what can you say to a new age man who loses his temper, marches upstairs and slaps his 7 year old

[nonymous]

hard enough that i could hear it downstairs. he is a loving father and is non-violent. neither of us object to smacking but it is a very rare thing.

what bothers me is that this was after the argument. ds was in the wrong. but dp suddenly flipped and stormed upstairs shouted at him and punctuatied it with 3 slaps.

i spoke to them both. dp still raving
got them both to say sorry
but need to make dp understand that we all lose our tempers but he wa sin the wrong to lose it to that extent because it was after the argument so ds wouldn't have understood why he suddenlty got so cross.

and before the anti-smacking comes on and starts going ott, please think before you type, i am looking for advice of the kind of points i can make not your contempt

I think nony has had some pretty constructive advice here.
My dh is pretty "new age". I would be completely completely taken aback if he did something like this to our children.
While I'm not suggesting leaving him, I really do think this has to be taken seriously and to echo what others have said, that the needs and feelings of your son (since he was the one that was slapped ) take precedence over not wanting to pull your dh up too hard on it.
Think the analogy about how you would feel if a stranger did this to your child is pretty apt really. Even if your ds had been behaving the way he did to your dh to a stranger, you would be incensed and incredibly protective if the stranger subsequently smacked your ds, wouldn't you?

Nonymous - my feeling is that a mutual apology doesn't quite do it, because a 7 year-old is entitled to be impossible, a bit, occasionally, and a parent is supposed to be responsible...so although your ds may well have been out of order, no amount of 'out of order' merits the treatment he got. So, imo, your dh's apology needed to acknowledge that fact. Otherwise, your DH is being a v bad example to your DS, and 'sorry i hit you but you wound me up' is very bad training for the future (how many men who hit thier wives say this??)...and a very effective way to make a child feel they deserved unnacceptable treatment.

Maybe it wasn't like this, but that's the way it sounds from your posts. If it was like this, it might be a starting ppoint ofr discussion with your dh.

Whatever the greater ifs and buts about smacking, it should be a no-no for your dh since he can't control his temer, shouldn't it?

Hope you can sort it with him.

Hey, just an idea, let DP read all of these posts.....including yours

I would have his bags packed very quickly. InfactI wouldn't even pay him the courtesy of packing his bag.

I would never ever allow a man to hit my child.

But I am posting from the perspective of being an abused child who was hit by a man. I think it is also relvant that dp is not dd father. TBH even if he was dd father I know he would never hit dd as she can be hard work and has pushed us both to our limits and he has never smacked.

I am not however posting from a completely blinkered anti smacking view point as I ahve admitted to smacking dd on here.

Ok, I know that your not interested in what I have to say but ive thought about this most of night and cant get it off my mind... I know its hard to tell my tone from text but Im really, really not trying to be horrible so im sorry if it comes across that way.

Ive pondered over this for a while.. im really, genuinely trying my best to understand many on this thread point of view that this is fine, just a mistake, slap on the wrist for dh etc.. Ive tried to put it into different perspectives - but nope, I just cannot get my head around, no matter how I try, how anyone can think this incident was romotely acceptable! - ok, it was maybe wrong of me to simply say "leave him" - I know that I personally can say without a doubt that I would, but I may be biased for personal reasons or experiences so I apologise for that but I mean, I adore my dp,cant imagine life without him - madly in love (far from perfect btw, obviously have our ups and downs like everyone) but as much as I love him - dd comes first..completely! her feelings, welfare security, everything... completely are before dps! - its our job as parents to protect our little ones. I dont know if I could be accountable for my actions (not violence btw - solves nothing) if anyone, ever touched my dd in anger! - I cant understand how any mother can, carry their child for 9 months, give birth (same for adoptions too), and make a little person an extention of them to allow someone to hit them!

Im really feeling upset for your little boy. You appear to think its all fine now and your dh is the priority - to make sure you dont upset him when speaking to him about this - who cares if you upset him? he deserves to be upset!!

I really am sorry for going on but felt I had to post. I know you dont want to listen.

As some have said, the fact that this is completely out of character makes the whole thing even more worrying. the unpredictability. He may be stressed. We all get stressed. Part of life - houses, money, work, children, relationships... because something stresses you out does not mean you have any right to take it out on hit your children.

You will probably think Im being completely ott but I would suggest counselling (your dh). Just to ensure there is not an underlying issue there and to ensure that nothing horrible happens to your little family.

please dont take this whole thing lightly.

this was NOT a smack

I think most people understand thst people lose it and smack. I wouldn't be reacting like this to a smack-see my first posts.

this child was hit hard enough to be heard on another floor of the house. And, essentially, in cold blood-the argument was over.

there also seems to be some attempt to justify it in terms of the child's behaviour. well no. adults need to take adult responsibility and if they can't, the onus is on them to seek help.

I am not saying you should leave. But you need to treat this as serious

.nti smacking but

Personally, I find it quite sad that some people just accept that smacking and hitting is a normal part of growing up.

I really don't believe these people who spout platitudes such as "I was smacked and it never did me any harm". Maybe if it was such of a non-deal, you wouldn't remember it.

Nonymous, I was smacked as a child and I remember being hit with force as you describe and I still remember it now.

Not sure how you can forgive so easily. But that is you and this is me.

Some people seem to act in an almost proud way that they are not ashamed to hit their children, or that they were hit when they were small. What is wrong with striving NOT to hit your children. Why do you get mocked for being precious when you say this? People say "Well, we can't all be perfect"....*sigh...seriously?

Agree with Filly

What you say is the police are on the way and I'll pack your things and send them round to your mother's.

If a mark was left it's a criminal offence. So let's not say sitting children is fine. Many chidlren that age have the number of childline etched into their brains too. All smackers have been warned. We will root you out and see you off.

Honestly this is absolutely unacceptable. The situation had ended. He reopened the argument by going to your DS and then hit him not once but three times?

I'd be:

a) arranging for him to go away for some time on his own
b) making an appt for him with a counsellor
c) making it damn clear that this behaviour will lead to him not having a relationship with wife or kids if it happens again

And then I'd be focusing on your son and how he's dealing with his father taking his temper out on him.

(but like others am v anti-smacking etc as I remember my mum's smacks turning into kicks and punches and marked or not it affects you for life)

"im sorry but really, a 7 year old should not be "arguing" with his parent, that is probably what made him so cross in the first place. Again, ideal world, its good that 7 year old confident enough to argue his case but also has to learn that in life one sometimes, not always, has to give in."

That struck me quite forcibly. What I'm taking from that, is that children learn that they can wind a parent up so successfully that a parent can hurt them, so they need to learn to back down. Because if they don't back down, they might be on the receiving end of violence from someone bigger and stronger than them.

On the one hand, I can see the common sense of this. Someone who doesn't know when to back down when they're out in the big wide world, is a danger to themselves. On the other hand, I think this is a lesson children should learn in the playground with their peers, not in what should be the safety of their family. Basically it's a message of fear - if you don't back down, you may be hurt. This is something we all know deep down when we're out and about and we come across violent yobbos in pubs, on the road, etc., but really I'm not sure we should be accepting that it's a good message to push in our homes.

You haven't mentioned what your DH has specifically said he will do to ensure that this type of incident never happens again nony. You haven't mentioned if he has taken responsibility for it. I agree with everyone who says that it is a big fat problem, because OK no harm done this time, but actually, what if he had done harm? What if he had made your DS bleed, or bruised him? What if he had knocked him out? would you still be feeling that it is just a one off? Because sometimes, the amount of force you use on a child is not necessarily the deciding factor in whether that child gets injured or not, it can be the unfortunate angle, or a child being knocked unintentionally against something else which does them more harm than the hitter intended. Not everyone who harms a child is a terrible monster - some of them are otherwise loving parents who make a terrible mistake.

I think you should treat this as a wake up call. I'm not sure where I stand on the smacking debate, I wouldn't condemn all parents who use it, but I think what your DH has shown, is that he shouldn't use it. He needs to find another method to make his point.

Sorry, didn't mean to write an essay!

Smackers are usually of low intelligence and bad at dealing with children. Thankfully most smacking is now a criminal offence. They are the sort of people who deal with being cross with neighbours and their spouse by hitting them too. They usually have a limited vocabulary and can't deal with issues by words and perhaps low emotional intelligence too.

No contempt, just an exhortation to obey the law and more importantly to try to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'm not sure you're going to get very though with trying to get most men to "admit they are wrong". It's more important you explain the law and also the psychological issues arising from hitting children or indeed hitting spouses which is all too common too or indeed hitting the dog.

Firstly I want to make it clear that I am anti-smacking and so is my dh, secondly that we have both been tempted to do it and just managed to stop ourselves.

There are obviously some people on here who have experience very very sad and traumatic experiences of thier parents hitting them. It is understandable that they feel very strongly about the situation the OP finds herself in, but...

Ask yourselves this, is it better for the child involved that his parents spilt up, that a couple who are happy and in love separate and he finds himself in the middle of the trauma of a divorce? I am sorry, but there is no way on this earth that on this occasion it is warrented. Yes, if it happened continuously or even on a second occasion, but as I said in my brief post earlier - OP's dh who has always been a good loving anti smacking father will be punishing himself very hard on this.

There is a greater chance that the dh will never do this again, he has no history of violence, a happy marriage etc. If there is any chance that I am correct in this should he be thrown out? I am not being naive here, I totally agree that if this turns out to be the first of many times then yes, he should go.

My parents divorced, if my Mum told me now that it was because he hit me once without being given a chance I'd be livid and I think most people would be.

your ds is not going to get any less annoying in the next few years, he is going to get puberty. Your dp needs to have a set of strategies for dealing with undesireable behaviour which do not involve violence. He has proved that he cannot smack in a controlled and disciplined way so he should commit to not smacking again. You need a list of agreed sanctions and an escalation procedure and your dp needs to control his anger.

I have smacked in anger, I don't think it is a good tool to change behaviour. Any situation in which you have to explain to a young child that adults make mistakes is one to be avoided. A seven year old has the right to expect his father to try to be perfect. What strikes me from this situation is that your ds behaved badly, his father behaved worse, and then you all went out for a nice outing and a treat. This does not seem consistent to me.

Scanner, I agree. It's certainly not worth divorcing over this. Children, mothers and fathers all behave badly at times. That doesn't mean you walk out. And non. did say it had all calmed down again.

I still don't think smacking is ever an answer to anything. perhaps let the child slap the father as hard as he can three times until the father cries. Let him use an implement so that the force and pain is as hard as the child felt...or better equip the children with mobiles with camera abilities so they can record these incidents, post them on utube and shame parents.

Nonymous, I really feel for you. You said it was a one off incident and totally out of character, I understand that. Asking him to leave would be such a bad step to take - he's been a loving, caring, doting father for 7 years. How many of us can honestly say we've never made a mistake in such a time however serious.

How to approach dp - can you turn the conversation around to you rather than him? "I find it so difficult when ds does x, it makes me so angry. I usually have to (send him to his room / leave the room myself / whatever you can think of that calms down the situation instantly)". Perhaps if you approach it from how you deal with it and admitting how dificult you can find ds, you turn it around from 'you're in the wrong' to 'we've got a problem we have to work together on'.

Whatever happens if you can both be consistent in your approach to ds, then both of you will find it easier to deal with him and support each other.

This one incidence will leave much less of an emotional scar than a divorce. Nonymous has to have the talk with her dp to ensure it never happens again but anyone who suggests the relationship should be over after what is we all hope a one off mistake cannot know the pain a seperation of parents can bring.

If it happened more than once then perhaps different.

For those of you who are actually interested in our situation,rather than interested in listenidng to yourselves pontificate

we have talked and agreed that smacking is not acceptable and that it doesn't help the situation at all so will all try to use different - I would like to thank those of you who bothered to give the actual advice that helped form the basis of this adult conversation, you cannot know how much your help is appreciatead

ds and I have talked and he understands and is fine, and i do know him and know when he's upset or hidigng something

ds and dp have tlaked at bedtime and hugged and kissed and agreed today won't happen again ever

ds now has a listening and reacting chart that we all agreed together

we have friends over for lunch so dp is busy tidying up at least he was until our youngest child pulled down and broken the curtain rail in living room

oh well

Well done nony, it was a horrible and upsetting situation and it sounds like you've all talked it through and redrawn the lines of what's acceptable and what isn't.

New day. Enjoy your lunch!

Oh, well done nonymous, it all sounds really positive. The chart is a great idea. I hope you all have a much better day today