Horrific play date

[SapphosRock]

I am mortified. DD is 5 and in year 1. She is quite highly strung and has the occasional meltdown but otherwise just a normal 5 year old.

Obviously there have been no play dates due to lockdown so this was her first proper one. A lovely little girl in her class bubble (let’s call her Lily) invited her over after school.

I arranged to collect DD after an hour as I know she can get overtired so thought this would be enough. Had a big talk with DD about manners, playing games Lily wants to play as well as her own (she struggles with this), being kind. DD can be sweet and charming and was confident the play date would go well.

Well, I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life. Lily’s dad was clearly very ready for DD to leave. Apparently they couldn’t agree on what game to play and she’d kicked Lily’s bookcase over. She was wearing one of Lily’s dresses and refused to take it off. She then refused to leave. Had a full on meltdown when i tried to help get the dress off, screamed, shouted, ran into Lily’s Dad’s bedroom, pulled his curtains and tried to get in his bed, shouting ‘no no no no’ the entire time and ‘worst play date ever’.

I would have physically carried her out but I had baby DS with me too so couldn’t carry them both. I asked if we could return the dress at school tomorrow to make a quicker exit but this made Lily cry so I had to get it off DD.

No exaggeration DD kept up the meltdown for over half an hour with Lily and her dad staring at us with shocked faces. I was apologising profusely and trying to calm
DD down enough to leave. In the end I had to leave DS with them, carry DD to the car with her kicking, screaming and clawing at my face, lock her in the car and go back to retrieve DS. It was hideous.

How should I have handled that? She’s lost her screen time for a week and no more play dates for the foreseeable. When she calmed down she said she didn’t know why she got so angry and she made Lily a card to say sorry (unprompted).

I don’t know how that could have been avoided? I made sure she had a snack after school before going to Lily’s so she wasn’t hungry. Other kids just don’t behave like that.

How can I make sure that never happens again?

I don’t know why people keep telling you that you should have stayed @SapphosRock.

You weren’t invited to stay! If I had dd’s friend over for an hour, I wouldn’t want her mother and baby brother there, too.

We’ve all been there.

The only thing I’d suggest going forward is to be careful about what you say in front of her.

You asking if she could keep the dress might have reinforced the idea that she should or could get to keep it. I’m not judging, I 100% understand why you asked.

Other than that, I’d leave it now. Screen time for a week seems futile as I doubt she’ll ever remember why.

I’d suggest play days at yours for a while until she’s used to them. Although Lily might refuse to come!

I don’t think kids should get away with everything but equally I don’t think we should underestimate how difficult 2020 has been for them.

Adults have struggled massively, so of course children have too.

And that’s without even getting into potential SEN.

It does sound a bit extreme for a five year old so it may be there is some underlying issues but could also just been a bad day. They don't always know how to play. My dd is 6 and still doesn't really understand that when you have a play date over you have to treat them as a guest. I did a play date in y1 and the kid was a bit running by around the house like a lunatic and demanding all sorts. I didn't think she had an sen just she was a bit naughty plus over excited. Keep an eye on her and keep reinforcing expectations.

@mollyminniemo

Playdates can be utterly horrific, shows the best (but usually the worst) in your own and other kids.

This!! Also, I have a SEN kid 1 year older than your DD and I didn't for 1 MOMENT jump to the ridiculous conclusions that she must have severe issue for being annoying and throwing a tantrum at a playdate??!! In fact my DS with SEN is often better behaved-especially when having to leave a playdate than his 4 year old sister who doesn't have SEN! Stupid judging here.

@LimitIsUp I also have a daughter with autism. So I'm also coming at it with insight.

@Haworthia I agree with this. I'm awaiting diagnosis myself, though I am very sure I have ASD and have a dc diagnosed. There's a tendency to think that appearing to cope means autism isn't having much impact on their life and a diagnosis will not help. I think I've appeared to cope for most of my life, but actually the fallout has been huge - stress, depression, anxiety, underachievement, damaged relationships, and much more. But I've managed to function in the neurotypical world and most people can't tell I'm autistic, so that must be ok...

For any parents who have been told that there's no need for a diagnosis, I'd be asking whether this assessment is based on how well their child masks, and then ask what the cost of keeping up that mask might be to their child, both now and in later life. Self-knowledge is normally a very useful thing, but in the case of ASD is often dismissed as a damaging label. It's also worth reading about how the autism spectrum doesn't mean some people only have it 'mildly' - this explains it pretty well.

It's been a difficult year for everyone, maybe it's just been too much for your daughter after the long lockdown. My oldest DS who was by far the best behaved of my children could be a nightmare when I collected him from playdates and I had to drag him out from under people's beds on more than one occasion.

He's now a well balanced adult and a father who will be mortified when I remind him of those occasions.

Don't beat yourself up OP Lily's father was probably thanking his lucky stars it wasn't his child who was playing up.

Try and put this behind you.

Your dd was clearly not “being naughty” but was clearly feeling completely overwhelmed by by the whole situation. It’s quite likely she was feeling really excited but also anxious and it all went downhill...

My dd, who is a young teen now, used to behave a bit like this if feeling overwhelmed - maybe not quite as dramatically, but similar stuff occasionally. I have often wondered if she has ASD but have we have not felt the need for a diagnosis as she is just her own unique self and has become a very well adjusted child as time has gone on. She did see someone for a while to help with anxiety. Anxiety in children can manifest itself as terrible behaviour.

@Ori32

Oh God, I think any parent has had similar at some point in their parenting "journey." Unfortunately kids are like this occasionally! They have meltdowns and embarrass you. Don't worry about it. It happens to us all!

I remember taking one of my sons to a playgroup where they had some pushalong cars, and one particular car he got fixated on and wouldn't get out of. I'd never been to this particular group before so didn't know any of the other mums. He hit two other children who even came close, and in the end I literally had to drag him screaming and kicking out of it so that someone else could have a go. I thought he'd calm down after 10 minutes looking at something else but no, he howled and bellowed and threw himself on the floor, arching his back, drumming his heels, throwing any toy within reach across the room.

Tried to pick him up, he tore at my hair, threw my glasses on the floor, screamed in my face. Was conscious that the hall had just gone deadly silent. It was hell, I could feel everyone's eyes burning into me.

Then he wriggled free and rushed back over to the car, wrenched the door open and (still crying) just sat down on the kid in the driving seat. God knows how I managed to get him out and then into his buggy. I think the experience was so humiliating and awful I've blocked it from my memory! I was a shell of a person that day.

I didn't return!

DS 2 has a complete shitfit once in the supermarket, by the vegetable section after wanting to play with the mushrooms. I had a herculean fight to get him back in his buggy (he was usually a good boy in the shops!) Again, clawing at my face, my hair.

The screaming was so loud it literally brought people to a halt with their trolleys. I abandoned that trip too but had to pay for three mushrooms.

The thing is most of the stories of these stories are mostly 'one offs' or not very regular occurrences for most parents .

If your child behaves like this on a regular basis, that is the time to consider getting an assessment. My ds would do things similar to this several times a week, almost always when he was with other children (playdates, school, playgroups, softplay,parties etc).

When he was with DH and I alone or with other family or very close friends he was used to in a quiet environment, he was fine from the age of 4 onwards, though he had some humdinger tantrums with us when he was younger

I have so many memories of lifting and removing a tantrumming and screaming child from these situations that I can't remember specific incidents much, though there are a few that stand out in particular

All I remember is the feeling of panic in me as I could see the reaction start and the worry at every single event that DS went to (not that he went to many) that something would happen. Yes he was 'that child'

He did get a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD at 6 years old. All children can behave like this sometimes, the difference is on how often this happens and whether it gets in the way of you and your child's life . Only you can answer that op. Not strangers on the internet

Sounds like a full on tantrum...with knobs on.

There are definitely many more parents being attacked by their young children these days.. Quote ''She was clawing my face''

I have seen children hit, kick, scratch and slap a parent, and the parent {males too} just stands there looking helpless.

Surely there can't have been an explosion of Autistic children being born..It must be partly down to 'fashion' in child rearing?..Sometimes one just has to pull rank and be the one in charges rather than wheedling at a child ''at their level''.

Sounds very strong to be able to kick a book case over.

You need to regain control...It sounds as if OP was expecting bad behaviour, because of the pep talk beforehand about 'manners'.

Good luck!

RickOShay and SmileyClare are right. Kids are dealing with a lot at the moment, and most parents will be understanding of meltdowns, your DD is very young. Plus, kids have meltdowns even in 'normal' times. Next time stay with her, she's a little young and not used to being alone in a strange environent. If meltdowns carry on, try reading the book 'The Explosive Child'. It's not solved all our problems by a long shot, but it relates to the issue of explosive children in a way that I haven't found in any other parenting book. The biggest thing that's helped us is talking with DC about the issue, identifying it, naming it, acknowledging it, committing to solving it as a team, trying to find strategies to deal with / prevent explosions/meltdowns. Find an age-appropriate book on anger management, maybe. Talk about emotions and regulating them. Make a list of strategies. For you - stay calm at all times (sounds like you did). Good luck OP, you're not alone.

Also this:

FWIW, at that age if one of DS's little friends had a melt down, I just used to internally heave a sigh of relief and think "thank fuck it's not my one playing up for a change..."

Thanks @leafylife. I know it’s a bit of a thread derail but if anyone has a child with autistic traits, they WILL come across these anti-label attitudes. And I think it’s hard to understand the heavy burden of going through life undiagnosed unless you’ve lived it yourself. It’s a heavy burden of self-hatred and wondering why you fail at things that other people do effortlessly.

Surely there can't have been an explosion of Autistic children being born..It must be partly down to 'fashion' in child rearing?

No love, it simply means more children are being diagnosed because people are more aware of autism and are able to see the traits. Autism wasn’t a thing in my day... that’s because children (and adults) were dismissed as naughty, stupid and weird.

The thing is most of the stories of these stories are mostly 'one offs' or not very regular occurrences for most parents.

Yes, this is an important distinction. And these “occurrences” carrying on beyond an age where most children have learned to regulate to to a certain extent are also a red flag that there might be other issues at play (which is what I think a previous poster was trying to say with the “autism starts at 5” comment; of course it doesn’t start then, but behaviours can become more noticeable as a child gets older).

Only the OP knows how often her daughter completely loses control like this, and what triggers it.

I agree that it is most likely to be a combination of tiredness, excitment and feeling overwhelmed. Your punishment is a little harsh too. At 5, there are only a handful of people I’d leave my dc with including grandparents, aunts and uncles (who are all happy to be firm with dc and nip any nonsense in the bud) and a couple of close friends whom I know share a similar outlook and wouldn’t bat an eyelid at a meltdown. Tbf, I think I’d be weary about inviting a 5year old I didn’t know too well for a playdate where I didn’t invite a parent too for cake and coffee. By 7 or 8 I find that dc are far more reliable and confident to be left with schoolfriends and their parents. Please remember that there’s a world of difference between Reception 2/year 1 (which I’m presuming if age 5) and year 3/4.

I would text the parents a profuse apology and not do any more playdates for a looooong time. Not as a punishment, but because it's too much and not right for your dd. I had a humiliating one when my ds was about 4 and I really did none/minimal until he was about 9 and had found his own friends and there were no further problems.

@Haworthia I agree entirely!

*Chalk it up to tiredness, being in an unfamiliar house without you, five year old squabbles, whatever. You won’t get an invitation again but that’s OK grin

I hate playdates personally. Loathe them. Even the nicest kids seem to turn their noses up at every innocuous snack I offer them. The worst ones jump on the sofas and trash my kids’ bedrooms.*

She's 5. Why does she have screen time?
No screen time. Ever. (hour of tv perhaps)
Practice living and behaving well in the real time!
Also directly after school terrible time for playdate - everyone tired and in need of down time (not on a screen).

I’m sorry that sounds horrible. I’m surr you’ve tried to be the best mum you can but it sounds like your daughter thinks this kind of behaviour is acceptable. By 5 she should know better. I think you need parenting help. I read someone jumped to behavioural disorders, which may or may not be the case. But your daughter needs to learn about boundaries and it’s the job of her parents to demonstrate them to her. This goes beyond punishment. Punishments in my opinion don’t actually work very well.

FWIW I have one SEN child and one NT. Both have misbehaved at playdates. So this on its own tells you nothing IMO.

It also doesn't sound like the Dad was that helpful/sympathetic which made it worse for you. Sympathies, OP, it happens to us all (and pls ignore PP sniping about screen time!).

My eldest can be a bit tricky with social situations when he was younger I had the play meet ups at our house so I could prep and hover or I would suggest a meet up in the park so both parents are there. Now he’s a little older he’s a little calmer and more used to social situations. Try not to be too hard on your self or her, you tried it and it didn’t work out this time but just adjust it for next time. Also maybe try and get to the bottom of why she did some of the things she did and talk to her about how she would like friends to treat her and her belongings if they came to her house. Another idea is to play Out situations with teddies or figures to see what she says.

I agree that children in general are able to control emotions more readily after a certain age but not all mature at the same rate and the difference between a September and summer born is huge. Some have more challenges and this doesn’t necessarily determine a child has asd - I know not everyone is saying this. Is it a red flag as suggested upthread? I think it is something to indicate there may be an issue of some description and to look in to it.

I can only give my example. My dd stopped developing emotionally when she started school. She suddenly realised how ill I was and stayed emotionally 4. My friend said she’d been concerned for a while and finally brought it up with me half way through year 1, a few months shy of dds 6th birthday. I in turn knew something was wrong but was too ill to grasp what. We employed a child psychologist, who helped us all and by the time dd was 6, she was emotionally where she needed to be.

Lockdown has been a very artificial situation. It is highly likely some children have stopped developing emotionally due to stress and worry, especially those, like ops dd, who has had a lot of challenges. We know is well publicised as a potential mental health crisis event.

I’d just like to highlight this to the odd few, who’ve been harsh about a 5 yo on this thread. And state the comments say more about them than they do about a little tiny dot.

I also say embarrassing but probably normal (unless it's happening often). New sibling, recent return to school= increased
likelihood of bad behaviour. Transitions/ leaving are often hard.

We were once on the receiving end of this. Play date OK until it was time to go. Then the little girl took DDs favourite Barbie doll and wouldn't give it back, ran away from her mum and hit under the bed, refused to leave and finally wet herself whilst dissolving in a screaming rage on the doorstep. I felt nothing but sympathy for her poor mum. No blame at all. They are good friends now aged 13 and the girl appears to be NT.

My worst play date ever was all my own fault. Failed to enquire re: dietary requirements and the mum arrived to find her Jewish DD tucking into a plate of pork sausages. Didn't live that down for a while. She asked for them next time she came as well