Shouted at and punished my 3y/o and feel so guilty.

[QueenAmongstMen]

I think I just need to get this off my chest and hopefully get support and reassurance off other parents who have experienced this guilt.

I have a 3.5 year old son who although had his challenging moments is in lots of other ways a fantastic child and I love him to pieces.

I also have a 9 week old baby and my 3y/o has had to come to terms with a lot of adjustments since the baby came along. Me and DH expected a deterioration in DS's behaviour and agreed that we'd pick our battles with him and perhaps be a bit more lenient with him to accommodate his reaction to the baby arriving. In general that's worked well, he gushes over the baby, shows no jealousy towards him at all but me and DH are having to deal with some difficult attention seeking behaviour.

Today our 3y/o has been pushing our buttons and deliberately and repeatedly doing things we've asked him not to over and over again. This includes things like jumping on the sofa, throwing the baby's playmat around, trying to climb into the baby's bouncy chair and many other behaviours. I hate the way he looks at us when he does these things because it's like he's goading us. I know it's all part of him wanting our attention since the baby arrives but it's just so hard to manage sometimes.

It all came to a head this evening when after all day of him misbehaving he screamed when his dinner was put in from of him, refused to eat it (he's had it plenty of times before), went hysterical, started shouting, kept getting up from the table and trying to run off and as a result of him persistently being silly he ultimately knocked his plate off the table which ended up face down on our new carpet. He stopped in his tracks then because he knew things had gone too far. My DH told him that he wasn't getting anything else to eat and sent him to his room to calm down.

I was then in the living room cleaning up DS's toys and the baby was on the play mat in the corner of the room. DS suddenly ran into the room like a little whirlwind and went over to the playmat and completely unexpectedly started hitting the baby on his stomach which then led to the baby crying. I couldn't believe what I was seeing as DS had never shown any worrying behaviours towards the baby and I just lost it.

I put DS on the naughty step and told him that he must never EVER hit his baby brother and that I was extremely angry at him. I used a tone of voice with him that I've never used before but after him being disobedient all day and then hitting the baby I just couldn't take anymore. He messed around on his naughty step, shouting out, blowing raspberries and just generally trying to get a reaction out of us.

By this point me and DH were drained and told him that he'd behaved so badly all day that he was going to bed early.

Prior to putting him into bed I told him again how disappointed I was that he'd hit his baby behaviour and even more upset because he hadn't apologised for it.

Tonight DS was put to bed by DH (I usually do it) without having had any tea and no bedtime stories and songs which is what I normally do with him.

There's no way I could have done our normal bedtime routine though because I couldn't have him thanking that his awful behaviour during the day was being excused or that him hitting the baby didn't have consequences. I felt angry towards him.

Anyhow, I've just gone into his room and thought how angelic he looks when he's asleep. I tucked him in and kissed his head and the guilt just started creeping up on me.

His behaviour has never been as bad as it was today, usually he has a few little moments during the day but is otherwise well behaved. Today he was just so deliberately naughty almost from the moment he woke up and me and DH hit the point of feeling like he should be punished. I really hate that word.

I'm sorry this post is so long, I just needed to get it off my chest. I have told DH that I feel guilty about how the day ended but he said I shouldn't as DS's behaviour had been awful all day and that hitting the baby just cannot be condoned.

Has anyone else had days and feelings like this?

I'm breast feeding DS2 which obviously makes it difficult for me and DS1 to have long periods of one-to-one time though I do try where possible.

Make that a special time for him too. Can you pull together a basket of books/quiet toys that he likes/new DVD that you can enjoy together whilst baby is feeding. You can cuddle him with one arm and baby with another. It should stop him feeling pushed out several times a day.

I tried to spend time with him whilst breast feeding but DS just uses it as another way to play up. He constantly pulls on the baby's arms and legs, pats his head repeatedly and touches his face etc which obviously means the baby is constantly disrupted and it just leads to me getting frustrated with DS all over again.

Thankfully the baby is a really quick feeder and it only takes ten minutes to feed and wind him so at least it doesn't take me away from DS for long periods.

I've spoken to DS this morning about him hitting the baby and he said that doing that had meant he hadn't been a good big brother and then he went and said sorry to the baby.

Attention seeking behaviour is in full force already today, making demands, stamping his feet, throwing his toys, shouting No at everything we ask him to do and constantly blowing raspberries and drooling down himself before laughing.

I'm already fed up.

You sound amazing, there is no way I could have been that calm all day! And he's not going to die going to bed with no dinner.

I agree with the other poster regarding love bombing not punishment.

Just as you can’t control your feelings of frustration and exasperation with your son right now, nor can a three year old control his feelings of confusion and loss over the biggest change in his life so far.

He needs to feel better to behave better and the way to help to make him feel better is to keep showering him with love, patience, and understanding.

I know it is challenging now but you won’t look back and regret showing your son nothing but unconditional love.

I’d really recommend Laura Markham’s Aha parenting books and website for brilliantly practical ways to parent with kindness instead of punishment.

www.ahaparenting.com/

If DH is at home send them out to the park or something. They can have some one on one time and you can have a break. When DS2 feeds are a bit more spaced out in weeks to come you can take DS1 out by yourself on similar days so it’s just the two of you and DH can look after baby.

You’re doing great - we’ve all had days like that.

Ps with a tgeee year old and tiny baby CBeebies is your friend.

I wouldn't over think this. Your son was very naughty and hurt his baby brother and so you shouted at him and punished him. Totally normal parenting! That kind of parenting raises normal, responsible children.

And a bit of punishment doesn't scar children! Love bomb them the rest of the time but kids need to know when they've crossed the line.

Oh give over JigglyTuff

New carpet with a baby and a toddler? New carpet where you EAT? Should have waited a few years.
DP needs to take the toddler out and show him a good time. A toddler can’t sit round the house all day trying to be good. He needs to be distracted, entertained and tired out in a pleasant manner. This IS his reaction to the new baby. He’s trying to behave positively but subconsciously he is ‘angry’ at being displaced and it comes out in this type of behaviour.

Normally we go out somewhere each day, even if it's just a quick visit to the park but we stayed in yesterday as the baby was a bit under the weather. My DH would normally have taken him out but I wanted him at home so I could spend some time with him. DH and DS have been on a 5 day holiday and only came back late Wednesday night so I want to be around him as we've been apart from a while. I worry that see ding him off with his dad all the time will just strengthen his thoughts that I don't have time for him anymore or that I love the baby more than him. I think for things to settle down a bit I need to spend more time him, not less.

Me, DS and baby are going out for a few hours this afternoon and I'm looking forward to it as like I said, his behaviour is much better when his dad isn't around.

I think me and DH need to sit down and decide together how we are going to tackle this because at the minute we aren't on the page and I do think he expects too much from DS and I think he's unnecessarily harsh on him at times.

Do you have a really good, comfortable carrier for the baby? I often fed mine hands free as I walked down the street or did other things around the house, so my older child was barely aware that the baby was feeding. If you feel able to do this (I know that it is not for everyone!), it can make a big difference to how much you can do with your boys.

It's my opinion fluffysparks. I'm entitled to it

I don't think it's a good idea to deny a child that young food and no, I'm not apologising for thinking that. Obviously he was playing up and obviously the OP needed to make clear that it was absolutely not okay. But associating food with reward/punishment isn't great IMO.

Reading your last post Queen, I think it's pretty clear why your DS behaved like he did yesterday - he was bored, he had been missing you and then he felt like you prioritised the baby so he had a strop.

It's a really difficult age and I think you are spot on with thinking you need to spend more time together and also agree a way forward with your DH. It's quite common when a new baby comes along to treat the older child as much older than they really are - your 3 year old is still a baby too - just a bigger one! Really hope today is a much better day :)

Absolutely love-bombing and no more punishment, and DON’T make him say sorry. I had this with DS1 when DS2 was the same age, the novelty had worn off and he realised baby wasn’t going anywhere. He NEEDS to know you don’t love him any less - by naughty-stepping him and sending him to his room you’re telling him the exact opposite and his behaviour will escalate.

When he screams, put baby to one side and cuddle and cuddle and cuddle. The magic phrase which worked with DS1 was, ‘It’s really hard being a big brother isn’t it?’ It turned his screaming into pitiful sobbing like he knew I’d finally ‘got it’.

Definitely 1:1 time with him where you can, in a place of his choosing.

Leave baby and DS with your husband- seems odd, but shows your DS that daddy is capable of looking after the two of them as well. In fact, give DS some responsibility - ‘show daddy how baby likes to play with...’ to make your DS feel important.

Make gingerbread men families with your DS - get him to describe himself and baby.

Can’t think of any more now, but it worked a treat with DS1, and he and DS2 are now best mates. (5yo and 3yo).

DH and DS have been on a 5 day holiday and only came back late Wednesday night

That's quite a significant dripfeed!

DS has been bought up to always apologise if he hurts someone, be it on purpose or an accident, so he apologised to his brother off his own back, I didn't ask him too. It was quite sweet realky as he gave him a cuddle and said "I'm sorry [baby's name] for hitting you" and then gave him a kiss on his cheek.

I try to involve DS as much as I can, he picks the baby's outfit every morning, he helps with nappy changes, he lies on the play mat with him and shows him story books, he helps out at bath time and whenever we go out he's always allowed to push the pram with me as he loves doing it. He's allowed to sit on the sofa and hold the baby for short periods and he's always asking to have photos with him.

Whenever the baby cries DS will come running in and say "It's ok [babys name], your big brother is here" usually followed by him hollering to me, "Mommy, [baby's name] wants you, I think he wants milk!!!"

A lot of the time when DH is home I will feed the baby and then hand him over so I can spend some time playing with DS. I do bathtime and bedtime 90% of the time because it allows me and DS to have that one hour of peaceful and quality time together.

He has never showed any feelings of disdain or resentment towards the baby which is why yesterday shocked me so much.

That's quite a significant dripfeed!

Why is it?

These behaviours have been going on a long time before their trip away took place.

Because it explains why he behaved as he did - he's not a machine, this stuff affects him in ways he can't describe with words.

You said he's used to spending lots of time with you. He's missing that and probably doesn't know that the baby won't always need so much of your time.

Imagine your husband brought a second wife home. I expect you'd behave quite badly as a reaction. That's basically what you've done to your son. And he doesn't have the benefit of rational thinking.

I'm having troublesome behaviour with my 3yo at the mo and new baby coming in January so interesting to read these ideas.
for you op.

Or empathy, Titty which is why you don’t punish because he’s not deliberately goading you - he would need to be able to see/understand things from your perspective to do that, OP, which he won’t be developmentally capable of for another couple of years yet. I didn’t actually start using any kind of exclusion as a consequence with my older son until it was clear he had empathy for that reason. Excluding a child without empathy equates in their little minds to withdrawal of love.

He’s playing up to see if you’ll still love him, even if he does X,Y, Z. Give him that reassurance beyond all doubt, and pre-empt it as much as you possibly can, and he will stop. You will not be rewarding ‘bad behaviour’ - you will be giving him the reassurance he needs. You have the perfect example of this in your DH - you say your husband is harsher with your DS, and that your DS’s behaviour is worse around him.

I have a two year old and a baby and your toddlers behaviour was very familiar. Try not to feel too guilty. No one is perfect and we all lose our temper. He'll be fine.

Look at it from his point of view though - he probably is feeling a bit jealous/put out/insecure at this new bundle taking lots of your attention. He acts 'badly' because he doesn't know what to do with these feelings. His parents (understandable don't get me wrong) response is to send to room/naughty step/leave hungry - to him these are all thing that suggest his fears are true, he isn't loved as much anymore, in fact he isn't even loveable anymore because he's bad.

I get it I do, I've been the same. But when I make the effort to take a moment and connect with my older son, his behaviour stops escalating straight away and things are better the rest of the day. When I manage that and when I don't, the difference in him is night and day.

I was really struggling but this article really helped, followed by this article. When you're angry, your toddler no doubt feels like the enemy, but he's really not. It's more effort to pause and reconnect and I probably only manage it about 50% of the time at the moment, which is silly because it makes such a difference.

Also meant to say that my son is worse when DP is around too. I think it's because I give him the baby straight away as I need a break and we're talking the whole time about what needs doing and my toddler hardly gets a look in. We try and have one of us spend time with him alone getting ready for bed now which seems to help.

Also just to clarify the 'not being as loved anymore' - it's his perspective I'm referring to of course, not suggesting for a moment that's how you feel.

Do you think it’s related to the fact that you stayed in all day?
I had 2 with a similar age gap and I had to take them out every day otherwise the toddler would play up.
Even just a walk to the shops.
If not out, then play in the garden.

I also recommend the ahaparenting site. There’s a suggestion on that site of daily physical play with kids. Even just 10 minutes if pretending to be a kissing or hug monster and chasing your toddler around can make a difference. It definitely did for us.
My kids still ask for those games almost 10 years later!