RISK you take with your children

[mylittleimps]

Xenia said: "Anything can be discussed. Start a risk thread. Namby pamby look after children all the time parents who don't let them go out alone, run in forests, ride horses and risk death damage their children hugely. ", she also said that the case of Madeleine McCann would not change her in as much she would still leave a similar age child alone and go out to dinner in similar circumstances. Xenia also said it was just the same as putting them to bed and going down stairs to have dinner.

i let my young children ride horses, play outside witha river at the bottom of the garden or at their grandparents with a lake. they have lived in a "construction site" since birth, i let them sleep on their fronts BUT i would never ever leave them alone and go out to dinnerb or even leave my rpoperty boundary. and it is not the same putting them to bed and going down stairs.

i believe now the McCanns have pubilically stated that the quilt will never leave them and the poor child is still missing this is a debate that should be had now as if some people can still say it's acceptable is worrying (to me) and I believe children are still at risk if this message is left unchecked

so where fdo you draw the line at risks wrt your children (we all know that as parents we have to take them)

agree with mumemma hope something positive happens out of this heartache - know slightly off topic and not making any judgements but want to add we don't go on holiday with our dc's but go for days out because we don't feel these family orientated holidays are sufficently family orientated for the reasons mumemma stated.

when we go for days out we eat out together in restaurants that have a "normal" menu but do smaller portions so we can all eat together say at 6, they behave well and as they don't get typical kids menu food at home are quite capable with the"normal" menu, we just plan ahead and organise where we will take them ahead of the trip.

and that suits us for the time being, obviously things will change as the ds's te older

Well I guess that I'm one of those laidback parents then.

With any risk factor you've got to consider the probability of the event occuring and the likely impact as well as whether there are any ways in which you can reduce the risk. Take the forecourt example:- if you look at risk factors, there is the risk of fire (remote possibility, high impact, but as you're sitting on top of flammable material makes little difference to outcome whether parent is in car or not), risk of carjacking (v low possibility, high impact, but can be mitigated by locking car and taking keys), risk of children wandering (possibility depends on childrens age/personality etc, impact depends on other factors eg traffic, risk can be mitigated by locking car and taking keys), risk of collision by other car(probability much higher than any other scenario, impact reduced if children are in car seats in car, but much more serious if outside of car).

Looking at the overall statistics of where accidents happen (once we remove the home!) then carparks and petrol forecourts score amongst the highest for accidents. A child is more likely to be injured seriously by walking across a forecourt than by sitting in a locked car. Yet there are still parents who feel that the safest option is to have their child with them. Because instinctively we feel that as parents we have the power to protect our children when they are within our grasp. But accident statistics don't always back up our instincts.

In terms of leaving sleeping children in a hotel room, yes we have done this and would probably do it again. But we have always mitigated the risks that we perceive - usually by using a roomlistening service (happily used the Mark Warner 5 minutes checking service) and we always take our own smokealarm to overseas hotels (I have never yet experienced a fire drill whilst staying in a European hotel/resort). We looked at this particular resort in Portugal, and decided that it didn't suit us because we didn't like the lack of a roomlistening service. We've also avoided certain countries at present due to the terrorist risk but we know other people who are happy to visit the same countries. And if we say had family in those locations it wouldn't stop us from visting (dh is from Belfast!), but given total freedom in respect of locations we just choose to avoid them.

Generally we all have flawed perceptions of risk because we either don't view all the risks, nor do we estimate the probability of the event occuring or the likely impact accurately. Most people are hoping that they are reducing the risk by staying with their children, but it all depends on which risks you think that you face. And whether I wanted to or not I'm still not sure that I would have enough information to "judge" the McCann decision. I have no idea as to whether the parents would have been able to stop this had they say been asleep in the room next door.

Of course it is easy to judge someone else's decision if they don't co-incide with your own. I'm happy to leave sleeping children, but someone else is happy to holiday in Turkey or Egypt. If we all came to the same conclusions then actually there wouldn't be anywhere left to holiday.

Sorry -far too long. But to add to the penultimate line - I'm happy to leave my sleeping children. I wouldn't say leave my nephew as I have no idea as to whether he would sleep solidly of be up to mischief as soon as he didn't hear me.

My SIL always said, "children have a right to risk"
She took it to extremes, letting her 6 year old run around with a glass of water in his hands "because if he falls and cuts himself, then he will know better the next time"
I still don't know if she is just lazy and can't be bothered arguing with her kids.

Yes, risk is a difficult concept for us parents because we all have different ideas of what an acceptable risk is. I would not leave my DCs sleeping in a hotel without a babyphone or listening service and never left DS sleeping when I went to pick up DD from Kindergarten.

But, when we go to a playarea, my kids are often the only ones running around without their parents running after them shouting, "Be careful, don't do that.." I have sometimes seen other parents "helping" my children climb up or down a climbing frame that they can manage on their own. I take my DD (5) to an indoor climbing wall where she climbs to a height of about 6m.
I leave them in the car when I pay for petrol, cause it is too much hassle and too dangerous otherwise.

But these are all my opinions, and every parent has their own ideas. At the end of the day, you take the risks and hope that everything goes well. There are so many things that you can protect your DC from, the only thing you cannot protect them from is the unexpected.

Mog: I wasn't entirely happy leaving my kids while running, but couldn't find any other way to do any running, and really needed to run (stressful holiday). DH wasn't with us, obviously.

I ran after they were asleep. I ran laps that meant I was passing by the cabin (locked. No kitchen) every song or so on my ipod. I would take my earphones out and listen, hear the noise machine, which my kids can shout over, and carry on running.

It was stressful, though, largely because it was illegal.

Oh, and it was a resort type place, very very few cars, risk of an accident minimal.

I have discussed this with DH, though, and agreed that any time I'm leaving any kid alone in future, I will call or SMS him before and after, so he can alert appropriate people if I disappear, for any reason.

This is a genuine question for those people who don't leave their children in the car when they pay for petrol - why do you feel you need to take them with you to pay? What do you think will happen to them in a locked car that you can see from the window?

I understand if your child will be emotionally upset being left on it's own but otherwise why would you feel you had to go to all the hassle of getting them out just for a 5min (if that!) errand?

Not being argumentative, just genuinely puzzled.

Excellent post LM. I too wouldn't holiday in Egypt but wouldn't dream of saying that a family who went there was irresponsible if they got blown up by terrorists and I know it is a tiny tiny risk.

I think there is a very strong gut instinct to keep our children with us, even where that is not the safest thing to do, as in your petrol forecourt example, or when it may not be in your children's interests, such as the example of them needing sleep on holiday, but you being too anxious to leave them so you take them to the restaurant with you and they are sleep-deprived. (I would be in the latter camp, btw, though I know it's irrational. I wouldn't condemn anyone else for being able to cope with separation anxiety though!)

There are millions of risks in daily life and we all assess them differently and act according to our own perception of how great the risk is and how capable our child is. So I think it is extremely difficult to discuss details on a thread like this.

I think it is, unfortunately, probably quite easy to gain a false sense of security on holiday in an environment designed to remove the stresses of daily life and about which one knows very little.

Risk assesment is a funny thing! When i was on holiday i was MORE aware of potential risks than i would be at home. Children in unfamiliar surroundings, not speaking the laungage etc, they were so exicited any common sense they might have was left on the plane! The trick was to try not to let them feel too restricted, I know easier said than done!

Wondering for the people who do take kids to pay for petrol, is this only if you have 1? I mean, I have 3, and the drama of getting all 3 out, gathered together, holding hands, dodging the cars, into the garage, saying 'no' to requests for sweets, back across the forcourt and into the car, and youngest ds who insists on climbing into seat on his own (5 mins?) or just sticking him in and cue 5 minute tantrum. Phew. what a fanny on. No way. Is it just parents with 1 who do it? I think you get a lot less fussy when you have a few kids.

I think I'm a lot more relaxed than many parents, have done exactly what the McCanns did, just the week before, but I think I would now reconsider on that front.

But I don't blame them at all for doing what they did. I did exactly the same and have done many times. One doesn't consider kidnapping as being a realistic risk

Dh was saying yesterday (we wnet to the zoo) that the poice studied the cctv cameras from London zoo on a typical summers day last year and spotted 16 known paedophiles .

I'd never really considered this to be a huge risk but now do feel more aware/less naive.

But saying that, my kids are still allowed out to play, still walk to school on their own and enjoy a lot more freedom than many kids their age I think. I feel sad that many kids are effectively in gilded cages these days.

To answer the question about petrol pumps. My dd age 3 hates being left in the car by herself. So if she is with me and i cannot use a Pay at Pump service i will take her in with me - Because she knows her doors don't open anytime (child locks) but if she climbs out of her seat and jumps on to mums chair My door opens. Granted when locked this triggers the car alarm but thats just an extra bonus!! So rather than run the risk of her jumping out and under a car its easier to take her with me.

Ernest, your right! When i have both my girls in the car they will both sit tight. So i can't remember taking both in. Most of the time though i wait and fill up when alone! SAves all the hassle.

when we were kids my dad and step mum thought nothing of leaving us in a car for 2 hours while they went for a beer - they'd come out with a bottle of coke and crisps and we had the radio on, think i was about 11 and ss was 8, from 13 we were left on our own in the house for a few hours at a time. i certainly dont think we were neglected or they were bad parents but 20 years ago we lived in a different society.

i think there is so much arguement over what is safe and what is not is because so much has changed over the years. as mothers we assess risk every minute of the day and we should trust our judgement - yes what has happened to the mcganns is extremely rare but still wouldnt we all rather it never happened??

i dont believe in wrapping my children in cotton wool until they're 18 - i allow them an amount of freedom and responsiblility that they can manage - my ds (8) is allowed to cross the road and play on the enclosed park opposite my house - i cant see him but i can see the entrance, know there are people around, know he is aware of stranger danger and have assessed the risk - since allowing him over there he has become more confident and has made friends with local kids and so is not in his bedroom on x box day in day out.

i have gone next door for a chat and glass of wine while kids (ds & dd 16mths) in bed and with the monitor on and doors locked. having assesed the risk of fire, them waking up or them being ill.

no body is wrong or right, good or bad parent we look after our children to the best of our capabilities and hope that some evil bastard doesnt come and take away our most precious children.

'This is a genuine question for those people who don't leave their children in the car when they pay for petrol - why do you feel you need to take them with you to pay? What do you think will happen to them in a locked car that you can see from the window? '

A five-year-old boy in the US died last week when he got the car in gear by accident and it started to roll. He then opened the door - yes, kids that age can suss out how to open locked doors! - and tried to put his foot out to stop the car.

He was pulled under the wheels and crushed to death.

I got to pay at the pump or fuel up when my husband's around to watch the kids at home - or he goes out when I'm at home.

It's easily enough worked around if you're organised.

There's risk and then there's courting disaster.

My mum and dad used to have dancing lessons. They took us with them and left us asleep in the back of their van (Escort sized with no side windows) outside the venue. I remember waking up and looking through the window- for years I thought they were at a party. I don't know how old we were- I would have been between 4 and 8 and my brother was 2 years younger.

Yet my mum wouldn't let us go to the Tutankhamun exhibition in London in 1974(?) when I was 11 because of fear of the IRA.

My 10yo DD collapsed in the kitchen the other day. I was there and caught her, DH called an ambulance and they arrived just a few minutes later.

OMG - what if I had let her be in a room in our house on her own? She could have been killed if she'd knocked her head on the edge of the table or fallen against the cupboard and broken her neck. She has no medical condition which means she shouldn't be left alone in a room.

That's a bit tongue-in-cheek tbh, of course she goes into rooms on her own but just because I experienced the above doesn't mean I won't allow her to have some freedom or will wrap her in cotton wool any more than I usually do.

What risks do I take with my children? I leave the house with them, I put them in a car and drve the street.

I leave them at school, playgroup, childminders, in the care of grandparents or friends while I go out.

My DD got out of the front door once, I'd acidently left it on the latch, and she was found my a pizza delivery boy sitting in the middle of the road.

She did the same at my MIL's when she was looking after her. She got out of the back patio doors, got across the garden and down a drive and ws again found sitting in the middle of the road.

Oh and she also escaped out of the library just recently. She walked behind me while I was enquiring about a book, I'd left her reading, and she walked out of the doors, down the steps and ws found walking along the main road.

I've also left her in a hotel room while I went downstairs tot he hotel restaurant and had dinner. I had the listening service on and checked on her as often as was possible throughout the course of the mel. I don't feel a bad parent for having done so.

So I take a risk everytime she's out of my sight, but i still let her out of my sight, it's called living.

WIth regard to people who think the world is more dangerous than it was 20 years ago, no it isn't. It's just that we've had years of an infantilising, authoritarian government, and scaremongering newspapers all trying to make everyone frightened, guilty, passive and obedient.
All life is a risk and most risks we take, we get away with.

I agree to a certain extent Madamaz. Although I do think, I may be wrong, that the people who were flashers and molesters in our day and now rapists and abducters. I think the internet has a hand in this in term of child pornography now being so accesible.

If I have to fill up then I go where I can pay at the pump as I'm not going to get 3 kids out and drag them in for 30 seconds while I pay.

Otherwise, I fill up when they aren't with me or, if desperate, send dh to do it on an evening.

I agree with Madamez about this. Life for our children today is much safer than it was for us, and life for us was much safer than it was for our parents.

I dread to think how safe my grandchildren will be, I assume they won't be allowed to put their own clothes on in case of the tiny chance they'll asphixiate themselves in the vest or something. DD will be coming on here complaining that her mother is lax when babysitting and allows them to drink out of a cup without inserting the anti-choking device first, should she stop me babysitting?

MadameZ.

I agree with every word you wrote.

I remeber going out in the summer holidays in the morning with my friend and not coming back until the street lights came on. My Mum had no idea where I was and I returned home safely every day.

I would never let my DD do that. Does that make my Mother a bad Mother or a risk taker. In hindsight anything could hvae happened to me and she wouldn't have known. She looks at me with my DD (4) and cn't believe I won't let her go the park just accross the road (you can see it from my house) by herself. I do not take risks with my children, I couldn't live with myself if something happened due to my 'risk-taking'. They both come with me NO MATTER WHAT!

Namby pamby mother I may be!!!!!!!!

I'm in agreement with Ladymuck, well said.

There has been so many judgemental comments flying around on all these threads that I am starting to doubt my own parental abilities because I don't think its wrong to use a baby listening service in a family friendly hotel and on occasion my neighbour has babysat from their house which is in baby monitor range as I have done for her, oh just to clarify the door was locked and we have each others keys.

Why do I suddenly now feel like a social pariah for doing these things ? I love my DS to bits and would never knowingly do anything to harm him. However I also love my DH as well and for everyones sakes I believe its important that we have a strong and happy marriage, which in my mind means we need to spend the odd bit of time together alone and when DS is asleep seems like a good time to do it.

I believe the risks I take are reasonable ones and I am going to continue to take them.