Bottle feeding culture in the UK

[TeenyQueen]

This morning I saw a Facebook photo of my former colleague's newborn baby being bottle fed by her older sister (toddler). I suppose it was a cute photo, but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that anyone should be able to bottle feed a baby. What I mean is not just the baby's parents but all sorts of friends and relatives. Isn't infant feeding part of bonding? When did it become a 'thing' for siblings to feed a newborn?

I have three issues with this. 1. Breastfeeding mums are still being told that breastfeeding in public is undesirable and photos of breastfeeding are censored on social media (but it's ok to have pictures of bottle feeding).

1. We seem to be moving away from this idea that feeding a baby is part of social interaction and bonding between the baby and parent.
2. We're teaching young children that bottle feeding is the normal and usual thing to do and breastfeeding is not.

FYI the baby was in a completely wrong position for feeding anyway and didn't look very comfortable.

Any thoughts?

And this thread goes to show no matter what you do some cunt will judge you for it. There are turkey some awful people in the world.

Truly *

Interesting thought but hasn't come across well! I agree that it should be one main carer feeding a newborn, but having help for a couple of those feeds per day is perfectly acceptable as long as the main carer is doing them consistently. Little children constantly want to get involved. Hopefully this was just a cute photo of the sibling 'trying to help' and isn't how the baby is really fed and he/she is fed by a safe adult in reality!
It's hard to know though.

I agree our culture is messed up, especially the fact that breasts are seen initially as sexual objects and not comfort and food for babies disturbs me. I always thought this, but even I felt odd about the whole thing before I started breastfeeding. I knew it was wrong but.I found it weird and didnt even know how it worked! So so glad I chose to do it though and luckily for me it worked out. Now it is normalised in my circle. You just don't properly see it on tv or anything though!

The benefits of breastfeeding are most notable at a population level, but individual children are very unlikely to have a better or worse start because of how they were fed.

We...yes exactly!

We*

@princesstwinkle I never said and HAVE never said that FF is disgusting. I also didn't say that making a toddler pose for a cutesy bottle feeding photo (or maybe she liked it) is disgusting, I said I didn't understand why someone would do that. Coming from a culture where breastfeeding is a norm it's weird to see lots of posts of bottle feeding, as in 'Here's aunty Jo feeding little James and now it's uncle John's turn. For me infant feeding isn't some kind of a shared event where people 'should have a go'. I know that probably sounds really weird to people and lots will disagree with me. I guess for most people letting a sibling have a go is normal, it's not something I've grown up with.

Out of curiosity OP, where are you from? I think you are making a valid point but it's a very sensitive topic here in the UK as we have very low breastfeeding rates and often it's because people can't despite wanting to. For one thing, the NHS still dont properly check for or cut tongue ties.

One of the biggest concerns was that mums were having to change their diet to BF due to infant allergies therefore more studies need to be conducted on this.

I expect what they meant was that mums were being told to change their diet based on unsubstantiated ideas about allergens going through breastmilk. This may horrify some but to date there is no evidence. Latest research suggests that allergens can’t get through breastmilk in enough quantities to cause a reaction in vast majority of babies, even the few who are allergic (cmpa is pushed by the formula industry as it means doctors prescribe specialist More expensive milks and it also undermines breastfeeding). It’s actually a perfect example of the way misinformation And dodge advertising filters down to the public. At our local b/f group at one point half the mums there were following a dairy free diet in advice of various hcps, most likely completely unnecessarily.

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5056

@HelloItsmeAgain1 I'm from Scandinavia. I probably could have worded the op a bit differently but I'm genuinely baffled by attitudes towards bf in the UK.

Is it quite different over there then @TeenyQueen? What other differences have you noticed? Scandinavia always comes across as being much more modern and child focussed.

I knew as soon as I saw that this thread had 500 posts it would have kicked off probably from about page2 but possibly even from the very beginning.

The worst thing about these threads is that women who FF always seem to feel that they need to come and justify their choices for having done so,even to the point that you then get BF posters saying things like “your reasons are perfectly understandable” how patronising.

At the end of the day it’s nobody’s business how anyone decided to feed their baby.Even if they just didn’t want to breastfeed that is their prerogative,and given the difficulty some women have doing that even with support it’s understandable to see why some women would choose not to.

And in truth no-one with children over the age of about two gives a shit how your baby was fed and why. They really don’t.

We need to get past this idea that people should justify their choices. As for saying that a picture of a baby being fed by a sibling normalises bottlefeeding, newsflash, bottlefeeding is normal. Just because some don’t do it doesn’t make those who do wrong.

Rather than judging people for their choices people should concentrate on their own.

princess See I honestly wouldn't get upset or feel judged by your other questions. If there was a study about the importance of no screen time or organic food or private schooling I'd read it with interest and do my best to do what I can for my child to have the best start to life. If its not possible 100%, say we can't afford to buy 100% organic food or send them to private school, I'd feel sad and bad about it but I wouldn't be defensive towards those pointing out the factual benefits because I'd know deep down that I'd done my utmost. So I honestly don't understand the need to lash out and call the OP judgemental and a bitch if people truly felt comfortable with their choice.

So I don't understand why people wouldn't be interested in receiving more information, and would instead just lash out and denounce it as judgement or 'it must be untrue'. To me information is helpful and food for thought appreciated.

@AlternativePerspective words of wisdom!

FF mums either feel they have to justify or in some cases asked to explain why from bf mums under the premise of 'curiosity' so the mum can deem whether it's acceptable or not.

I've said my reasons because I'm not sensitive to the subject and have no regrets and I understand why some do get defensive.

I also have a child over 2 and it's so true no one gives a shit anymore that phase is over

@princesstwinkle on a thread discussing different types of school, TV and food it wouldn't be judgemental to point out any pros or cons because its the whole point of having a discussion. Surely if you found that sort of thing triggering you'd avoid altogether.

@SnuggyBuggy but BF mums on this thread has said its judgemental to state that when child gets to x age there is no difference at all. And the differences are negligible in a developed country at best?

Surely that's then just having a discussion?

It's a debatable point though

FF mums either feel they have to justify or in some cases asked to explain why from bf mums

I hated bf at baby groups etc as I’d nearly always have someone come up and tell me their tale of how they couldn’t breastfeed.

For a start I’m really not bothered if you ff. your choice. You don’t need to justify that choice to me.

Second in the vast majority of cases the “couldn’t” appeared to be down to misinformation. Cluster feeding meaning no milk, the apparent rule that everyone “knows you can’t bf a 10lb baby”, baby not sleeping through at 6 weeks so they obviously weren’t getting enough milk, not being able to express meaning no milk, the usual.

Of course I’d smile politely and nod sympathetically, but a big part of me did want to tell them all that is totally normal and it’s a shame that bf support in this country is so crap.

I much preferred it when people had the confidence to just say “Ididn’t want to”. I could say good for you and move on.

^ This

I feel exactly the same blue

The UK is lucky to have @TeenyQueen - not that anyone's migration background should even matter in this discussion. Post reported.

@Leah00 - I’ve no problem in receiving information on any topic, it’s a part of life. I read information, listen to opinions and make an informed decision as to what to do.

@bluebluezoo I can imagine that's frustrating also..

There's a reason why they feel they have to justify as theres also a batshit woman who starts hitting you with facts and says things like this .....

But people who choose to FF don't give their DC the 'best' start in life. Nutritionally they give them the second best (but in most cases still good enough) start to life. In some cases the nutritional 'second best' is outweighed by other concerns that do make it the 'overall' best. But those who choose to FF just 'because they fancy it' are choosing the second best. Absolutely your choice, but don't go around telling others it's the best, when factually it isn't.

There's always*

But there it is again. When a woman says they didn’t produce milk/baby wasn’t being satisfied etc people seem to feel the need to say “well I’d rather they just admitted they didn’t want to bf.” How do you know those things didn’t happen for them? You don’t.

Before formula babies died because some women didn’t produce enough milk. The more wealthy had wet nurses or in some families everyone who had babies could bf those who couldn’t bf. And there have even been cases on here from posters who took their babies to hospital and it transpired that despite taking BF they were losing weight rapidly.

I don’t give a shit who judges me for my choices. I didn’t produce milk, no idea why,and no,I didn’t undergo tests etc it was more important that my baby actually be fed than me needing to go on some long protracted journey and listen to him screaming.

But in the past people have said that if I didn’t undergo tests then I don’t actually know I didn’t produce milk. Err,I think that considering I was there and they weren’t gives me better knowledge than them actually.

But my baby is seventeen now. Nobody actually cares if he was bf or not.There is literally no difference once they reach the age of about two.And there is a study to back up every claim, although interestingly when it’s about the advantages of BF these studies must be accepted but if the study is that there is little difference then the formula companies must somehow have been involved.