Do you really care how another baby is fed? (Ff/bf)

[justonesherryformedicinalpurpo]

I breastfed my first and I am now breastfeeding my second.

I have never been made to feel uncomfortable while feeding in public. And I have NEVER looked at a woman ff her baby and given a shit. I just think "aw another baby". But I must admit that if I am talking about bf or if I am bf around a ff mother I fear that I may make her feel like I think I am better than her. And that's just crap. I just can't believe, still, that there is judgement on how a baby is fed.

I would just love to know, honestly, if you actually care how other babies are fed.

There is so much judgement and a lot of publicity on it now that some of it must come from other mothers.

If you think you are better for bf be honest. If you think you are being judged for ff be honest.

My friend recently commented on how another mother quit breastfeeding very early on and she was shocked and disappointed etc. And I said "there is enough judgement without needing to add to it. There is also someone there to judge you. You could be judged for combination feeding from a few weeks old. I could be judged for not bf my first past 10 months, what has it got to do with anyone else".

I don't mean to start a war here. I just want people to be honest if they do judge and why. Afterall we don't know one another and we may become less judgy after this.

Nope really doesn't worry me . Just be happy .

"Is the child healthy"

Fast forward to later childhood and some - in some areas many - children are weaned onto a really poor solids diet. I can guarantee you could not identify these children on the basis of their health records. My nephew for example eats NO fruit and NO vegetables. At all. At 12 he's slimmer and fitter and gets fewer illnesses than my 13 year old DS who eats fruit and veg every day. Does that mean we should say 'it doesn't matter if the majority of UK kids aren't eating anything remotely like the recommended amount of fruit and veg, and we should stop worrying about it? That if you can't see and measure the difference at an individual level then there IS no difference?

People on mumsnet seem to apply a completely different and very flawed logic when talking about child health and infant feeding than they do about any other aspect of parenting, including later nutrition.

I don't actually believe BF is always better for the baby. I know plenty of women who BF but have very low vitamin D levels and iron levels, and do not supplement the babies either.

How do you know? Unless you blood test all of these bf women there's no way to tell...

No to the original question I'm but continually sickened by the behaviour of the formula companies which operate in the developing world. They have blood in their hands no doubt. It's very depressing that feeding babies has become corrupted like this.

Nope, I don't care. I BF with relative ease. DS latched immediately and was quite tenacious. My Dsis really struggled with it. So DM (who bf'd all of us) popped out, bought bottles and made up formula. Result: a well fed baby and a mother who wasn't in tears. Happiness all round.

The only thing I judge is women breaking themselves to bf or exclusively pump - fair enough if it comes relatively easily but I don't think it's important enough to ruin the first 6 months when there's a great alternative.

It is of course the mums choice and I'd never be unsupportive... I'd just be thinking why?!?

I do care but wish I didn't. It's not really much of my business.

I'll probably get slated for this but you asked and so I will be honest.

I see babies being ff and I think
My friend had her 3rd baby last week and she is ff. She would just NOT try bfing even though her dh wanted her to. Baby is 4 days old and has a dummy already. This bothers me too. There is surely no need (baby is not ill at all). She could have tried bfing. She could have done it in private if she is too self conscious about it- which would be half the problem. The other half is that she is rather selfish and would not want to give much of her life up to have a baby! She and dh are doing a night feed each, so obv she can have some sleep too- that's great, I would have loved that but I absolutely would not ff just so I could get my sleep. Her middle child has awful exzema- arms, legs and around his eyes, and her eldest has other health issues. If only she would just have tried, she could have made a difference to try but there's a chance that she's left him open to similar health issues here. Not neccessarily, but there's a chance. That bothers me- when there is a complete choice, and evidence that it would be wise to try bfing.

And for this reason I would really struggle to be a midwife!

I have another friend with similar views re ffing- her daughter didn't have a free month of antibiotics before she was 10. She'd had 17 courses before she began school. It bothers me. It upsets me that some Mums put their own choices first when it is to the detriment of their own kids.

It's similar to feeding babies jars of prepared food- always. Not bothering to make your own chicken stock ad a batch of salt free soup, stew, risotto, it's not difficult. It just takes a bit of time- but clearly some parents don't want to, can't be arsed, they would rather be doing other things.

I understand and appreciate there are lots of reasons- and for this I am incredibly glad I was able to bf. It wasn't easy, I struggled, I had mastitis, difficulty latching on, it hurt a lot but I was bloody determined. I bf for 14m, 11m (self weaned- I struggled with this) and 3rd baby self weaned at 8m, she was having none of it, and so I was quite upset that I couldn't get to a year and had to supplement her with formula. This went right against the grain for me as I gave her the best diet I could otherwise, but I thought 8m was too young not to. She used a cup though so that was one less problem. So, I did not find bfing easy, but there again neither was much else of parenting babies and small children- it is hard work! It was ever going to be easy.

I understand it's a personal choice but it upsets me that some people make the decision very easily but not in the best interests of their child.

I never speak my mind. I have never made a comment to anyone about it- but have had discussions with my friends and they know my views. I understand it is not my business. But I cannot help having an opinion. Just like everything else- piercing ears, buying kids fruit shoots, or iphones at the age of 9.

I feel heartbreaking sympathy with Mums who wanted to bf but couldn't- I have no idea how I would have dealt with that. I understand there are lots of reasons for ffing and this is why I never voice my opinion- we have no idea what's going on in other people's lives.

Scared now

"The only thing I judge is women breaking themselves to bf or exclusively pump - fair enough if it comes relatively easily but I don't think it's important enough to ruin the first 6 months when there's a great alternative."

If a baby was really doing badly on formula milk would you advise the mother to relactate? Or ask her why she was trying to formula feed when she had a free and better alternative? Would you judge her for not wanting to breastfeed?

Some of us will go to great lengths to breastfeed because breastfeeding is important to us, even if it's hard. Only women themselves can judge how far it's OK to go when they are struggling.

And note: it's ok to not want to give your baby formula, not not think it's a 'great' product. I wouldn't want to feed it to my babies - it smells unpleasant and it's not fresh food. I can't imagine any situation where I would voluntarily feed my kids exclusively on a diet of freeze dried, reconstituted processed food, when there was an alternative of fresh human milk. You can do what you like but I resent being told what I should think and feel about what in the end is a commercial product, and not the golden fucking tears of Jesus.

I totally agree, mini. Why would anyone choose formula?? This is what upsets me.

Bramblina - are you genuinely upset about a choice I've made for my baby?

Nope. Don't really pay attention. It's the choice of outfits I'm observing. I'm baffled at what some people dress their babies in.

Really pleased with the outcome of this thread and I hope it has helped some mothers who may judge without knowing personal background not to judge and especially to the ff mums that may feel they are being judged as it seems the majority couldn't care less!

I do understand why some are saddened about the continuing increase of ff in many areas and agree this is down to lack of support, from professionals AND close friends and family.

DD1s weight slowed down after 12 weeks which is common for bf babies but my HV made me feel like she wasn't getting enough and expected me to keep taking her every couple of weeks. And so did my mum who never bf any of us. DD was absolutely fine and if it wasn't for DP and Mumsnet I might have stopped ebf! I also stopped going every 2 weeks!

I do also agree that sometimes certain problems could have been eased if a mother had only bf. Such as colic (the trapped wind type) because I used to see a lot of babies suffering from this at baby groups. This is not the answer or case for ALL babies of course!

So all in, yea bf should be encouraged a hell of a lot more, but not just my midwives and professionals. But that is another subject.

I am just happy that fellow mothers aren't as judgy as what some may fear.

Have a pleasant day all!

I agree with everything you've said justone but availability of support isn't the only answer. There was a lot of support available to me but it didn't help.

For me the answer would probably have been more willingness to perform c sections so it didn't take 45 hours of labour before I had one, meaning that I was awake from Wednesday morning to the early hours of Sunday morning. After that and the shock and the trauma I could no more have learned a new skill than learned to fly. About 4 days after I gave birth the nurse asked me to lie my baby on his side. I couldn't because I couldn't work out what 'side' meant. Even by the time I went into labour I hadn't had a full night's sleep since I was 5 weeks pregnant (vomiting several times a night until about 26 weeks and then just being pregnant and massive).

And oddly, I would try to BF this one (PG again) if less of a deal was made about it. But I can't try and fail again. I can't deal with the disappointment.

And being selfish? Yes, maybe. But given that being pregnant and giving birth was/is a year of feeling horrific and/or in pain I don't care. I haven't seen any friends since December. I will enjoy going out for (one) night out when my baby is a couple of months old.

im sorry this was so long but I've found writing it really cathartic.

Seems like some people are very judgey here

My twins have been exclusively FF from 6 weeks. My big regret is that I did not insist on bottle feeding straight away when they were 5 days old and had lost too much weight. Instead they were admitted to hospital and had feeding tubes forced down their noses which remained there over a week. As the hospital are not allowed to 'promote' bottle feeding, nasal feeding was presented as our only option. It wasn't til a week later when I was less upset and confused that I questioned this and insisted on bottle feeding. But I will always feel guilty that I didn't stand up for my babies straight away and allowed them to be put through all that unnecessary intervention when they were tiny and premature. They were never going to latch and I wish someone had just told me that sometimes FF is best for babies

Bramblina... wait for the flaming!

I think it's harsh to blame some of those things on formula feeding. I breast feed and my son has eczema. He also has reoccurring thrush that he probably wouldn't have if he was ff (we keep infecting each other I matter how hard I try to eradicate it).

People don't even try bf for some very good reasons that may not necessarily be physical. I guess it's ok to mentally judge... you can think what you like... but def not cool to say anything or telegraph anything to the mums in question. You really aren't in full possession of the facts and unless you in their shoes you truly cannot understand why they have made the decisions they have... regardless of their stated reasons.

I breastfed both mine in fact still breastfeeding my almost fourteen month old, pregnant again and still loving doing it. She doesn't want to stop and why should she. I love sitting down and snuggling with her it's very special to always at 5 am though.

I think - psychological, medical or clinical reasons aside - it's a huge shame that more women don't try breastfeeding especially for the colostrum, as breastmilk is a marvellous thing, but I would never judge a formula feeding mother.

There isn't enough support and there isn't enough honesty. Breastfeeding is hard work and I wanted to stop at times but am bloody indeed and ploughed on. So glad I did though.

It does annoy me when people poo poo the properties of breastmilk and the benefits. How breastmilk adapts in different climates and how it changes its structure to help a sick baby when their backwash transmits messages through breastfeeding. It is amazing stuff.

Interestingly, on the subject of breastfeeding causing postpartum depression, I'm sure I read recently that the risk was highest in the first eight weeks and then actually dropped dramatically, this would take,lay with the enormous struggles and fear of potential failure that any mums new to breastfeeding experience.

Thanks for you honesty, bramblina. I'm sorry you had a difficult time of it.

Nope. Couldn't give a shiny shit how another person is feeding their baby, as long as they are feeding it.

I understand it's a personal choice but it upsets me that some people make the decision very easily but not in the best interests of their child.

I think that most people don't make the decision 'very easily' and most are taking a holistic view of the best interests of their child. Obviously some do make the decision easily, but you're unlikely to get a full explanation from most women you see FF as they wouldn't choose to share the story with anyone they aren't close to you. So what might seem like a glib explanation is probably incomplete.

This is clearly a very emotive issue. My dd is 10 weeks and has been ff from day 2. It was my initial intention to bf however my lo wouldn't latch on, I expressed initially. After her birth I suffered with some extreme bouts of anxiety and the feeding was a major factor in all this to the point where even expressing made me feel physically sick. Started her on formula and the anxiety started to subside - I knew she was fed, that I was capable of feeding her. We had a tough first few weeks (if I'm honest the worst days of my life) but fast forward to today and I have a happy, healthy, gorgeous little girl and I'm enjoying every minute of being with her. The guilt I feel for not persevering with the breastfeeding is deep rooted. All of the other mums I have come across at groups etc are breastfeeding and yes lots of them persevered through the tough early days to get to where they are. And yes I could have done more, sought extra support and made myself physically ill to continue. It sometimes feels like a club we aren't invited to and yes I've heard negative comments whilst feeding my dd her bottle while everyone else is breastfeeding their babies. TBH reading some of the comments on here has made me cry - knowing that people are judging me and assuming that I've gone for the easy option so I don't have to do all the night feeds, have compromised her health etc just makes me feel ten times worse. I have done every single night feed since she was born and in fact every single feed bar two from my DH and my mum which was purely as I had to go to a funeral. My daughters health is of the utmost importance to me and she will be prepared fresh healthy food when she is on solids. Honestly it's sometimes enough to make me feel like withdrawing from the baby groups etc but I would hate for dd to miss out to spare my feelings!! I would never judge a mum for the way they choose to feed their child be that bottle or breast and it saddens me that other people feel the way they do. I look back on those early days with regrets that I didn't try harder but honestly, we survived and we are here to tell the tale. Actually feel better for getting that off my chest

Brambelina it depends what is meant by "the best interests of the child", it won't always be in every child's best interests to be BF you do realise that don't you?
Oh and dummies can help protect against SIDS did you know that?

Don't be so presumptuous to think you know what's best for other people's children.

Fed is best, however it works. No idea how mums manage the early unpredictable days with FF - having to wake up properly to make up a feed, actually remember to take the formula out with them for every little trip. When DD was tiny I was lucky my head was attached because I would not have trusted myself to remember that if not - so in the early haze BF (which was easy for me) strikes me as easier to deal with.

I have the utmost respect for those who express other than as occasional opportunities to escape - faff and paraphernalia galore - obviously those mums are more organised than me!

If a baby was really doing badly on formula milk would you advise the mother to relactate?

No, I wouldn't advise any mother on how to feed their baby. I haven't got a clue about relactating and would only suggest that they see a GP.

Or ask her why she was trying to formula feed when she had a free and better alternative?

No. I'd presume that she had her reasons, whatever they may be.

Would you judge her for not wanting to breastfeed?

No. That's her choice.

Some of us will go to great lengths to breastfeed because breastfeeding is important to us, even if it's hard. Only women themselves can judge how far it's OK to go when they are struggling.

Good for you. I'm comfortable in my view that sometimes, it isn't worth it. As I said, I wouldn't communicate it, as it isn't helpful, but I would think it.

And note: it's ok to not want to give your baby formula, not not think it's a 'great' product. I wouldn't want to feed it to my babies - it smells unpleasant and it's not fresh food. I can't imagine any situation where I would voluntarily feed my kids exclusively on a diet of freeze dried, reconstituted processed food, when there was an alternative of fresh human milk. You can do what you like but I resent being told what I should think and feel about what in the end is a commercial product, and not the golden fucking tears of Jesus.

You can do what you like, but BM is just milk and not the golden fucking tears of Jesus.

It's a primary nutrition source for 6-12 months and the food for the following 90 years has more of an impact.

bramblina what is wrong with a dummy? Sucking is soothing for babies and actually reduces the risk of SIDS. There isn't anything wrong with giving a dummy, why do you object to it?

I bf both my DC but don't care how other people feed their infants. When I see a ff mum, I think.... nothing. I'll take a peek at the baby, I find little newborns fascinating, but the bottle doesn't register.
There was only one situation where I felt the fact ff was important : there was only one ff mum at a baby group I went to with DS1. I saw her ff and wondered how she felt about it amongst all those bf mums. I still didn't go so far as to feel sorry for her though because for all I knew, she might have been happy with her choice.

I do think bf is a bit overrated in developed countries tbh - the reductions in infections and allergies are very small. A lot of emphasis is put on that aspect. I think the fact that's it's environmentally friendly and much cheaper than formula is actually much more relevant.