Ds (3.2) doesn't seem to enjoy family time - time with dh and mummy - what to do ?

[Oblomov]

This is a seriousy enquiry to you all. Hoping that any child pyschologists, or anyone with expreince, can provide with with a step-by-step-guide, or a good book to refer to.

From previous posts that you may have seen, that I am trying to re-create, atleast a lttle bit, the way I was bought up. I do of course realise that things have changed - e.g. my mum spent all her time raising me and my two older brothers. We only played with he girl next door, occassionally. We went to a playgroup once a week for an hour or so. My mum bought us up. That was the norm in those days.
Now, my ds is at nursery 1/2 the time. I have him at home with only me on a wed and fri.

There are lots of bits of his behaviour that we find unacceptable. We are trying to address this and change our parenting techniques.

But regarding this particular issue -
when he is with us, he doesn't seem to enjoy 'family time - i.e. with Me AND Dh. He plays up, more, than when he is with just the one of us. And he has ruined, just about every family outing we have had in the last year and half.
He likes one to one attention.

Mow, maybe nursery is not for him. Maybe he would be better off with a childminder.
But as far as hoome life is concerned, not only does this make me unhappy - because I used to LOVE sepnding time with my mum and dad: but I think it is UNHEALTHY.

I want to change it. How do I do this in a gentle, step-by-step way ?

Ineffective, sorry

Not sure I've understood right but are you sayng you punish at the end of the morning, for example, for a serious of possibly "minor" things? Because I think small children are a bit like pets - you have to dole out the punishment AT THE TIME of the naughtiness - otherwise they won't make the connection. And tbh these misdemenours sound pretty normal and minor for a toddler...

I also find that my children can be worse behaved when dh is also around - I think some of this is because he does have too high expectations of them and because he doesn't have all-day care of them he hasn't grasped the concept of "picking your battles".

KTeePee -
I read somewhere (one of my many parenting books, no doubt) that up until the age of 2 a human child develops at roughly the same pace as a chimpanzee child. So a three year old is only slightly removed from being like a pet as you say!

Funny, my nickname for ds2 (1) is chimpy

I don't use words like 'unacceptable' to my 3 year old, because I don't think she gets it. I jolly her along, like Aloha suggests, or I distract her (I do that a lot). Essentially I try hard not to get into a situation where we are at loggerheads. Because it feels weird to be squaring up to a 3 year old. Where it is unavoidable and she does something 'unacceptable', knowingly, after being warned, I will put a toy on a high shelf. I also praise her to the skies when she does something good.

And as I said, if we are out and about and she throws a wobbly, we scoop her up and carry on. Invariably she calms down after a while and we start again. We don't then punish later on. We don't revisit bad behaviour. It works with ds (5), but not dd.

In fact, I often take mine out and about when they are driving me bonkers at home. I find a change of routine really helps defuse flashpoints.

Having said all this, I doubt my dd is the kind of model you want for your ds. But my methods keep me sane.

Not sure "the look" is always based on fear, Psycho. DS is only 2.2 and sometimes I manage to pull off "the look" but it's basically just a "this is very tedious and not at all funny" look, because when he's playing up it's generally in the belief that it's really funny. I don't think there's any fear involved in his reaction (when it works, which is only some of the time, admittedly -- but as long as he's not tired or hungry I get a reasonable hit rate). I guess there are looks and looks.

I agree with Aloha about making things fun. DS will do anything for my MIL, almost immediately, because she's got the perfect knack of knowing exactly how to approach a subject to achieve the result that she wants without the conflict ever arising. But then she's brought up three children of her own and childminded a couple of other toddlers here and there. I don't think I do a bad job with DS, but I take copious mental notes of what she does and I am pretty sure I'll do a better job of managing behaviour with a hypothetical #2 or #3, because I'll have had more experience. And then when my kids have children I shall be very experienced and make it all look easy, bwahahahaha.

And I agree with colditz that at three he doesn't understand remote consequences. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that children don't really grasp the concept of "later" until, well, later. So at your DS's age consequences (whether positive or negative) need to follow right on the heels of the specific behaviour to have any effect. It may be helpful to identify one or two behaviours that you want to target and focus on those until they improve, then move on to some others.

How does your DS behave when with you and another adult, Oblomov? E.g. if he goes out with you and your mother, rather than you and your DH? Come to think of it, what does your mother do in those circumstances (given it's her parenting you're keen to emulate) and how does your DS respond?

Lemonaid,I'd say a look which conveys 'I'm not amused' to a child playing up trying to be funny, is based on disapproval and it works because the child 'fears' or doesn't want that disaproval. I agree fear may not be the best word in that scenario, but it's basically them responding to the threat of sometjhing they don't want(or fear) disapproval or other negative consequnce.

I'm very impressed you can do that with a 2yr old. My DS2 is 3yrs and a real joker, unfortunately my distainful look is undermined by his older brother gufawing with great hilarity at his inappropriate clowning about

Not always by any means... spent a chunk of this morning trying to catch him while he ran away giggling manaically and thinking it was tremendous fun. In fact, it's entirely possible that the frequency of success is not statistically significant...

Only read first few posts- but the problem is unrealistic expectations. All perfectly normal behaviour. I think parental expectations/attitudes need to change tbh.

Had exactly the same issue with DS1 which largely manifested itself with him being objectionable to my Mum! Very difficult time because obviously she thought he must be like that all the time. He's stopped this now but even now Sunday lunch can be a nightmare.

He's competing for attention and it's normal behaviour that he will grow out of.

Life is so short, your child's childhood will be gone in a flash. Please enjoy him, lighten up, relax....he is far far too young to respond to the strategies you describe. Why not contact your local NSPCC for some leaflets or advice, they are usually good on what's age appropriate.

The things you are remembering from your childhood are NOT from when you were three. Your mum will have forgotten LOADS of the day to day annoyances of all her children... it happens, my ds is five soon and I've ALREADY forgotten lots!

Please do research expert advice on what is age appropriate. And have some fun with him; 99 percent of stuff is NOT a discipline issue; if he won't do as he's told then as Aloha said, make it a joint effort to find the shoes or make it a competition or a race, pretend you hear the shoes calling out in a tiny voice from the cupboard or something.....goof around, have fun and you and your ds will enjoy these precious, precious years rather than you feeling you have to expect immediate obedience. It's just not realistic at all to expect that. And you will drive yourself mad and make your child unhappy if that is what you want.

Oblomov: Reading your posts again I wonder whether there are issues here which are deeper than they appear - you sound so unhappy and I'm not sure why?

You frequently talk about your mother - are you still trying to be A Good Girl, and bring your boy up in a way that your mother approves of?

You sound as though you have deeper issues - your language of "recreating" your childhood is very peculiar. I can understand that you love and respect your mum but you don't talk much about what fun you had and what a laugh she was.

How would you feel if you were bringing your boy up in ways that your mother disapproved of? Feeding him chocolate and letting him run around with no shoes on or something?!

Are you worried about your mother's disapproval in how you are bringing up your baby boy?

Whose apron strings is this about?

O.K. I am back now.
Ds is in bed.
I will responfd to a couple of posts and then will write one specifically for pyscho.
Am I unhappy Morningpaper ? Yes, I definitely am. I have cried alot recently. Cried about making such a bodge of parenting. Cried that I have tried all the ignoring, praising, naughty step , star charts techniques to no avail.

Is my relationship with my mum an issue ? Possibly. I can see faults in her though. I do believe she did a pretty good job and that I can take alot of her basics from her. I don't understand why everyone sees that as so extreme.

I was really really hurt by scottishthistles post:
"I'm your Mother do as your told or I'll shout so loud I terrify you into doing what I want you to do!?!"
I do believe that alot of todays society and indeed Mumsnett, is too permissive and pandering to children.
A minority I am.
But I am not a monster.
It doesn't make me WRONG.
And not for one minute have I suggested shouting or going back to the dark ages behaviour.

Oblomov - I think you are probably parenting as best as anyone could. Perhaps it's just that your parenting techniques are better aimed at ds when he is older. Don't think that anything you do at 3 will 'ruin' him or your family in anyway. Just step back and see what happns if you chill out a little and then take some of the advice of people on here, mix it up to your liking and start a new style of doing things that fits better with ds but doesn't consist of ignoring bad behaviour.

Have you thought about a parenting course?

second post, to colditz and aloha, for example.
I can see what you mean, about it not be efective, if you don't do it at the time. I hear what you are saying and agree with you.

But what punishments are you actually suggesting ?
He doesn't do anything wrong as such. Just lots of little things that wear you down and by about mid afternoon oyu are starting to loose you patience.
Surely I am not the only one who this happens to - bad grammar - sorry about this.
But lots of whiney, no's, not doing as he is told, there isn't anything big in there., to warrant actaul a punishment.

What do you do ?

I saw Scottishthistle's post and thought, "Aha, that's me!"
That post shouldn't make you feel "really really hurt".

You seem TOTALLY confused about how to raise your son, as though there is a "technique" that you have failed to master. We are all totally confused but it's REALLY important not to let that get you down, otherwise you are in for 20 years of misery. Parenthood has no "answer" and you just have to muddle through and make sure that you are focusing on YOURSELF and not just your son. He will be a totally different person in a year or so's time and much more enjoyable to be with - although sometimes he will be unbearable as well.

Sometimes I really don't like my children AT ALL. It's okay to feel that way.

Don't feel crap about your parenting. I make loads of mistakes and I'm a total control freak and an utter bitch to my children sometimes. What I DO try and do is make sure that they both laugh once a day. That's all. Even if I've been a shouty cow all day, at least I know that they will have had a happy moment and I just try and remember that and forget all the rest of it.

mid-afternoon whiny no-stage = CBeebies

I think I may have to give pyschos post some more thought. I feel exhausted, and as she said I will get ripped to shreds by other posters, so I will have to give it some thought as to how I phrase it.

Oblomov, I'm sorry you took my post to heart as I wasn't suggesting that is what you were doing!

I was interested in what "old fashioned" ways of parenting were!

As a small child I don't remember anything but I do remember being screamed at later in life & we were scared enough to behave as next step was the belt!

I also don't quite understand why you keep going back to what your Mother did, can she not tell you how she disciplined you?

Children of three have wonderful senses of humour. MI posted me a great joke her three year old told her today. They are such funny, mad things as well as infuriating. I think sometimes larking with them is wonderful because it makes the hard bits all worthwhile. They can be so silly and gorgeous.
I feel very sad that you are so unhappy about all this. Time is whizzing by and this age will never come back. I have a book I just love. It is called Nanny Knows Best and is advice from a woman, Nanny Smith, now dead, who was a nanny from the 1930s onwards, so you can't accuse her of being 'modern' but I find her approach so refreshing it is almost shocking. I'll quote her on the subject of toddlers:

"As your child develops don't worry about whether somebody is pleased with him or not. Your role is to be positive rather than negative. To praise him as he attempts to do different thigs, to admire his persistence and his experiments, not to crush him by saying 'no!'. Children should be respected. Try to see their point of view before saying 'No' or getting angry. Once you have realised why they are doing something you may find you can understand and do not need to get angry but just simply distract them without a struggle. Once a child's cord is cut he is separate person and should be treated as one. Do not expect them to behave the way you want them to. Let them behave the way they want to, as long as it doesn't hurt others. Life, for them, is one big experiment and you should try to create an atmosphere in which they can be experimental. I sometimes feel parents are never happy with their children. They want them to be different, to develop quicker or in different directions from the way they are going. They compare them with other toddlers they see and feel disappointed. I think this is so sad. A child will have quite enough pressure on him later. From his home he needs love, security and praise. Only this way will he be able to shine. One of the fathers I worked for asked me every day wheteher his children had been 'good'. For years I always answered, 'They've been happy.' Good is what you would want a child to be. Happy is what they ought to be." I love that.

Sorry but all the little things that are wearing you down are perfectly normal, maybe you just need some time out?...Have a day to yourself on the weekend & let dh take over.

My name is...

... Nanny Smith!

What do I do? I try to distract? I try to make my children (five and two) laugh, I tell them jokes, we hunt down the naughty shoes and chase each other around. Sometimes I get all shouty and cross then feel like I've let myself down. I don't really do punishments. But I have lovely children! With whining, which drives me doolally, I often evoke Willy Whingebag, a really unpleasant character who I claim has suddenly appeared in my kitchen disguised as ds. I say, 'Oh no! I heard Willy Whingebag whinging! This is terrible? Where have you gone ds? Ds? Come back - help me deal with awful Willy Whingebag!'. This sometimes works! I also stoke ds up with food and drink. Distraction is a brilliant tool.