Ds (3.2) doesn't seem to enjoy family time - time with dh and mummy - what to do ?

[Oblomov]

This is a seriousy enquiry to you all. Hoping that any child pyschologists, or anyone with expreince, can provide with with a step-by-step-guide, or a good book to refer to.

From previous posts that you may have seen, that I am trying to re-create, atleast a lttle bit, the way I was bought up. I do of course realise that things have changed - e.g. my mum spent all her time raising me and my two older brothers. We only played with he girl next door, occassionally. We went to a playgroup once a week for an hour or so. My mum bought us up. That was the norm in those days.
Now, my ds is at nursery 1/2 the time. I have him at home with only me on a wed and fri.

There are lots of bits of his behaviour that we find unacceptable. We are trying to address this and change our parenting techniques.

But regarding this particular issue -
when he is with us, he doesn't seem to enjoy 'family time - i.e. with Me AND Dh. He plays up, more, than when he is with just the one of us. And he has ruined, just about every family outing we have had in the last year and half.
He likes one to one attention.

Mow, maybe nursery is not for him. Maybe he would be better off with a childminder.
But as far as hoome life is concerned, not only does this make me unhappy - because I used to LOVE sepnding time with my mum and dad: but I think it is UNHEALTHY.

I want to change it. How do I do this in a gentle, step-by-step way ?

He is whining and ungrateful because he is three, and he is probably playing up more when it's you and your dp because you are talking to each other and not just him, and he is used to being the centre of attention when it's just you and him.

this is no reflection on your parenting. You seem to feel that your mum is a hard act to follow, but that doesn't mean you aren't an excellant parent.

I don't think for one minute you are setting him up for failure, but I do think you are setting yourself up for failure.

You can't actually win, you know, you will never make him totally and utterly happy, contented and hang up free at the age of three, because sometimes they are spoiling for a fight to see what point they get you to completely lose your mind.

Kids don't like family days. It's a fact. Kids like soft play centres, and egg and chips with lemonade, and strawberry picking (for 5 minutes, until they are full) and gift shops (as long as you're buying)

they don't like

fossils
Anywhere in the zoo except monkeys and the petting zoo
Museums
healthy Walks

They are not daft and can smell 'worthy activities' (opposed to running around shouting pow pow) a mile off.

In that case continue with the withdrawal & eventually as time goes on he'll learn the consequences of his actions!

Well it clearly doesn't bother him enough - if he does it again, or more likely he is too young to stop his impulsive behaviour, which in the moment overwhelms his fear of upsetting you.

Either way, this all just sounds such a totally miserable crappy way to raise a child, and it is really starting to upset me.

Poor boy

No, I do follow through.

I tell him, if you do that agian, this willl happen and 99 times, me or dh DO DO IT.

And he hates it.

But then, he does it again.

Oh and 'looks' often doesn't work on 3 yo boys because they don't care. They know what you are going to do to them if they carry on playing up, but it's not enough to stop them doing what they want now.

So you want to be able to control his behaviour with 'the look'?

This can and does work for some parents and techers, and is based on fear, and will usually work for parents who have particuarly strong personalities and a particular relationship with their child. It may be a very diciplinarian relationship and a fear of the consequnces or a very loving realtionship where a fear of disaproval is enough.

It will also depend on the child, their personality and stage of development. Some children are easier to discipline than others. For some the fear of disapproval is enough to keep them in line, for others who are more implusive and motivated by other extrenal factors, this will not be the case.

Most 3yr old boys will fall into the latter category. A disapprovibg look will not be liely to impact much on thier behaviour.

What kind of things does he do which result in punishment then?

I have to say that with 3yr olds I pick my battles otherwise most of the day would seem like a war zone!

Yes, I was consistancy itself - and it wasn't enough. He had to grow up more before he could stop himself.

I do feel he is getting flack for not being you. I know about 20 children my son's age - none of them push their luck like he does - he is different. He has low impulse control. Maybe your son does too.

Don't go soapbox, please.
It does sound miserable , doesn't it.

I am unhappy. Dh is unhappy. And I do beleive that ds is unhappy too.

Which Is whyI am here, becasue I want to change, not expect him to, but I WABT to change my parenting techniques - if you can call them that !!!!

Oblomov, he is too young, in himself, to be responding to 'the look'

I am a very very strong willed pertson and all children respond to my look - except mine, because he is different. It's starting to work now, but he is 4 tomorrow. This time 6 months ago I was tearing my friggin hair out!

Damn, I need to type faster

By the time I've typed it's all been said.

Is anything said being helpful Oblomov?

Try to give us a very specific example of an outing where his behaviour was so unacceptable, the outing was ruined.

Describe his behaviour in as much detail as you can, and explain in equal detail what you did.

People will pick it to pieces, but in an attempt to help, take it as such, acknowledge what is helpful and explain why others suggestions aren't.

Psycho has a good point - he is only just starting to dislike my disapproval. before now, he didn't give a rat's ass what I thought.

I don't punish for one thing. I punish for.... like all day / all morning behaviour. If I ask him to do something, and he won't. Followed by not eating properly, followed by... then he does something and I say, this is not acceptable, you didn't do as you were told.... lets do this, o.k. and then he won't put his shoes on and I say , you have to, beacuse we are going out, and then he shouts, no I won't, and then I say, this is not acceptable, don't shout and me its not nice to be shouted at, if you carry on,,,there will be no.... cbeebies today.

Is that a true reflection of how I do it ?
Not sure. But I do do that I suppose, quite a bit.

I am at work guys. Naughty me.
I really apppreciate all posts, and thank you pyscho, I will post tonight, giving you an example.

Oblomov the problem with that approach is that most children will behave unacceptably in a day at least once or twice so I'd find it difficult to establish exactly how many times he has to get your goat to warrant no cbeebies, if you see what I mean.

I tend to punish for unacceptable behaviour at the time, not later when the child has forgotten about it.

Try asking differently. ie OK, now, Park time! Shoes on and front door please! Then get the shoes and look expectant. Sometimes he'll say 'no' - so why would that be? Maybe he's watching a video, so have you given enough warning that the video is ending? Maybe he wants to bring something with him. There is usually a reason, but sometimes, because he is only three, maybe there isn't.
I don't know what 'not eating properly is' tbh.
I think you talk at him too much tbh! I personaly find being a bit brisk and jolly is a better approach. Tickling or chasing can sometimes break an impasse. Or making it a game: "I bet you can't get on that seat before I count to three!" "I can't find your shoes? Where can they be? Can you find the naughty shoes?"

And are days often like this, with a series of refusals,confrontations and threats?

That is not supposed to sound critical, I have days like that, but just trying to see if that is an established pattern.

If so it can be very wearing, very hard to see objectivly and to break out of.

Try not to be so hard on yourself. I'm all for thre 'good enough' parenting and I'm sure you're that.

And yes, you can't expect no little lapses in a day. He's human, apart from being three!
I really, really, really recommend The Social Toddler. The main case study in the book really, really reminds me of your situation.

oops - too many 'really's there!

And it is confusing for small children to be suddenly punished for something quite minor - they don't understand the last straw concept at all.

I should be working too Oblomov.

I'll check back later.

Oblomov,

I haven't read the rest of the posts - so sorry if I am repeating what others have said - and it does sound like you are having a tough time of it.

It sounds like you had a wonderful childhood and that your mother was a great Mum to you - and I can relate because my Mum was a very good Mother when I was a child and I can only hope that my own ds feels as happy and secure as I did growing up.

I wonder, though, if it is unrealistic to expect that you can recreate your own happy memories with your ds - could it be that your ds senses that you have expectations that he is simply unable to meet, either because he doesn't really know what they are (he wasn't there during your childhood, so he can't possibly understand your background) or because he is a completely different character (and gender) to the child that you were and therefore needs a completely different type of approach.

If this is the case I think the most important thing to think about it what kind of family you are and play to your strengths,rather than aim for an idealised idea of your own childhood.

I also think that it is very important if you and your dh are unhappy to address that - taking your ds completely out of the equation - it cannot possibly be a three year old's responsibility to create happiness on for his parents, as I am sure that you know.

My husband and I have expectations (and baggage) that we bring to our own parenting which sometimes gets in the way of understanding who were are and who our family is. It is really important for us that we look honestly at ourselves, our own limitations and our own hopes and discuss these things periodically. Our own parents, as great as they were, were functioning in a completely different time and world, and to try to replicate that is impossible without a time machine!

I hope that some of this makes sense to you - I am not an expert, just a parent of a usually happy, but radically different from me as a child, ds. Best wishes to you.

Do you make things fun as Aloha has said, racing to get shoes on - setting a timer - say things with a smile - give choices - give warnings before doing things & give plenty time for him to do said task?

I find too many people choose to fight with children over rather petty things to be honest & it's really not worth it in my experience.

The problem is - he's forgotten what he did wrong to warrent the punishment later. he may be able to tell you, but the concept has flown.

To him, when you enforce that punishment, he's being punished for nothing. That's why he's whiny when you're out - a punishment later means nothing to him, so is inaffective.

He may feel that he can't please you, so isn't going to put himself out to try.

I think you are right in your instinct that the pasta jar won't work with your child (yet) but for that same reason, neither will threats of punishments later. He isn't old enough, and doesn't physically or neurologically possess enough self control for them to work. Essentially, he's being punished for being 3. (and I do know that sometimes 'being three' behavior is awful to deal with)