RISK you take with your children

[mylittleimps]

Xenia said: "Anything can be discussed. Start a risk thread. Namby pamby look after children all the time parents who don't let them go out alone, run in forests, ride horses and risk death damage their children hugely. ", she also said that the case of Madeleine McCann would not change her in as much she would still leave a similar age child alone and go out to dinner in similar circumstances. Xenia also said it was just the same as putting them to bed and going down stairs to have dinner.

i let my young children ride horses, play outside witha river at the bottom of the garden or at their grandparents with a lake. they have lived in a "construction site" since birth, i let them sleep on their fronts BUT i would never ever leave them alone and go out to dinnerb or even leave my rpoperty boundary. and it is not the same putting them to bed and going down stairs.

i believe now the McCanns have pubilically stated that the quilt will never leave them and the poor child is still missing this is a debate that should be had now as if some people can still say it's acceptable is worrying (to me) and I believe children are still at risk if this message is left unchecked

so where fdo you draw the line at risks wrt your children (we all know that as parents we have to take them)

me too

I don't understand why people are still doing this.

You do not know the McCanns, you do not know of the situation in the resort they were staying at, you were not there on the night so you don't know the circumstances. You are judging based on what you have read in the media.

That's not very intelligent is it?

They have lost their little girl, what other punishment would you like to cast on them?

People make mistakes, we are not all perfect, sometimes we let our guard down. Don't tell me you've never done this. You might nip up to the loo whilst your 3yo is downstairs playing, if he then put his fingers in an electric socket would it give us the right to berate you for leaving him whilst you had a piss?

As I said, you don't know them personally and you were not there, so sod off back to your own perfect life and feel free to look down on the rest of us like you already feel free to do.

One of the things my HV said to me in the early days was "remember to put your own needs first sometimes. Anyone who hasn't looked after themself, isn't going to be very good at looking after anyone else."

I thought that was very good advice and as they get older even more so. It is good for children to understand that they are not the centre of the universe, that sometimes Mummy needs a rest, that they can't always get what they want from her because she too, has needs that have to be met and they're every bit as important as theirs.

I've never fancied the martyr school of motherhood, it sounds exhausting.

told you you'd get shot down for having an opinion

(my post today at 17.38)

How is it shot down? I'm giving my opinion, which is different from yours.

You seem to have a shaky grasp of the meaning of debate.

If you judge parents who have lost a child then yes you will get shot down.

I think it's terribly unfair to base your judgements on third hand information. Media information at that.

Not a very nice thing to do and something loving parents could do without to be honest.

Oh and on Mumsnet the McCanns have actually already been slated lots and lots and lots. I think it's wearing a bit thin now.

Reading this I think I must be quite lax. I have never, ever taken the children into the petrol station to pay. When they were young I would avoid having to get petrol if I thought it might upset them, but now I know it won't I just do it as required.

But OTOH watching DS drive a neighbour's go-kart down the road completely oblivious to the BMW X5 behind him while I was shouting and my friend was shouting both from the pavement and DH was shouting from our drive I am quite wary re road safety.

"again i'm interested not judgemental"

Wow, would love to see you when you're being judgemental!

"the needs of the child especially the very young should be first and foremost in every decision"

One can have the needs of the children first and foremost, and still come to a different conclusion from ones you have taken. You seem to have a very simple view of life ie there is one correct path only, and that is not the case. For some parents having their kids up with them in the evening, or sleeping in a stroller, is the right decision, but forothers, the idea of 3 under4s in a busy area would be more risky. Others may use a babysitter whilst others view that a strange babysitter is too great a risk. You don't seem to have commented as to whether room-listening is OK - is it you view that anything less than 24/7 presence with children is OK, or is it acceptable to leave them with a babysitter (and if so how far do you check the babysitter?). The McCanns had the needs of the children at the front of their mind when they chose not to use the nightcreche. They would have made a different decision if they thought that an abductor was around.

You haven't said exactly what this law would state - would leaving a child with a room listening service be "neglect"? What about the age of a child - can they be left when they are 15? What about 14? What about 9?Where is your cut-off? Do you accept that other parents might want a different cut-off? Do you ever leave your child with your dh? What about the fact that it is more likely that he would abuse your children than for a stranger to abduct them?[I'm not saying that this is your particular case, but it is an illustration of why a law wouldn't work]. There is a reason why the current law is not black and white:- because there is not a black and white definition of neglect of children. What would be neglectful in one situation would be fine, and may be preferable in another.

Bozza, in other countries petrol retailers actually require you to leave your children in the car whilst you pay due to the safety concerns (mainly risk of collision). The law hasn't been changed here in the UK becuase otherwise petrol retailers would be forced to use pay-at-pump technology which they don't want to do because the majority of the profit made is from non-petrol goods purchased in the stores. I've seen the stats on injuries for one of the big petrol retailers in the UK, and I would never take my kids across a forecourt to pay for petrol.

That any parent feels qualified to judge another based on such little information is quite worrying.

I wonder if it makes them feel better about themselves? Putting themselves above other parents? They must be very insecure in themselves if they feel the need to do this.

I'm actually quite angry about this. I don't see what these threads achieve other than to confirm the OP's over-inflated sense of importance.

My mother feels she has the right to judge too. Pity she doesn't spend more time looking at her own life first.

Why, when lots of people have presented perfectly rational points of view on this, do we have to go back to:

martyr mother = good
leaving children sleeping whilst having dinner = bad

It's just not that clear cut - doesn't the whole thread indicate that? Whilst there's all this comment about being shot down, I feel that unless there is total agreement with the OP, the thread continues until the OP has the last word and everyone else has been posted into submission.

i repeat i appreciate this discussion as perhaps i have subconciously just surrounded myself with like minded mothers and i have by accident missed what actually goes on in the UK/world

i haven't commented on the ins and outs of the McCann's actions because of exactly the fact i don't know exactly what happened and in what sequence of events. all i know for sure they went out, and left their children sleeping alone in their holiday apartment. fact.

i have never suggested i am perfect (as i am not) and i understand that i probably do seem to be a martyr but i don't feel that i am one.

I am not criticising the McCann's by this thread but i do want changes in attitudes going forward and therefore some good to come out of this horrible situation where a little girl is missing. because IMHO it's not the feelings of the parents that bothers me it's that of the child (i'm sorry but that's me, of course i can empathise with if my ds was missing how i would feel but that is it for the parents). so it's not about apportioning blame.

i have opinions on the McCann's interviews but they are irrelevant to discovering the risks "every day" people take and that is what interests me, me being one of those risk takers and i just don't think any of the risks included in this thread are the same as leaving a child alone sleeping whilst you go out to dinner (apart from one or two that are just that)

True.

The thread achieves nothing.

The OP just wants to share her view that she is a perfect parent and those who disagree are below her. There is no debate.

She has referred to the children as "poor" as if they are lacking in love or something.

I feel sorry for anyone whose opinion is so narrow.

not read all the thread, but everybody will do something that another parent will never dream of.
I would never leave my dd alone. But I do let her play in the bath (19 months) while I'm sat in the bedroom. I can see her, but not in the same room as her.

mylittleimps - so you want us all to say that yes, you are right and we are all wrong and how dreadful for our children that we put them at such risk! Never mind that most of them don't even know their parents are anywhere else. Never mind that more children are killed on roads whilst with their parents than are abducted.

Your opinion is extremely narrow and you come across as smug and self-important.

I really don't know why you started this thread.

i think i only ever refered to the poor child is still missing (in the OP), yes she is probably lacking the love she deserves right now, don't you think, ie from her family,

if i said poor children anywhere else please let me know

Rhubarb - I know, and the reference to social class thing is ridiculous too.

mylittleimps - I have subconsciously (or otherwise) surrounded myself with a complete mix of mothers and very refreshing it is too!

Ladymuck, I agree with every word you've posted on this thread.

That quote didn't escape me either mumemma but I couldn't be bothered commenting on that. Seems as though she has lots of problems of her own and really should take a long hard look at her own life and her attitudes.

MylittleImps - I have read a few of your comments on different issues (alcohol in pregnancy, boycotting carbonated drinks and now this one). You are consistently judgemental, yet profess to be merely "interested". That's bollocks frankly.

fine but so is everyone by the nature they make comments, but let's be sensible i haven't judged anyone, i have merely stated what i do and i don't agree with some people's attitude but that is not passing judgement.

i am interested, if i wasn't i wouldn't post or i'd just be rude.

Read your posts back and then tell me that you have not come across as judgemental.

Our children are not short of love. If you are that concerned then you should campaign on behalf of kids who are abused every day, who are devoid of any love whatsoever. Put your energies into working for the NSPCC or whatever. Then I might take your opinions more seriously. But all I see you as is a mother who is full of opinions but no action.

MLI: persuading the Government to make yet another law controlling parents' behaviour would probably not be that difficult to do, but it would be another unmitigated disaster, as any law proposed by sentimental, self-rightous fuckwits is bound to be. People make risk assessments in parenting every minute of every day, and sometimes those risks are about getting or doing something we as parents want, and that's cool. Being a whining martyr of a mother will not only turn your DCs into horrible egotistical brats who can't make friends (look at any copy of Vix featuring SPoilt Bastard for an object lesson) but won't make them grateful to you in the long run, either.

thank you but my children are very sociable and very caring/thoughful of others.

it's my personal choice the risks i allow in their lives as is everyone's on what to do but let's face it when it comes to neglect you should loose that right to decide on what to do.

i'm glad i have the life i do and would hate to have any other, i like my friends and love my DH and have two wonderful intellegent, happy, inquisitive dc's
that's not being smug that's being grateful for what you have.

leaving your children alone when you leave the property IS neglect and that alone needs clarified in law.

fGS if a baby dies and they discover the mother places him/her on her front to sleep then she would be accused of neglect

it is not me that is narrow minded by the virtue i tried to discover and understand how others are about risk. i've stated what i believe but if people didn't do that there wouldn't be any postings would there?

i've posted on things that matter to me so what? i haven't slagged anyone off. if anyone as taken offence perhaps they need to look at their own insecurities first.

insecurities - perhaps thats why people get angry and rude on MN so much.

lol.

children are little for such a short space why is it so wrong to think they need protecting above all else in life for that time?

Why is there so much rudeness and name-calling from one side of this debate? It demeans your arguments Im afraid.