Is six children too many ?

[mozhe]

Someone,( a colleague..but I do not know them well ), just stopped me in the corridor at work...noticing I was pregnant they asked me if it was my first, when I told them ,' no, it's my 6th '...they said,' six is too many ', and strod off....Is six too many ?

its absolutely great that people take time off after birth, or go back to work slowly if they have the choice.
I just had a thought though, i'm just glad some women do chose to work, and enjoy / are passionate about working.
The alternative scares me more:
I have an image of a woman in my head who has it 'all', husband with loads of money, has help from nannies, chefs, cleaners, is rested enough to look after the children, but not all the time. This is ok, enjoy it, but even more worrying competes with other women to see who has the 'best' children, best house, most luxurious lifestyle.
i have to admit the thought of only have this option, or being around these women scares me more (although im sure theyre are some lovely ones) than having the choice (or maybe not choice but lack of judgement from society - not mn tho judge away) to be like mozhe or kate moss (couldnt think of anyone else soz!).
(i know x and m can cause hostile reactions, i know i got peed off about the alpha mummy thing)
but aside that i do think its good we dont have to be all perfect images of 1950 wifedom, cos it would drive me mad
ok rant over!!

I think it's wonderful when mothers can have jobs in which they do not have to deny their children's existence.

Unfortunately, many jobs still require that women behave as if they didn't have any domestic or childcare responsibilities. In a firm where I used to work, women returning from maternity leave would regularly be sent on missions in another country (Monday to Friday away from home in a hotel) for several weeks...

Or you could do "part-time" - 8am to midnight three days a week, on permanent call by phone/email the other two...

gosh i watched some 'odd marriages' show late on where 'Joyce' was marrying 'sheeny' in full christian stylie and perparing herslef for a life of submission - tis woman had been to Cambridge fgs

i dont do that 1950s stuff - and - whilst i am a sahm- i was up at 1 am last night talking projected budgets for our business

sahm through and through me but with a toe nail in water of 'work'

Otter - you are quite right, being a SAHM does not particularly equate with submission to a man... that is another, entirely separate, issue.

Interestingly enough, my partner often regales me with hilarious stories of women he interviews for jobs (he employs lots and lots of women) who talk about their careers, their commitment etc to them and he frequently finds they are walking-talking robots who are unable to see that they are working purely in response to societal expectations that they do so and completely unaware that they are sacrificing themselves to do so.

and i should add im not even talking about the women who's husband's work really hard, and travel alot for work. hence have more money. And find they need paid help because unlike some of us with dhs in less well paid jobs,dont get as much help with the childcare. Thats probably no easy ride either.
Anna8888 i do think its really tough if the only decision is a rigid work life that takes up all your family time - thats no good (if you dont want it that way) either!
Otter full respect to sahm, i admit i found it too hard
i guess i do have someone in mind when i get so angry at the women i mentioned, a 'got him to marry me, cat that got the cream, woman of such smugness, i would never work, but i need help with the housework/cooking darling, so i can treat everyone that doesnt have this luxury like they are damaging their children, type of superiority'. The ones that constantly endeavour to project such familial perfection. Yep they're the ones i cant be around without wanting to hit a wall.
Thank goodness lives are usually a bit harder and more real for most people than this

anna8888 you dont think that about mozhe do you?, ie the societal expectations? i can tell she loves her job (as i do mine i admit, different to mozhe in creative field, but do it pt so not away from family too much, for me) - would you except that some women just love what they do aswell, and all working women arent like these robots?

bettybobo - no, I don't think that about Mozhe personally. However, I think that it is overly simplistic to say that (a) all women should return work when they have children as that is not feasible in all lines of work without making enormous sacrifices towards one's family and (b) that a WOHM is liberated and a SAHM submissive. There are lots and lots of very submissive WOHMs in this neck of the woods...

anna yes i agree, im sure in the city (is that where it was?) there are some women who are repressing some of their feminine side to reach the top of their field, and that is a shame
and absolutely dont think sahm = submissive and wohm =powerful
and i know if i did my old job, the one before i found a freelance creative one, i wouldnt have gone back to that fulltime either, not worth it
But on a personal level as someone who is trying to balance being totally in to what i do and need to give my children as much as i can, i do feel a bit torn, and its nice to read that are other women like mozhe love working too.
and for you i would say you made the right decision on the little that i know!! i probably wouldnt chose a city job with those hours either

Bettybobo - not in the City, but similar (management consulting). I left before I had children as I could see what lay ahead. None of my former female colleagues work in that firm now. I only know a couple of women who have made it to the top in that field and they are complete cows (for want of a better expression) with two full-time live-in nannies each...

anna i did economics/arts at university (hence my split personality) and lots of my friends did management consulting in one of the 6 big firms. Some didnt last more than a few years its tough as boots in there sometimes, a few had breakdowns and ended up doing something more compatible such as teaching (which is great for them i think). a few, older than us, reach the top and as my friend told me they were hard as nails. Now unless you are like xenia and mozhe who sound like they are happier doing what they do - that is no way to live either. I totally agree

bettybobo - I didn't hate my job at all, even though it was often very tiring and time-consuming. But I certainly didn't think it was compatible with any kind of life outside work - you know it isn't when you eat 21 meals a week with your team mates...

I was in a strategy house, too, so much more interesting than a big 6 - I think so, anyway

cool i got to go now, to work. much to addicted to this damn mn

Bettyboo - am I your 1950s housewife?! I thought that the other day as I went to pick up DH's drycleaning, waddling along with fat tummy pushing toddler in buggy, saying hello to other mums in the street, complaining about him having to disappear off to Bangalore again. How the hell did all that happen without me noticing?

I was a management consultant too - agree that it's not compatible with any sort of family life, so didn't go back. Didn't really bank on picking up drycleaning and organising tea mornings, but I have loved watching DS grow up this far.

I also don't feel bad about not working at the minute as I was more than happy to pay DH through school - and we're a partnership, it's just the balance has shifted for a while. And I'll go back and work bloody hard again, I'm sure, but hopefully manage to be around to see the kids grow up too. And if it doesn't work out, I'll make changes until it (hopefully) does.

I think that the media promotes an image of some women having it all. I think we all strive to have what suits us best, x and m one thing, many others something different. And working to earn money doesn't buy endless time with your kids - but it does buy quality time for what you have left. WOHMs spend more time with their kids these days than SAHMs in the 50s (not just anecdotal, proper research I'm pretty sure).

3flightsofstairs tbh i think i had a nasty run in with a woman who treated me like i was damaging my children by working pt. She definitely gave me - oh but its a luxury to stay home with help and god forbid if you didnt pick a man that can allow you to do that. I guess i was pee'd cos after spending the first part of my life travelling, working being independent, studying, trying really hard to be good at stuff (cos i enjoyed it) i realised in a world with everyone like this woman it wouldnt matter a tosh. I would be judged on the size of my house and family like every other woman. so when i read that there were a few women on here that worked cos they enjoyed it i felt a bit heartened and not so different? iyswim
Im sorry it was a bit of a rant, and honestly i have so much respect for sahm, i find it a bit hard to do. i really do think women that stopped those crazy full time jobs to raise children are making good sacrifices for their children
Im just slightly less loopy knowing that both sahm and wohm do exist. So no i dont think you fit a 1950s wife!
i also think im tryoing to hold on to some of my pre-baby life too, house in city (rather than bigger one in burbs etc) i think as time passes and i if have more dcs then this will fade and practicality will dictate i make the same choices. I think im fighting it! so seeing x and m helps me keep going a bit longer
i really dont judge anyone, people do whats right for them. It was this one woman i think that made me want to hit a wall!!

oh after this tirade from this woman i saw everyone in the room mentally adjust and look nervous. how could they justify this and that if someone was steamrolling everyone off-standard decision a woman should make (it was quite interesting to see!). and with the moral highground she had us stumped! we didnt know if we were damaging our dcs really by working pt.

It sounds like this woman would do more damage by inflicting her opinions on anyone who will listen than any of her perceived damage that you could do by working PT.

I have a feeling that women who care about their children and who even think about their lifestyle are probably doing the right thing for their families. And no 2 are the same.

I know what you mean about wanting to retain some kind of normality in your life. We're about to move from zone1 to zone3 and I'm really nervous about living in the burbs. I suspect zone3 isn't really the burbs (!) but I've always lived in the centre of any city (apart from growing up in a small town).

I think 6 is too many when you don't look after the 5 you already have. I'm can't see the point in having children for other people to bring up - they are not fashion accessories.

Controversial winniepoo - lots of mums work - including me. I don't condemn mums who stay at home, so don't understand why I should be condemned for going out to work. We are lucky to be a generation that (more or less) has a choice.