At what age did you allow your dc's to help themselves to food eg biscuits, cheese, grapes?

[FLIER]

Just wondered, as I don't really allow my just turned 4 yo to help himself to anything, but his cousins help themselves to biscuits and all sorts.
All our cupboards still have locks on them, as he has a younger sibling now.

off

"Again I agree with reallytired, the children wont be able to eat whenever they feel like it once they start school. It isn't harming them to make them wait a while for their dinner. "

You can't eat when you feel like it at work either. A child needs to be guided to a pattern of 3 meals a day plus a few snacks.

As the food pyramid shows children need a range of food and not just fruit. There is no such thing as a bad food. It is just a matter of proportions of different types of food we need to be healthy. Too much fruit is as bad for you as too much of anything else.

Ofcourse young children know when they feel hungry. Making them wait 10 minutes for dinner is NOT going to kill them.

Sometimes children say they are hungry because they are bored. Rather like adults do. Sometimes a child demanding lots of snacks is actually a signal that they need attention. (Ie. reading a book to them, playing with them)

Maybe there is a case for a two year old grazing and having lots of snacks, but a five year old can and SHOULD have three main meals a day with the odd snack. The size of the stomach does not apply with a school child as much as a toddler.

Do you not think there is a lot of sense in guiding a school aged child towards an adult eating pattern? Before you ask, my son is about the right weight for his size and eats most foods.

At two years old, they will choose to eat food they enjoy, and letting them eat whenever they feel like it does not mean they are only eating when hungry.
I'd love to see a two or even six year old that would choose spinach when their body was craving iron rather than a chocolate cake.
Also I doubt many people allow tiny children to eat what they want, therefore how on earth can you be sure that the child would nourish themselves.
Lets see shall we? I'll leave my 2yo and 6yo to their own devices for a month, and allow them to eat exactly what they want and when they want and I shall measure their health before and after.I think the correct word for that would be neglect.
I really cannot stop LOLing at you, you're ridiculous.

Lorayn - F&Z's right re: the studies which have been done which have demonstrated that if you leave toddlers to eat what they want from a wide range of foods, over a period of time they will choose a balance of food and not just go for trash.

I think we have to trust our children more and their own instincts. I'm only just learning to trust when ds's (5 and 3) tell me they're full at dinner time for example - I don't make them eat any more than they want (I used to try to get ds1 to eat more because he's so skinny, but it doesn't make any difference except these days, meal times are much less stressful). They know when they're hungry, when they're full, when they're thirsty.

And our job as parents surely is to make our children self sufficient/independent?

I should try and find some research re: the food tests and toddlers - will have a go...

At two, they will choose the food that is AVAILABLE. If that's fruit, seeds.........no problem.

Children this young DO eat when hungry. They are far too busy with other things to eat for comfort, boredom, like adults do.

I don't recognise reality in this debate here. The reality is that even parents who want their children to be allowed to take some responsibility for their own eating, will make that child aware if dinner is coming along very soon. It's another way that the child can be helped to take responsibility for their own healthy eating; let them know dinner is coming along, help them to decide if a snack is a good idea, what snack would leave them room, etc.

Is ANYONE on here saying that they would watch their child get snacks while they actually dish up?

So how do you explain my nephew, who refused to eat anything 'good for him' and was allowed to eat what he wanted as his mum didn't want him to 'starve' being extremely ill, malnourished and having problems with his stools ?? (poo not seats!!)
Now at the age of seven he still refuses to eat good food, and lives off sausages and chips, believe me his mum has tried him on every food you can think of. If he was my son, yes, I would have given him a set meal, at every meal time, that was covering his needs and refused him anything else, as she tried to follow the whole 'eat when you're hungry and what you need' style her son became very ill.

well, that's because bad choices were made available to him.

Again, I think it's cross purposes here. People aren't saying that they let their kids snack on whatever, whenever.

Your nephew has been GIVEN the wrong stuff. Not the same at all as allowing the child to snack when they need to, on carefully chosen healthy food.

Dottydot, see if you can find some research, you've got me interested now
F and Z, do you have particular mealtimes as well? I'm a bit lost on the logistics.

It's in here:
www.health.vic.gov.au/nutrition/child_nutrition/toddler.htm#preferences

No, I wouldn't let my child eat a substantial snack after 4pm (possibly 4.30pm under duress!) because it's too near tea time, but I'll never not allow them to eat fruit because it's good for them, mainly water and it's a joy to see them eating it!

From what I understand it's extremely rare for a baby/toddler to starve themselves, so I don't know about your nephew - must have been very stressful for your sister. Children also need to try foods up to 15 times before they'll accept them - ds1 is now very taken with the idea that your tastebuds can change (as told to him by someone at his nursery - what a brilliant concept) and so will try different foods every now and then.

He was given exactly the same foods as I gave mine, and was eating fine until she allowed him to choose his meals/snacks, it was when she decided to put the choice in his own hands that he became ill.

We don't let our ds's choose their own meals - except for Wednesday, which is their nominated day of the week to choose their own tea time meal, and ever week it's fishfingers and chips Every week when we write the shopping list we do a meal planner and every week we ask them and every week it's the same reply. And they love it when it's a Wednesday...

But other than that they eat what we eat, and if they don't like it (risotto night is never popular with them) they either eat it and put up with it, or they don't eat it and risk being hungry. No fuss, no moaning - firm rules in our house about that!

But I see that as being different to snacks - particularly fruit, which they can have if they're in the mood to/feel hungry.

DD1 (4) has always stuck with prescribed meals however DD2 (2) is a different story. They don't help themselves to anything but DD2 won't eat any form of breakfast until 9.30-10.00am. Anything I give her beforehand goes to waste. If she isn't hungry when we have lunch she'll have it a little later but she is always sat down to the family meal at 5-5.30pm. If they want yoghurts or fruit they can have them whenever but nothing is in their reach because DD2 would obviously abuse it.

That's not what people are advocating though Lorayn. That's abnegating the parental responsibility; you just make sure the snacks are nutritious and healthy. They are 'choosing' but you choose the choice!

And dotty is right, no-one here is talking about letting them choose their meals.

By the way I agree about young children also needing to know they can't raid every drawer and cupboard in the house - we have a sweet tin which is easily in their reach and which they get something out of after tea if they've done well. They wouldn't dream of opening it at any other time because we just don't. Wouldn't call it stealing if they did though! But they'd know they'd be in trouble if they ever did because it's the after tea time treat tin.

The only other food that's very accessible to them is fruit so they're stuck with that really.

hmmm.

Mine are 11 and 8 and they don't help themselves to anything. They ask before they take anything to eat.

I've not made any conscious decision on this at all but that's just what happens.

ds1 ate less than 10 different foods for 5 years. He ate gluten free pizza, gluten free toast with jam on, buckwheat pancakes (with cheese hidden in it). And then crap. Cakes, ready salted crisps etc. I did feed him crap if he wouldn't eat because he would starve himself- to the point where he went into ketosis and spent 3 days throwing up. the fourth time it happened I decided eating something each day was more important than what it was.

He's severely autistic. His eating problems were eventually sorted over the course of a year by his very wonderful teacher (at special school), who spent every lunch time sat next to him - he moved from baked bean sauce on a quarter of crisp, to one baked bean between 2 crisp bits. He the expanded quite rapidly and now eats very healthily indeed (as he did before he regressed and became autistic). Had you told me 2 years ago he would be scoffing meat and stealing apples I wouldn't have believed you.

Eating problems can be for all sorts of reasons. Our biggest problem now is ds2 who grew up around a sibling with terrible eating habits- luckily it never affected ds3.

I never judge anyone for problems with their children eating. They can be very very difficult to get back on track. I will go to my grave grateful to ds1's teacher for the time he spent with ds1, and the work he did getting him to enjoy food and eating again. I could never have done what he did.

Mine have to ask. If it is approaching a mealtime I give them a drink (sometimes hunger & thirst get mixed up) or give them some of whatever I am preparing, a bit of carrot or cheese, for example. If it is not near a meal I send them to the fruit bowl. Biscuits are a rare treat because I am mean!

Lorayn, I think your posts are quite bad mannered. Do you normally tell people that you can't stop laughing at them, and that they are ridiculous, because they happen to disagree with you? And expect them to go on having a discussion with you afterwards?

There have been studies done showing that children can nourish themselves beautifully, if provided with a wide range of foods and left to their own devices (the research was done on NT children). I was basing my comments on those studies rather than anecdotes from my friends or family

ThursdayNext yes we do have mealtimes like anybody else. Food is about more than just subsistence, it's also a social event, etc etc. I think it's beneficial that people in a family sit down together each day and share food, whenever their situation allows this. What I don't agree with, is someone else deciding how much each person should eat at that meal, and disallowing them food at other times. I don't think you would find our household eating chaotic, or even notice that it was any different from yours. Ds sits down with us to eat at mealtimes and eats as much as he wants to (like I do). If he gets hungry in between meals he usually gets himself something to eat (like I do). I try to make sure that we've got a range of foods that we enjoy and that we can eat at any time without compromising our health. I can see some of you find this a really odd concept, but it honestly doesn't affect our daily life except to make it simpler and more pleasant.

"You can't eat when you feel like it at work either." Well, actually, I can, and so can my dp, so our jobs aren't all the same, I suppose. But the fact that some people can't, doesn't make it what's best for us, you know? I can't personally go for a walk across the park when I feel like it at work. It doesn't follow that not going for a walk across the park when I feel like it is healthier, or somehow more morally correct.

Gess how did ds's teacher have such success encouraging him with his eating?

He did it in tiny tiny steps franny- and daily. So he sat there with the tiniest crumb of crisp with a minute smidegen of baked bean sauce on it and got him to eat it (he also had quite a bit of authority over ds1 - perhaps partly because he was male- ds1 likes men).

I just couldn;t do that at home. 2 other children, ds1 refusing to sit with the rest of us etc etc.

It took him over a year to get from crisp to casserole (via mashed potato)- & I never had the ability to sustain that. I guess he believed he could get him eating (he requested we stopped packed lunch etc- it was totally driven by him- a wonderful man!)

Children do need to 'graze' as 3 meals a day are often not enough to keep their energy levels constant. I agree with giving them the choice, but of food that you have already chosen because of its nutritious benefits. A snack doesn't have to be junk food.

I don't think I could have had the patience and the confidence to see it was possible to move forward in tiny steps like that. Blimey.

We have a friend whose (NT) dd has such severe eating problems. It affects the whole family. Bloody awful for them.

to answer op, mine have always been allowed to help themselves. always.
i dont understand the concept of food being locked away. it is alien to my way of thinking and living.

I didn't really believe it either F&Z. I thought he'd never eat a piece of meat or a vegetable or a fruit ever again. He used to shudder violently if you put any non-accepted food item near him (and it happened so quickly- one minute he was eating and talking etc, the next he was mute and refusing food- it was too quick for me to spot it coming). I was only interested in getting him to eat something so he wouldn't go into ketosis and start chucking up everywhere.

His teacher sent me daily written reports of food successes. He now eats things like salmon with potato and veg. Staggering..... We spent quite a bit of time saying 'he ate what???" Now jut need to get him back to the family dinner table....