baby led weaning.

@daisy86

It’s difficult to respond to everybody as I’ve had so much good advice - thank you, I have read all the replies!

Have you looked at baby led weaning? ie Feed baby what you eat.

The problem is that DH and I eat a lot of oven meals. We’re not having ultra healthy food every day of fresh fish, potatoes and lots of veg (for example) that I could simply mash up for DS! I presume people who follow this approach must knock up delicious healthy meals from scratch every day, but that’s not us.

I think that’s your answer really. You can’t expect your baby to eat food you aren’t.

As for Joe Wicks - the lady who wrote his books is an NHS dietician who I was referred to for my baby. So there’s a lot of bollocks on this thread. Bitter tastes are probably designed for someone like Op who doesn’t really eat veg herself.

So there’s a lot of bollocks on this thread. Bitter tastes are probably designed for someone like Op who doesn’t really eat veg herself.

Excuse me? Of course I eat veg

I think that’s your answer really. You can’t expect your baby to eat food you aren’t.

Why not? My baby doesn’t have a clue what food I eat and I want to give him the healthiest start possible. Just because I don’t want cauliflower for lunch doesn’t mean my baby shouldn’t have it.

OP, I had a flick through the Joe Wicks book and what I noticed more than the recipes (which I wouldn’t quibble with) was that his approach very much linked “what you do” to “what your baby does”. “We play BabyWicks tinkling classical music at each mealtime and that’s why she’s such a good water”, etc. I pretty much sat there with a smile on my face going “that your first baby, then, Joe?!” Whereas my experience is more that you can do it all by the book and get vastly different results with different children - because they’re individuals.

I have two, who were weaned in an identical way. One is very fussy still and won’t eat anything in sauce, although is much improved from 1-2 years when he wouldn’t eat anything I cooked (and I promise you my cooking is fine!). The other is known as Dustbin.

Personally, I’d try your DS on sweet potato and if he accepts that, you can start to mash things like broccoli into it - or offer them as finger foods.

Also, don’t be afraid to make life easy for yourself. My sister has a baby who naps in his cot: he gets stuff like homemade courgette fritters. Mine won’t sleep in his cot in the day for more than about the amount of time it would take to grate half a courgette and that’s on a good day. He gets scrambled egg, toast and cucumber sticks.

Good water? Good eater!

@daisy86 why would your baby want cauliflower for lunch if you as an adult don't? I think that it what pp was saying. How would you feel if someone mashed up some cauliflower and expected you to eat it on its own. You'd probably clamp your mouth shut. But carrot, sweet potato, I would probably give a try. I remember complaining because my baby wouldn't eat weetabix, someone said to me I don't blame them I wouldn't either. That made sense to me and stopped me being so anxious. If course he didn't want to eat plain weetabix, tastes like bloody cardboard. 😂

But carrot, sweet potato, I would probably give a try.

Well I wouldn’t particularly want carrot or sweet potato on its own for lunch either - what adult would? Perhaps I need to get a recipe book as I’m struggling with inspiration!

@daisy86 why don't you try some pouches? Babies often take them really well. Have you tried sweet potato or carrot? I wouldn't do recipes yet as it is best to introduce single veg first and also when they reject your recipes its even more disappointing as you batch cook a load up and then they reject it all. One thing that works for me every time is a tomato and all veg sauce whizzed in a blender and mashed pasta. One big jar of Passata, one kargeissh sweet potato, a carrot or two, two courgettes, a pepper, an aubergine. Chop up and simmer and then blend to a smooth ish puree.

I also alternate savoury pouches with my own savoury food as baby often accepts the punches and not my food. This way he opens up and is more accepting.

Thanks @Rubyroost. I was hoping to avoid the pouches as I wanted to give DS the healthiest possible start with totally fresh foods, but perhaps I will have to give them a try.

I also like Weetabix so maybe I'll give him a little bit of that mixed with some formula milk.

If you are looking into a recipe book for inspiration op I would recommend what mummy makes - all the meals in there are suitable from 6 month and there is also a snack section. She does have an instagram account if you want to look at some of her recipes first. I wish the book would have been out when my DS was starting weaning, he might not be such a fussy eater now!

@daisy86, I can't advise with the sleep I'm afraid as I have an awful sleeper and hence do everything 'wrong' just to get by; pram, feed to sleep, rocking, car, the works!

For weaning though, just try lots of different bits and see what sticks. Me and dh are a little like you guys I think; we don't live off take out or anything but we do have a lot of oven meals, jars etc that aren't suitable for the baby because of salt etc. Here's what we did/do...

When I was cooking vegetables for us, I'd make extra for ds, cook them a bit longer and mash them up and freeze them in ice cube trays. Then when needed, just heat them up. I did single tastes first, but was soon mixing them. I started with just mashed potatoes, then mixed in stuff like carrot, brocoli, leaks etc. Then I'd add cheese and herbs etc. This was interspersed with pouches. Honestly they're not the devil's work, although you'd think so the way some on here carry on. For starters they have to meet certain standards to even be allowed. Look at the ingredients, most are literally just vegetables and a bit of meat/herbs blended to whatever texture, depending on the age range. When I was more confident I offered toast fingers with soup to dip, fish cake (just the filling) cubes of cheese. Strips of omelette too. I never bothered with baby porridge, he had ready brek and now has wheatabix or shreddies.

I also second the pp who mentioned pasta in a tomato and veg sauce, that's always a winner here too 🙂

My are all teens and up now, but a few thoughts..

• Some babies thrive on routines, others are much happier to go with the flow.
• All of mine napped by either falling asleep when I fed them (50/50 I’d let them sleep on my lap versus put them down and get on with things) or they’d fall asleep in the car or buggy while we were out and about. I’d often deal with an overtired grumpy baby by going for a long walk or drive.
• Food before one is just for fun! They should still be getting their main calories and nutrients from milk until 12 months, so don’t worry (if I’d realised that with dc1 I could have saved myself a lot of stress).
• Baby pouches etc are fine, the rules around them are pretty strict about what can be in them. Mine all liked the hipp organic fruit jars (the blueberry flavour turned their poop an interesting colour though!)
• Babies don’t read the manuals! They are little individuals with likes and dislikes, who have good and bad days like the rest of us.

Be kind to yourself OP, this too shall pass. x

@daisy86

But carrot, sweet potato, I would probably give a try.

Well I wouldn’t particularly want carrot or sweet potato on its own for lunch either - what adult would? Perhaps I need to get a recipe book as I’m struggling with inspiration!

I really like the Young Gums book and Little Veggie Eats. Some great ideas in there. My general principle is that I'm happy for DS to eat anything that we have in the house and so this encourages me to make sure that my diet is much better too. Caveat that the obvious exception to this is booze!

Some simple ideas that worked well for us:
Jacket sweet potato topped with some cheese and creme fraiche/yoghurt
Toast with mushed up avocado
Crumpets either with peanut butter or made into a little pizza with tomato purée and cheese
DS also used to love very mild curries - a simple dhal was very popular. I used the BBC Good Food website a lot and just made stuff without any salt for him and added some for us. They have quite a lot of thick soups which worked well and I used to give DS some toast along side to dunk.