Bottle feeding culture in the UK

[TeenyQueen]

This morning I saw a Facebook photo of my former colleague's newborn baby being bottle fed by her older sister (toddler). I suppose it was a cute photo, but I fundamentally disagree with the idea that anyone should be able to bottle feed a baby. What I mean is not just the baby's parents but all sorts of friends and relatives. Isn't infant feeding part of bonding? When did it become a 'thing' for siblings to feed a newborn?

I have three issues with this. 1. Breastfeeding mums are still being told that breastfeeding in public is undesirable and photos of breastfeeding are censored on social media (but it's ok to have pictures of bottle feeding).

1. We seem to be moving away from this idea that feeding a baby is part of social interaction and bonding between the baby and parent.
2. We're teaching young children that bottle feeding is the normal and usual thing to do and breastfeeding is not.

FYI the baby was in a completely wrong position for feeding anyway and didn't look very comfortable.

Any thoughts?

Yep
OP saying that they would judge someone for sending their kids to school with crisps has nothing to do with this thread, in which she has judged someone for sharing a picture of a baby being formula fed.

I get a little chuckle that the reason I've been arguing on my phone for people to not get judged for their feeding choices is because I've been attached to my breast pump for the last half hour.

@sqirrelfriends I’m not being an arsehole about screens - like with feeding I really have no string feelings about how others parent their children - what I’m saying is that people who are so passionate and vocal about BF will bang the drum of WHO advice etc, but are never the same when it comes to anything else, such as WHO advice on screen time. Why not?

A 2014 study by Brunel University and UNICEF UK found that increasing rates at bf for at least 4 months from 7% to 45% would save the NHS at least £40 million per year. National breastfeeding rates are a public health issue, hence people are interested in this topic. Low bf rates indicate a lack of awareness and support, which again is a national health issue. This has been clearly highlighted on this thread with statements saying that bf and ff are pretty much the same anyway so we might as well ff because it's easier and less hassle for the mum.

This!

OP from what you have described, your feeding experience sounds relatively straightforward and like you were still managing to get plenty of rest. My best friend had a similar experience with her children. When I was pregnant with DD that’s what I was expecting, and was very keen to breastfeed. Even after a traumatic section, sepsis and a week in hospital I persevered. But as I’ve said upthread, it didn’t get easier and I was getting more and more exhausted, and stopped at 6 weeks. Wish I had done so earlier as I may have actually enjoyed some of those early weeks.

My other friend had a similar experience to me, but has continued to persevere. At 9 months she is at breaking point.

I think it’s clear from this thread that people have different experiences of breastfeeding, and that therefore informs what they decide to do - I don’t really see why people feel so passionately about what other people are doing!

Just curious but hasn't the whole formula feed on demand thing thrown a bit of a spanner in the works? It just seems like the worst of both worlds to me in that you have neither the convenience of routine nor of having milk on tap.

@Sipperskipper and a lot of have no experience of breastfeeding because they dismiss it straight away thinking it'll be too much hard work. I'm sorry to hear that you struggled to breastfeed, I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who wants to bf and tries to do it. As I've said before any bf is better than never doing it at all.

If your friend is struggling that badly I hope you're supporting her by looking up phone numbers or social media groups for local breastfeeding support.

I used the Tommee tippee prep machine which makes a bottle in 2 mins - puts on tin hat prepares to be shot down

@Raaaa - I give the Perfect Prep machine to friends when they have their babies (unless they say they are bf). I wish they had been around when mine were babies.

I’m pretty sure that most Ffeeding isn’t on demand. Most people stick to a schedule of some sort, at least everyone I’ve ever known who ff does. You are also supposed to pace feed formula, but if no one shows you I’m not sure how new parents would know this. Another case for the nhs to educate on safe FF. They do still advise that b/fed babies be fed every 3-4 hours which I think leads to certain expectations based on a formula schedule and people worry when that goes out the window.

I know PP machines are a godsend to many, and I know everyone uses them and I’m sure I would too if the alternative was waiting half and hour in the middle of the night. But the nhs doesn’t recommend them because when they were tested independently the water wasn’t hot enough for long enough to kill pathogens in the powder. Lots of people still think that water has to be hot to sterilise the water. The powder is basically a perfect breeding ground for bacteria and can be contaminated from the factory (there have been several major recalls in the last few years). Again it’s a risk, a small risk, but how many people actually know about what risks they are taking if the nhs refuses to discuss it with new parents?

@Parker231 yeah they're brilliant! My mum said the same

I have that photo, my 3 year old cradling his brother. He was desperate to try.

He half the baby for a few seconds alone, I was then straight back to him helping. He loves that photo, loves his brother and was bottle fed because I was very sick and on antibiotics at the time.

Judge away, but I think it's an awful post

This website is the absolute BEST for info on safe formula feeding. And all other aspects of infant feeding actually. Independent, clear advice.

www.firststepsnutrition.org/making-infant-milk-safely

@Peapod29 regarding the machine I just used the recommended filters, cleaned it strictly and monitored my baby - if she had fell ill I would have looked into why this is and if I thought it was the machine I would of course stop.

It was a risk I took and had no repercussions

@sqirrelfriends I never ever wanted to breastfeed my reasons are below:

1. I suffer from depression and anxiety, I therefore worried that if I was BF and couldn't receive any help I would spiral.
2. I have major body issues to the point where even in the hot of summer I will wear jeans and a long sleeved top. The idea of feeding in public for me would be a complete no go.
3. I did a lot of research into the difference between BF and FF. studies were very bias imo. Every single one had a long list of limitations and every single one stated that it could also be just because of upbringings/genetics rather than anything to do with BF/FF.
4. I spoke to various health care professionals who admitted that from what they have seen through their doors BF/FF didn't seem to have an impact at all, they had seen plenty of under ones who had colds, allergies etc who were both FF and BF. One of the biggest concerns was that mums were having to change their diet to BF due to infant allergies therefore more studies need to be conducted on this.
5. I realised that it was my body, I would still love my baby, I would still give them all they needed, I would still meet their needs, I would still bond with them etc.
6. I realised that all women have a choice. Some choose to BF some choose to FF and it's not my business what they do. I shouldn't shove my opinions down their throats instead I should support them all.

@SnuggyBuggy you get ready to feed milk. If baby wants a feed then and there - normally you can see the hunger cues. You simply open the carton and pour in the amount needed. It take no longer than taking a boob out

@Lostvoiced But I didn't say that I gave my children a better start than others. I said breast milk was a better start than formula. That's just a neutral fact, no judgement. I never even talked about how I've fed my own children.

@princesstwinkle your reasons for not trying to bf are very understandable and to me they (again) highlight some of the UK's public attitudes towards breastfeeding. You assumed that you might have problems with bf and you assumed that you wouldn't receive the right support. This is a real shame and I completely feel for you. No one should have to avoid bf because they're worried about lack of support. We also seem to assume that bf is automatically hard and difficult and yes it is for some but not for others.

With regards to being self conscious about the thought of bf in public, that's completely understandable. I was the same, purely because the UK public seem to have negative attitudes towards it (or actually mostly men), so I started by going to places I knew were baby friendly. The odd comments I've received have so far been only positive.

@SnuggyBuggy I don't see why pointing out the benefits of breastmilk in the context of a discussion like this should be called judgemental.

Would you consider it judgemental if I said 'oh you don't privately educate you children. You really aren't giving them the best start of their schooling life'
Or
'Oh you watch TV around your children so they can see it. You really aren't giving them the best start in life'
Or
'Oh you don't eat 100% organic, you really aren't giving your children the best in life'

Would that get your back up and feel like you were being judged? If someone said that over and over again would you get annoyed with it? Would you pull your DC out of school straight away to go to a private school because it's best for them?

What I always wonder in these types of discussions is why mothers are so often expected to sacrifice themselves mentally, physically and emotionally? I chose to have children because I wanted a family. I wanted to share my life with others, but that shouldn't mean I no longer matter and that I should make myself ill trying to do what's best, when it very much isn't best for me. Of course our children are top priority, but not at the detriment of the mother. Some people (judgey mummies) seem to think that unless you are sacrificing yourself completely, ignoring your mental and physical health, you don't love your child enough and aren't a good parent. It's a horrible and wrong assumption. Whether it's breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby-wearing etc, do what works for you.

@TeenyQueen NO

I didn't assume I wouldn't get support. My trust is very pro BF and has clubs every day of the week, 24/7 hotlines etc. I didn't do it because I didn't want to and worried about my MH. No amount of groups or support would've changed my MH?

As it turns out I've got more negotiate comments from FF in public than BF. Just like you, do you remember how it felt to have a comment passed this is exactly what you have done about this picture. The negative attitude that you have is exactly the same as what you experienced. There is no difference. Why is it ok for you to have a negative attitude towards this picture and the feeding method but not ok for someone to have a negative attitude towards your feeding choices?

@princesstwinkle formula manufacturers themselves say that breastfeeding gives babies the best start in life. The follow-on milk adds has a text running on the bottom of the screen saying breastfeeding is best.

@sqirrelfriends sibling studies are more accurate than global studies from decades ago in my mind, so I'll roll with that.

formula manufacturers themselves say that breastfeeding gives babies the best start in life. The follow-on milk adds has a text running on the bottom of the screen saying breastfeeding is best.

Because they have to by law. And you can get multivitamin drops you didn't need to get the liquid.

@TeenyQueen that isn't answering my question?

Why do you feel that you can be negative to FF mums and their choices but they can't be negative towards your choices?

It's got nothing to do with what it says at the bottom of an advert it's got to do with human decency?

Why do you feel that you can come online and slate another woman's feeding choice when she's not here to defend herself. And if she had come online and slated your feeding choices would you have been absolutely fine with it?

You don't have to shove your opinion down people's throats who haven't asked for it. If I saw you in the street feeding and went oh that's disgusting would you feel hurt and judged?

@Sandybval Bang on about the sibling studies. The benefits of breastfeeding are most notable at a population level, but individual children are very unlikely to have a better or worse start because of how they were fed.