Have I just accidentally insulted another mum?

[LowFatMilkshake]

We have new neighbours with a little boy(4) who is in DD(3)'s group at pre-school. I have started chatting to the mum and we had them over today for a playdate. They had one first at their house.

I find her little boy quite precoscious(sp) dominating of his mum, always butting in with "excuse me" and when he doesnt get his own way "mummy dont ignore me" (she was'nt she just wanted him to cross the road at the crossing not near the sweet shop).

Anyway today they had been watching TV for about 10 minutes when they decided to go back into the garden. I said I would turn the TV off and DD said "no mummy" to which I replied - maybe you can have it on later. She agreed and went outside. His mum remarked on how well DD had taken my 'instruction' (for want of a better word). But I did'nt think anything of it - it's just normal behavour in our house. DD made a point I made mine we agreed and that's that. But she questioned it further so I said to the other mum I was pretty strict with DD and dont tolerate misbehaviour at home as I am mortified when DD misbehaves when we are out so set good rules for everywhere - to the point where some of my friends threaten to leave their DC's with me when they are naughty . Then I wondered if by saying this I had insinutated that she was too leniant on her DS?? Especially after her DS's behaviour at our house.

Dont get me wrong DD can be a monkey and is no angel, but while he was here he sat on my sofa picking his nose. He climed over a sleeping baby DS to get at the cat, knocking over hot tea on himself, DS changing bag and the sofa, not to mention falling on DS. He demanded a new top, which I got for him (luckily DD has some unisex t'shirts). Then when they both went in the garden got wet socks he demanded dry ones - again DD has white sports socks which I provided. I gave him crisps and a drink and he asked for more. And not once unless prompted by his mum did I get a please or thankyou. And she did'nt seem overly bothered by his behaviour.

I really like his mum, but I hate to see parents being bossed around by children and following this behaviour am dreading the next time they come round. What makes it worse is he and DD play together at pre-school and I can hear his speech coming out in her with "excuse me" and "actually" and "I'll just do XXX" and worst of all "mum" - she is 3 and I want to be mummy for at least another year or so it's driving me nuts!

Am I a boot camp mum who has insulted a new friend or would you find some of his behaviour unacceptable.

Message withdrawn

Gosh he sounds like my ds, very like my ds

I had to read it twice to make sure you were not talking about us actually

I think my little boy is pretty well behaved all things considered - but I know his behaviour sometimes annoys other adults.

I sort of expect them to rise above it, though

they are the adults, after all...

read it again

LOLOL at "actually" which ds and I both use constantly

gosh isn't it ANNOYING when children have their own opinions and actually have the nerve to communicate them to you

My boys like to colour enid- just of the furniture

Ds1 (7 severely autustic) now fetches the ladder out of the cellar to climb. ds2 is a scardey custard and wouldn't climb past one run, ds3 (2- no fear at all) tries to shove ds1 out the way to get past.

Different genders, different kids, and what custy said too. DS3 who is probably one of the stroppiest 2 year olds I have met, is a nightmare to tell off in public- because no matter how I do it he will throw himself on the floor and scream. At home it doesn't matter, I just walk off and leave him to scream, but I can't do that in public so I pick my battles carefully (if its important I'll stick to it, but htings like changing socks etc I probably wouldn't bother to battle over).

Fio- it's not your ds being a boy- it's the name! Dangrous name (if ds3 is anything to go by- bit of a pattern....)

I can't speak for anyone else LowFatMilkShake but I think AFIAK you hit a raw nerve. I have two DSs (the youngest is currently 4), they are both very boisterous, more so DS1 at 4 and I have been in this sort of situation many times when, despite being IMO strict, they have become over excited at someone's house/in company with friends and have displayed behaviour similar to the boy that visited you. I have on the odd occasion been really quite hurt by other Mum's comments, particularly when DS1 was little as he was a real handful.

My 3yo charge loves the word actually & so do I actually!

My dd (3) is fairly well behaved and I think I am quite strict but it is difficult to be as strict out with the home. Although I think I am I do cringe at myself when other people are about.

She can be quite loud and bossy though and although I tell her off for interrupting I do sometimes think it is just the way she is, I am quite loud and bossy myself!

I don't know why 'actually' is quite so bad. I say it a lot! I took dd to visit her auntie who works in a pub and her auntie came outside as I told her 'you're actually not allowed in the pub'. Of course she told her auntie 'I'm not actually allowed in the pub' and we thought it was hugely amusing!

He seems completely normal to me. If you are so good at getting your DD to do exactly what you tell her to, you must be able to stop her calling you "mum" too? Seems to me you have started to blame this little boy for your DD saying "actually" and "excuse me". Sounds like you need to chill out. My DD was very well behaved with excellent manners around this age, but it all went downhill from around the age of 5. Like others say, it's not just parenting, but the child too. And little children need to rebel and boss their parents around a little. It's healthy and doesn't mean they become ASBO-teens!

Ok ? thinking your dd?s behaviour is entirely down to how you parent is A, smug and B, going to bite you in the bum. Quite soon by the sounds of it (congrats on the new baby btw) guess what? Children are individuals, with different characteristics, natures and behaviours. You will find out soon enough?

And you are utterly judgemental about this boy and the relationship with his mother, and harshly so too. If she happens to feel that she is happy to attend to her sons wants/needs at her own cost at this time in his life ? and not necessarily later in his life, he is only 4 - then that is entirely up to her. Maybe she believes she is building up trust in their relationship as a foundation for the future? And who is anyone to say whether she is right or wrong?

It does sound like his tone is a bit on the rude side, that he expects his mother to take care of his whims? but maybe she plans to shape that as he grows? And maybe she is accepting that in front of you as shed rather not make a scene in someone elses home? And maybe she is leeting it go for the same reaon Pruni talks about? all very valid reasons, no?

If it is a reflection of negative attitudes to women from his father? if she is v subservient to him too? then I would also be uneasy with that too. But I think youre making a hell of a leap in assuming that?s whats going on.

To be fair, I also know a child who I find it difficult to be around for the exact same reason, except ive known him for much longer? but I appreciate that his challenging behaviour and my reaction to it is as much if not WAY more my issue than his. After all, who is the adult here?

And by judging and jumping to conclusions, what kind of an example for behaviour are you setting for your dc?

Also ? (and now im judging you here) I think you are WAY too protective of your dc and that you ought to do some reading about how children need risk in their lives in order to develop judgement and manage greater risks which will occur in their lives as they grow. Is actually a human need it is dangerous to deny them.

wow lots of views on this. Nature vs nurture - children are very different even with the same parenting. As they grow up they change their behaviour although the parents stay much the same.

Reading this, I think that DS and DD may not be entirely typical of their gender - DS is much more likely to play "quietly" than boisterous DD. She is also much more capable of turning a tidy room into a messy room in 14 nanoseconds.

DS is 3.4, DD is 18 months. And DS and I use the word actually a lot .

its a bit of a side point, but i do think all this 'boys are one way, gorls are another' crap is, um, just that really.

can we not think of our dc as individuals please??

Mine are definitely individuals .

I have been thinking about this this afternoon as I am afraid you have hit a bit of a nerve with me too - I don't think your post is primarily because you were worried about upsetting this other mother, it was because you disapprove of her parenting practices and of her son's behaviour, and wanted a good old tut at them both.

This is not entirely unreasonable behaviour of course, but I think to make out that you were mostly bothered about having offended her, was disingenous to say the least.

I agree with FrannyandZooey. The Holy Grail of comparative parenting is a Parent Who Is Really Clearly Doing It Wrong . We all like finding one of those, if we're honest - not the ones who are so wildly wrong they're off the scale and no one would agree with, but the ones who are a bit like us, and think they're doing it right, but are really Doing It Wrong. Social niceties prevent us from then telling them how wrong they are to their face - secondbest but still fun is talking about them to other people, aka having a "good old tut"!

Unfortunately despite having apparently found this Holy Grail we're all secretly rather fond of, you ended up being the same Holy Grail for a few people who felt you'd wrongly assessed this boy's behaviour and wrongly blamed it entirely on bad parenting. Bad luck really!

RIght I would like to reword my OP after reading all comments and taking evryone's opinion in to account - as I want DD and LB to be friends - it stands to reason to build bridges not bobby trap driveways after all they could be walking to school together, playing at the park etc. as they grow up.

So: "LB came to play yesterday and did a few things I found shocking, his mum seemed comfortable by his behaviour, but commented on how well my DD took instructions from me. After I explained I am quite strict I worried I had offended her by insinutation she was'nt."

FWIW I now appreciate his behaviour may be because he is readjustng to a new house, new schedule, new pre-school etc.

But with regards to climbing a blardy loft ladder I do not relent. DD is a climber, she jumps from the 7th stair in out house and is constandly climbing and dancing on the patio furniture and anything else she can get at. But the drop is over 2 floors I draw the line. PS I work in Safety so am quite atuned to potential accidents!

Afew thoughts...boys and girls are different, not all boys and not all girls obviously, but I really think they have different characteristics. My two older ones(5 & 3) love to climb, jump, run. they are like puppies, they need a good runaround.

Although Enid they also love to colour since DS1 started school...so fantastic...a sitting down activity!

The ladder incident was like reading something that's happened here. And ours play outside obviously supervised. You can't say no to everything which it would feel like when they love doing this stuff! It sounds like your DD is happy to be led in her play and that suits you, but I think it's good to let them take the lead while you make sure it's safe.

DD is quite independant in her play, she is not led, sometimes she joins in sometimes she does things herself, I dont even think that is an issue here -

But I cannot believe how many people think it is acceptable to let thier child climb a loft ladder over stairs whether the parent is a few rungs or not. All it takes is for the parent to loose their balance and you have a potential tragedy! In fact the more I think about this the angrier I am getting! I think it's irresponsible. If the ladder was'nt over stairs it would be another matter!

BTW I am with you on the loft ladder thing. I am terrified of heights and would have found that unbearable to watch.

Oh, I love Mumsnet!!!!

I've found some women who understand. Children all behave differently. Parents all parent differently. It would be a very boring world if we all behaved the same and therefore all turned out the same.

I really really hope your next child is a boy.

I have already posted but would like to add that I do empathise with LowFatMilkshake.

Neither of my 2 were that curious about climbing and then DD1 had a bad accident/fall in the garden when she was 5 and spent the next 2 years in and out of hospital, and now has a permanent mobility problem in her arm plus a 9'' scar from the 4 operations she had. I never thought this would happen, from simple play in the garden and since then I am probably over cautious compared to other parents. Sleepless nights, lots of tears and a little girl who shouldn't have had to go through all that.

Children have very little fear, it is something that we all learn through experience. Lets say that we have different views and stop giving LowFatMilkshake a hard time about this.