what can you say to a new age man who loses his temper, marches upstairs and slaps his 7 year old

[nonymous]

hard enough that i could hear it downstairs. he is a loving father and is non-violent. neither of us object to smacking but it is a very rare thing.

what bothers me is that this was after the argument. ds was in the wrong. but dp suddenly flipped and stormed upstairs shouted at him and punctuatied it with 3 slaps.

i spoke to them both. dp still raving
got them both to say sorry
but need to make dp understand that we all lose our tempers but he wa sin the wrong to lose it to that extent because it was after the argument so ds wouldn't have understood why he suddenlty got so cross.

and before the anti-smacking comes on and starts going ott, please think before you type, i am looking for advice of the kind of points i can make not your contempt

Frannyandzooey (sorry about mistype) - dp is a quiet man and he just retreats into nods and shakes of head. almost turns into an adolescent waiting for the end of the telling-off which is why we ned to discuss agian tonight when kids asleep and we are alone

I think a calm, supportive chat over a bottle of wine/pot of tea/whatever, where you approach the discussion in a non-judgemental and constructive way might help, maybe starting by saying "this isn't about blame or recriminations for what happened yesterday, it's just about moving forward and making sure things don't get out of hand again".

It's difficult not knowing you personally to know what would help. But I know if dh and I disagree on something to do with the children, or if I feel he has cocked something up and need to talk about it, we have to get through a whole wall of solid defensiveness and paranoia before we can talk like sensible adults.

Fine- I will leave you to it!

"we have to get through a whole wall of solid defensiveness and paranoia before we can talk like sensible adults. "

sounds familiar

Yes nony that's a good plan. I expect he's feeling awful too, so take an even approach to discuss WHAT'S TO BE DONE NEXT TIME without the shouting at each other. Is important you discuss it again though I think.

Greeny - oh I would. If I had a problem I'd want to tell someone it. I wouldn't really be that pleased if that person burst into tears and started wringing their hands and carrying-on and making it their problem. Would be useless. My MIL does this, most annoying.
No Franny, not that hard.

I get very prickly when my parenting is criticized too, and I get even arsier when I KNOW I have done something I shouldn't have done and have got to admit it to dh and talk about what to do instead next time. As you know, I think this incident is quite extreme, and I think your dp needs to know that, but the principle is the same. If you trust him in general and usually work together well, you've somehow got to get past the prickly defences to the point where you can support him and come up with alternatives together. I suppose if you can show him that you aren't going to slate him, he might be more open to meeting you half way and having a proper conversation about it?

Greeny's advice about not 'slating him' is really good nony. Hopefully will see off the initial defensiveness. In fact tonight you may need to model 'calm and reasonable' behaviour to him in the face of extreme opposition. But please persist through that first wall Greeny described, this is a terribly important conversation for him to have.

I do feel for you, nonymous. I think it's hard because if my partner wasn't absolutely gutted at his behaviour in this situation I would be disgusted and sickened by him. I'm not clear if your partner thinks he's done something seriously wrong or not? My partner once lost it and smacked one of our sons (then about 3) on the leg. Immediately afterwards he was utterly contrite and filled with remorse and guilt. So we were all able to move on in the context that he had done something we all agreed was shitty without walking on eggshells of adult male anger before we could even address the problem. Is your partner really sorry do you think? If so he could begin by apologising to yoiur son, maybe?

I've got to go nony, but please have the conversation, I hope it goes well. Will you let us know tomorrow how you got on?

I think greeny has some excellent advice that I can't really add to. I just wanted to say that for your DS this was a HUGE betrayal of trust. Specially as your dp is usually a 'new man' type dad. I think ask an 'open' style question of your dp; what sort of things does he think he can do to build your ds' trust again?

At his age, your ds will no doubt remember this incident. I think it's really important that this memory is within the context of extra time, attention etc from dad. He will learn from that that, yes, dad is still loving and kind.

DP was regularly battered as a kid and he has never hit our kids and indeed showers them with love.

But, we both know that underneath everything the memory of being hit lurks and underneath extreme stress might rear its ugly head.

When things go pear shaped in our parenting, whether it is shouting or extreme misbehaviour from our kids we have always found the best thing is to re-connect with our kids or deal with any stresses that we might have in our relationship or in jobs etc..

Your husband is not a habitually violent man so maybe you need to think about what triggered the reaction.

Is he stressed for some reason?
Have him and your DS drifted apart?

if battering your son is not the norm for him - what casued him to explode? Is he under stress that he's not talking about etc etc?

Maybe a night out, just the 2 of you, might help him open up.

Is your DS OK? Have you talked through things with him? How does he feel about his dad now? Is he scared of him?

Message deleted

i would see if there is something else bothering your dp (other than the argument with your son) if this is out of character for your dp. Then and only then discuss the issue of him slapping your son, try to be unemotional about it. You need to find out if something is underlying this and tackle that. If there is nothing underlying this then you need to sit down and talk about your parenting methods agree on a system of discipline and express your views with regard to physical punishment. Suggest that if dp feels close to loseing it with ds he goes for a walk or tries to calm down in other ways.

What do you think would help him to find other ways to deal with anger and conflict nony? Is he going to be open to thinking of other ways instead of hitting?

Would some outside help be useful? There are courses and training both for parents dealing with difficult behaviour and for adults dealing with anger management. Would he consider something like this?

i have told you what it is like to be hit unpredictably, in cold blood, by someone who is meant to protect you.

If you are not interested then fine. If you feel the need to dismiss what I have said as "baggage", because it makes you feel better, then you go girl.

But remember that your job is to protect your son. You are his mother.

And sometimes that means making tough decisions and having difficult conversations. Because you are the adults and he is the child.

I wish you luck, I know its hard but if you think this is not serious, if you think your son will go off to bed and forget about it, believe me you are wrong.

3 slaps loud enough to hear downstairs is serious. And to do it in cold blood is really serious.

extremely well said fillyjonk - my sentiments exactly.

If as you say your dp is a non-violent loving father he will be punishing himself more than you ever can.

When I read this op I decided not to get into this one but having read the replies I am going to
I have to second some things said by Filly and soapbox.
Even after the talk, apologies and a lovely day out your ds has not gone to bed and never given this a second thought honetly. He may not think about it much, it may not even appear on the surface to bother him and his relationship with his father may seem to be back to normal but wait for the next time your dp loses his temper and shouts watch for that flinch and glipse of fear because they will be there. This was not a smacked bum (which i still think is wrong) this was repeated slaps hard enough to be heard on another floor of your house. Your ds will remember this and it will take a long time for that fear not to be there when your dp shouts at him for something.
Soapbox also said that the apparent needs of your child seem conspicuous in it's absence. I have to agree this post seems to be you defending your dp's actions and brushing it under the carpet but what your dp did was serious even if out of character and your son needs a lot of love and support he has for all intents and purposes been asualted and had this happened outside the home by a strnger your reaction would be that of loving support for your son.
It does make we wonder what the issue is with skirting around it with your dp why is it so hard to broach the subject with him???

I can remember a couple of occasions when my mother smacked me, and my dh has told me several times about the time that his dad smacked one of his sisters. It was considered more acceptable a generation ago, I guess, but both my mum and my FIL were otherwise loving and affectionate parents, that felt pushed too far and snapped (and I think we should remember that anger doesn't stop the moment the shouting does, although I would certainly be asking what it was that acted as the final straw for your dh) and the reason why the occasions were remembered is because they were unusual and out of character. It does happen. It may never happen again. Now it could be a warning sign that all is not well, and it should be handled as a serious thing, the reasons explored and solutions identified, but I do think that it is a bit overboard to suggest on the basis of one incident that the dad is abusive per say and the child scared for life. My most vivid memory of my mother losing it was when she hit me with the hairbrush once and it broke (I can't remember it hurting, so I'm not quite sure how it happened TBH). I have to admit as a parent with a daughter who can be a complete pain about having her hair brushed (and I can remember running away from my mother quite a bit at hair brushing times!) I now feel bad that I was such a pain! I'm not in any way downplaying the experiences of those who have suffered abuse, and I do think your family need to resolve this so it doesn't happen again, but I also think that it is perfectly possible to work it out.

OK my advice is to have a talk with father when he is calm and say that you were concerned at how he hit in anger. As a result you feel you and you both should embark in a rule of NO SMACKING in ANY circumstance. Explain that you think smacking is a legitimate approach normally but given that he has demonstrated that he cannot stay within acceptable parameters you think it best not adopt this approach.
Why not try the no smacking route and see what happens.

Jesus, all this talk about 'battering kids' and 'leaving him'. The guy made a mistake, he lost his temper and smacked his son, it happens. It's obviously not an every day occurrence as the poster wouldn't have posted as she did. As long as his son knows his dad made a mistake and they have apologised then I think they should move on. We're all human, I've smacked my DD's on rare occasions and felt awful afterwards and vowed to try harder to deal with their 'challenging' behaviour subsequently.

I'm sure if this dad left the family home then the son would be far more upset and traumatised than by a slap during an argument.

Sandyballs, of course we all make mistakes - we're all human but I dont see how hitting your child is merely a "mistake" - its extremely serious.

oh another MN mafia thread getting to love these
It amazes me how so many MOTHERS can be so high and mighty and secure in their own lives families parenting relationships - to be so single minded and judgemental regarding any number of issues