Bottle feeding culture in the UK

[TeenyQueen]

This morning I saw a Facebook photo of my former colleague's newborn baby being bottle fed by her older sister (toddler). I suppose it was a cute photo, but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that anyone should be able to bottle feed a baby. What I mean is not just the baby's parents but all sorts of friends and relatives. Isn't infant feeding part of bonding? When did it become a 'thing' for siblings to feed a newborn?

I have three issues with this. 1. Breastfeeding mums are still being told that breastfeeding in public is undesirable and photos of breastfeeding are censored on social media (but it's ok to have pictures of bottle feeding).

1. We seem to be moving away from this idea that feeding a baby is part of social interaction and bonding between the baby and parent.
2. We're teaching young children that bottle feeding is the normal and usual thing to do and breastfeeding is not.

FYI the baby was in a completely wrong position for feeding anyway and didn't look very comfortable.

Any thoughts?

Breastfeeding does depend a lot on what support the new mother has.

I was only able to breastfeed my dd every hour (literally) because my family come from a culture that very much supports a new mother.
I didn't have to change dd, make food or anything really. My sister, mother and my DH would hand her to me and the rest they would do (unless I wanted to do it), even during the night. There is an expectation that the baby doesn't leave the house for at least 2 weeks unless really necessary, which is nice because it allows the mother to relax and not have to bounce straight back into the daily grind.

It must be incredibly hard to breastfeed with little support, especially if there are problems.
Its all well and good having information but it's real life help that most mothers need.

@sqirrelfriends @bluebluezoo and I feel that all new mothers should receive the support to feed their babies how they wish. It's already been said but the difference from area to area is astounding. My area was all about BF and no support for anyone who wanted to FF at all. There are (or were ore covid) physical classes each day by trained professionals and latch consultants were on hand 24/7 at the hospital and did bi weekly visits at the classes. I think it really is dependent on your area.

Yeah because there isnt La Leche League, the Breastfeeding Network, endless breastfeeding support groups, breastfeeding counsellors, lactation specialists, community midwives and health visitors, NCT, books, websites with tips like mumsnet, peer support workers etc.

If the above isnt enough, what would be? Sending every woman home after giving birth with a lactation specialist and breastfeeding videos being injected into their eyeballs like a clockwork orange?

If baby is hungry and not feeding properly, give them formula until you figure it out. They are a human being, you wouldn't starve older children, and it is unthinkable to me that some people are happy to let their baby be hungry and uncomfortable for a couple of days until the weekly breastfeeding group. I would never let my baby go hungry to fulfil my own ideals of motherhood.

I just know that what likely saved me from PND was to breast feed and cosleep. Allowing myself to totally give into motherhood rather than trying to 'get back to normal', retain as much as possible from my old life, or follow the social norm. I want people out there to know that this is also something that can (for some) help. It totally depends on your person, your personal history and your circumstances. People need to know that its a cultural thing here that many people are quick to blame breast feeding for things where it may not actually have been at fault, or formula may not actually help. Even midwives at the hospital. For those where formula is the right solution, of course they should feel they can choose whatever is right for them.

Like for blue for me reading kellymom was my saviour. If I had been pushed into FF against my personal will, I (personally, given my own person and circumstances) would have struggled with that later on. Is it wrong to point out it can go either way?

@grumpyorange who exactly is making women feel guilty? The NHS, HCPs? Other mums? Mumsnet? Asking a woman why they FF their DC isn't blaming a woman. In my experience you actually don't ask other mums but rather people tell you when you get to know them, I've never asked another mum in person why they FF. No one walks around town looking for FF mums in order to make them feel bad. HCP have a professional duty to talk about infant feeding and make you aware of the pros and cons. If that makes you feel judged you need to discuss that with the person in question. Do I judge if I see a FF mother? I assume that she had difficulty with BF or that she's combi feeding or using expressed milk because she doesn't want to bf in public. That's what I assume because I grew up in a culture where majority of women breastfeed.

@bluebluezoo yes when I bf you'd hear somewhere if it hurt it was wrong, then someone would tell you if it hurt that was normal, then you'd read on MN whatever you do don't use nipple shields or a dummy! Then I had various Midwife's say she did and didn't have a tongue tie.

There too much out there.

The Midwife's and health visitors didn't give any indication on what to expect day to day.

Formula was a hell of a lot easier

@Leah00 you keep talking about you and what made you feel better when this is the baby's food we are talking about, not yours.

That's where this is going wrong - it is all about the mother's 'experience' and not about making sure the baby is happy and full.

@Leah00 as you've said it is different for every woman and as I've said below every single woman should receive support no matter what their choices etc. As you said you would have struggled with not BF later on which is what many women face, then reading threads like these where it is shoved at them that their baby is more likely to have this or that and they are getting second best does nothing to help this.

I never said that formula would automatically help but women are thankfully free to make that choice for themselves and shouldn't feel bad for making it.

If I was a new mum torn between the two I personally wouldn't go onto mumsnet to get information but I'd google or speak to a HCP so I really feel that the constant pushing of breast is best can be damaging.

For Christs sake, of course my main consideration was my baby's needs. I was responding to the claim that breast feeding can cause/worsen PND.

@TeenyQueen Asking a woman why they FF their DC isn't blaming a woman.

No it's not but the follow up of well you do know breast is best or oh so you didn't even try BFing or well you do know your baby is at risk of xyz is damaging.

@Wolfgirrl* Yeah because there isnt La Leche League, the Breastfeeding Network, endless breastfeeding support groups, breastfeeding counsellors, lactation specialists, community midwives and health visitors, NCT, books, websites with tips like mumsnet, peer support workers etc.

If the above isnt enough, what would be? Sending every woman home after giving birth with a lactation specialist and breastfeeding videos being Yeah because there isnt La Leche League, the Breastfeeding Network, endless breastfeeding support groups, breastfeeding counsellors, lactation specialists, community midwives and health visitors, NCT, books, websites with tips like mumsnet, peer support workers etc.

If the above isnt enough, what would be? Sending every woman home after giving birth with a lactation specialist and breastfeeding videos being injected into their eyeballs like a clockwork orange?

If baby is hungry and not feeding properly, give them formula until you figure it out. They are a human being, you wouldn't starve older children, and it is unthinkable to me that some people are happy to let their baby be hungry and uncomfortable for a couple of days until the weekly breastfeeding group. I would never let my baby go hungry to fulfil my own ideals of motherhood.*

There is so much wrong with what you said

I couldn't access any help for DS's tongue and lip tie. Appointments weren't forthcoming, the breastfeeding network drop in sessions advertised online didn't exist and the health visitor at the weigh in clinic said all they could do was maybe arrange a call with someone which- I didn't see the point in that since the issue was physical. We did eventually see a paediatrician privately for an issue partially caused by DS gulping due to bad latch but he advised against cutting the ties. How is any of this good support for a breastfeeding mother?

And where have any of us said you should let a baby go hungry?!

Sorry, I don't know what happened to my cut and paste there

If baby is hungry and not feeding properly, give them formula until you figure it out. They are a human being, you wouldn't starve older children, and it is unthinkable to me that some people are happy to let their baby be hungry and uncomfortable for a couple of days until the weekly breastfeeding group. I would never let my baby go hungry to fulfil my own ideals of motherhood

Thing is, i had people telling my baby was hungry, my milk wasn’t rich enough, maybe they weren’t getting enough...because they were cluster feeding and not going longer than 2 hours in the day - plus the runny poo meant my milk “was disagreeing with them”

My family’s only experience was ff. if a baby doesn’t sleep for 4 hours between feed they must be “starving”.

Fwiw i was also “starving” her because I refused to give solids before 5.5 months.

An aquaintance of mine also told me a story about how she “helped” a young mum in hospital by telling her her baby was “clearly” starving and she should just give formula. Because she could hear the baby crying across the room.

The crux if the issue is correct information is not being disseminated- and I include in that when a baby isn’t thriving on bm and does need formula.

If bf and bf behaviour was normalised it would be easier to recognise when a baby isn’t thriving, and then this stigma of not trying hard enough or somehow not wanting to do the best for baby by ff. aside from it being a choice, obviously.

We rely too much on numbers and scales and have lost the ability to look holistically at a baby and see problems (or not).

Who made you the queen of feeding babies?

Oh and for the record my baby was on formula prescribed from a doctor.

I assume that she had difficulty with BF or that she's combi feeding or using expressed milk because she doesn't want to bf in public. That's what I assume because I grew up in a culture where majority of women breastfeed.

Add medical requirement to your judgy list of assumptions.

Add freedom of choice to the list!!

@Parker231 yes that too!

God this thread is everything that is wrong with motherhood. So absolutely depressing.

@Sipperskipper it is!

I think a few posters on here have serious issues over the subject, I'm assuming some are in the baby stage so when they come out of it, it will be a big shock that there is more to parenting than infant feeding

@raaa I am years out of that stage but find the OP really offensive.

There is TOO MUCH 'support' for breastfeeding if anything.

Have you actually tried to access breastfeeding support yourself?

The NHS does encourage breastfeeding, yes. But I and others I know found the actual breastfeeding support to be incredibly patchy.

My baby was going on losing weight after birth. Every midwife / HV I spoke to (and there were many) just said “you don’t have enough milk” and told me to switch to formula.

It turned out that my baby had a tongue tie, which was finally diagnosed a couple of weeks later. After that breastfeeding got easier. There is support available, yes. But it’s inconsistent and sometimes very unhelpful. And the fact that so many women try breastfeeding and soon give it up suggests that as well.

I am currently exclusively breastfeeding a 3 month old going on 4 months. It’s going amazingly well. A total doddle. And even I have found the OP - and indeed this thread awfully depressing - and has I been feeding formula I would have felt very bad at various points. I would never see a bottle being given to a baby and feel bad for said baby, or think it’s bonding any less with mum Than DD with me. Just doesn’t cross my mind. I also would never dream of making it my job to find out why someone hasn’t breastfed. I’d make it my job to see I never judge another new parent in any way at all. But mostly i would be super cautious of the sorts of discussions I post and take part in and how I contribute to THese during a pandemic when everyone - particularly parents and new parents in some ways - is struggling to cope. I’d just make lives a bit easier.

@Cherryblossomsnow I can see why her and a few others have definitely come across rude

Ffs. Seriously? Get off your high horse. I breastfed for a while then moved to bottle. My toddler felt real jealously with his baby sibling so I helped him to feed his sibling the bottle. They bonded and ever since then he has cared for him. Bonding is not just for mum. It is for whole household.