Do you really care how another baby is fed? (Ff/bf)

[justonesherryformedicinalpurpo]

I breastfed my first and I am now breastfeeding my second.

I have never been made to feel uncomfortable while feeding in public. And I have NEVER looked at a woman ff her baby and given a shit. I just think "aw another baby". But I must admit that if I am talking about bf or if I am bf around a ff mother I fear that I may make her feel like I think I am better than her. And that's just crap. I just can't believe, still, that there is judgement on how a baby is fed.

I would just love to know, honestly, if you actually care how other babies are fed.

There is so much judgement and a lot of publicity on it now that some of it must come from other mothers.

If you think you are better for bf be honest. If you think you are being judged for ff be honest.

My friend recently commented on how another mother quit breastfeeding very early on and she was shocked and disappointed etc. And I said "there is enough judgement without needing to add to it. There is also someone there to judge you. You could be judged for combination feeding from a few weeks old. I could be judged for not bf my first past 10 months, what has it got to do with anyone else".

I don't mean to start a war here. I just want people to be honest if they do judge and why. Afterall we don't know one another and we may become less judgy after this.

I don't judge either way, but for the first few months after my son was born I got upset when I saw mothers BF. I hope I hid it. I always thought I would BF. Everyone (all family, everyone in NCT class) around me did but then I had a difficult birth and i was too exhausted. I did feel left out.

I did have a couple of comments from HCPs. And it annoyed me when I had my booking appointment for this pregnancy and she asked me whether I BF my first and I said no, she said 'but you are going to with this one aren't you?'. I said something non committal although the answer is definitely no.

I chose to exclusively formula feed as I just knew I didn't want to even try breastfeeding.
I honestly have no opinion on how any other baby is fed. I would never judge anyone on how they chose to feed their baby. I'd just think 'they are clearly doing what is best for them'.
However I have felt judged for not even trying to bf by others, especially professionals. Luckily the midwife and student in the birth centre were extremely supportive of my decision, however the midwives I saw during my pregnancy were very judgey

I'm much more interested in the mother receiving accurate information, timely and practical support and being shored up in her confidence as a new mother. These are the things that will impact her child's life far.more than bf Vs ff.

It saddens me that women say they've failed at bf, when often they have been failed by HCPs.

What no one tells women is that breastfeeding isn't easy and it isn't supposed to just click. It took me 6-10 weeks and they were weeks of utter hell. Mastitis and bleeding nipples.
The only reason I persisted was I was looked after by family and had bought better to do. Without so much support I could not have done it.

I ff my DC's - planned on doing so throughout pregnancy. Never had any intention of bf. DH is a GP but left it up to me to decide as if I'd bf it would have been solely my time involved. Ff worked well for us - DH enjoyed doing feeds as well as me.
I was not in the least interested in how others fed their DC's and wasn't concerned as to whether anyone thought I was doing the right thing or not. DC's grew up healthy and I was happy with the choices made.

I was a bit more on my high horse when I BF first but then stopped after about 4 months.. now don't really care with #2.

Don't care. Boob or bottle. Up to them.

I still bf my toddler but only because she likes it and I can.

Unless they're putting sunny d in a bottle for what looked like a 6 month old, which I saw once!

At an individual level - no.

At a population level - yes.

It's wrong that the majority of infants in the UK get a suboptimal diet which (at a population level) results in more hospital admissions, more GP appointments, more cases of breast cancer among women, more SIDS deaths, and more deaths and serious illness from NEC.

It's particularly bothersome to me that huge commercial interests have a large investment and a large role in seeing that as few UK babies possible get an optimal diet.

The debate has always confused me a bit because I don't personally know anyone who has received negative comments for either way. The only raging arguments I ever seem to see are on Facebook comments or forums. If I'm out with friends or family and someone breastfeeds, noone I know would notice or comment. I am just a bit baffled as to why people take such interest in a stranger's life choice.

I breastfed for three days in hospital, I was in agony from a long labour and emergency section. The nurses suggested some easier holds but everything was painful so I stopped. I wish I'd persevered a bit more at home but I had got to grips with formula then and just got used to that being our norm by then. I liked that my husband and parents could easily feed her too. A friend of mine struggled with herself for 2 months because she was failing at breastfeeding. I was not prepared to put that much pressure on myself when I knew my baby could feed perfectly fine from a bottle.

Would add that I think breastfeeding my own DC's gave them a better quality of life than had they been formula fed. I think the fact that breastfeeding is about much more than the milk itself is routinely overlooked in feeding discussions. In addition to feeding from hunger, a baby breastfeeds for comfort, because he or she feels unwell, to reconnect with their mum after time apart or to go to sleep. I think it gives babies a more pleasurable life experience than bottlefeeding which is primarily adult led and however responsively done, fundamentally about milk transfer.

I would care if the ff mum had wanted to be and didn't get the support to do it. That's a real shame for mum and baby.

Yeah I care, I guess how much I care is like a 1 or 2 on a max 10 scale. There but low.
Seeing a child that should be in carseat not carseat, that could be a 5/10.
Verbally abusing your kid -> 6-7/10. Etc.

I often wonder when I see a woman FF if she wanted to FF or if that's just what she got stuck doing. Would be nicer if more people could be sure to get what they want.

I agree with @polarbeargoingsomewhere I wouldn't judge an individual for FF but I do think it's a shame that more people don't try to BF and that the rates of mothers choosing to BF are so low. However the support for breastfeeding is shockingly poor in my experience and of course that puts people off even trying. I feel pretty proud of myself for persevering through the difficult first few weeks of hand expressing and syringe feeding to try and do the best I could for my dd, many people made the assumption that because I'm a younger mother I wouldn't bother to try so that I could 'get my life back' sooner. I've never witnessed any judgement in real life for either side but online of course people feel they can say whatever they like and don't seem to care about hurting people's feelings.

Yup, I care because aboutt 80% of my friends who FF only resorted to it after being let down by shit post natal support and were gutted to "have" to FF.

So I care that women who WANT to breastfeeding, are finding they "can't" when in most cases its because the help/support was too little to late (like tongue ties not being corrected for weeks etc)

Most of the health benefits disappear when you control for class. Honestly.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/24/class-baby-breastfed-life-chances-inequality

As far as I can tell, the advantages of bfing are:
Cheaper
Helps you lose baby weight
Easy way to comfort a distressed baby
You can do it one-handed, so can read/faff around on your phone at the same time
You've never caught out and about with no food for the baby
You don't have to faff around sterilising bottles
There's sleep hormone in breast milk, so helps babies sleep. (But then there's probably sleep hormone in the cows milk in formula too).
Milk is calibrated to have the right amount of water for the temperature and it's much harder (though not impossible) to overfeed a breastfed baby
You won't give a baby gastroenteritis by incorrectly cleaning the bottles
Although all the formula feeders I know feed their baby by cuddling him or her close to them, there are some mothers who don't - which makes bonding harder. (I don't believe for a moment that just sucking a tit rather than a teat makes the slightest difference to bonding.)
Good excuse to eat lots of cake

On the other hand, formula feeding has loads of advantages too:
It's quicker and less painful and exhausting
You can continue to take lots of medications that you can't take while breastfeeding
It's much easier to leave the baby - which means you have to give up fewer things - which makes you happier - which is much, much better for the baby than a tired, frustrated, stressed-out mum.
Much easier to have a break. Which is so important for your mental health.
You can go longer between feeds, which means more sleep, which is better for everyone in the family
It's much easier for the baby to build a bond with your partner, if you have one
You don't have that awful situation where you can't go to the corner shop because the baby is going to start screaming for milk five seconds after you leave the house. #stillbitter
No cluster feeding. Dear god, cluster feeding.
Your DP doesn't put on loads of weight because of all the cake
You don't have to go through the painful process of weaning a child who loves boob off it

I really wish the NHS were more honest about how hard Bffeeding is. The information I got pre-pregnancy was basically "All babies are born knowing how to feed! If it doesn't work it's because you're doing it wrong." Which is so far from the truth it's untrue. I think if mothers were more aware of how common it is for babies to take days to figure it out, they'd be better prepared, and not feel like their lovely bffeeding dreams had been shat on.

I also wish they didn't keep pushing the health benefits, and instead looked at the more nuanced benefits for your family of both methods. I'm sure there are plenty of cases of PND which have been exacerbated by mothers who chose a feeding method - either BF or FF - which just wasn't right for them as mothers.

Most of the health benefits disappear when you control for class. Honestly.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/24/class-baby-breastfed-life-chances-inequality

As far as I can tell, the advantages of bfing are:
Cheaper
Helps you lose baby weight
Easy way to comfort a distressed baby
You can do it one-handed, so can read/faff around on your phone at the same time
You've never caught out and about with no food for the baby
You don't have to faff around sterilising bottles
There's sleep hormone in breast milk, so helps babies sleep. (But then there's probably sleep hormone in the cows milk in formula too).
Milk is calibrated to have the right amount of water for the temperature and it's much harder (though not impossible) to overfeed a breastfed baby
You won't give a baby gastroenteritis by incorrectly cleaning the bottles
Although all the formula feeders I know feed their baby by cuddling him or her close to them, there are some mothers who don't - which makes bonding harder. (I don't believe for a moment that just sucking a tit rather than a teat makes the slightest difference to bonding.)
Good excuse to eat lots of cake

On the other hand, formula feeding has loads of advantages too:
It's quicker and less painful and exhausting
You can continue to take lots of medications that you can't take while breastfeeding
It's much easier to leave the baby - which means you have to give up fewer things - which makes you happier - which is much, much better for the baby than a tired, frustrated, stressed-out mum.
Much easier to have a break. Which is so important for your mental health.
You can go longer between feeds, which means more sleep, which is better for everyone in the family
It's much easier for the baby to build a bond with your partner, if you have one
You don't have that awful situation where you can't go to the corner shop because the baby is going to start screaming for milk five seconds after you leave the house. #stillbitter
No cluster feeding. Dear god, cluster feeding.
Your DP doesn't put on loads of weight because of all the cake
You don't have to go through the painful process of weaning a child who loves boob off it

I really wish the NHS were more honest about how hard Bffeeding is. The information I got pre-pregnancy was basically "All babies are born knowing how to feed! If it doesn't work it's because you're doing it wrong." Which is so far from the truth it's untrue. I think if mothers were more aware of how common it is for babies to take days to figure it out, they'd be better prepared, and not feel like their lovely bffeeding dreams had been shat on.

I also wish they didn't keep pushing the health benefits, and instead looked at the more nuanced benefits for your family of both methods. I'm sure there are plenty of cases of PND which have been exacerbated by mothers who chose a feeding method - either BF or FF - which just wasn't right for them as mothers.

Not according to:

The NHS
The WHO
The American Academy of Paediatrics
UNICEF

..and every single single major reputable health body.

But you believe what you read in The Guardian if it helps you feel better about your choices.

No judgement here. I breastfed mine til they were 2/3 years but only breastfed in the first place because:
I was too lazy/knackered to do bottles
I made a lot of milk and it was free
I was co sleeping/sleep deprived
And I only bf for as long as I did because I struggled to get them to go cold turkey.
So no, I don't judge. I don't think it matters. I was bottle fed. I did alright
I have been judged though. It does not feel nice. Fortunately I can hold my own so gave a mouthful back (one bloke called me a sow, another told me I was disgusting. Some women were at how long I had bf for.
Some people thought I was doing extended bf as I couldn't let go. Far from it, I desperately wanted my boobs back but the little buggers weren't having it!)
So I don't judge. Same as for births. Or nutrition or meltdowns. Although I do confess to being sometimes of those who had sections or date nights or got babies into a routine or have helpful in-laws. Even though I know none of those necessarily come without a price to pay.

I don't particularly care, no.

I do feel a pang when i see ff mothers though, that bf rates in this country are so low, support is so poor, and attitudes so behind.

I believe it should be a totally free choice. I don't think it is though. Especially when someone ff come out with a long list of perfectly normal bf behaviour (frequent feeding, runny poo, not sleeping through, not being able to express etc) and then say they didn't bf because they had no milk. Or some other myth like you can't breastfeed a baby weighing more than 9 lb.

Feeding is much more complicated than just whether the milk itself is better for the baby or not.

I actually believe that breatsmilk is better than for USA for a baby. Easier to digest etc etc...

HOWEVER! There are so many other things to consider re FF or bfing. From being able to get some help in the night (or duinrg the day), whether yu are going back to work early or stay at home until your DC is over 1yo etc.
If bfing is detrimental to the mother's MH, as in too much pressure, no break too hard to establish, the what good is it doing to the baby?

The issue is so complex that I wouldn't want to make. Judgement on anyone deciding to bf or to ff.
I would just hope that they have made an informed decision and that this is what is best for them, rather than ff because that's what everyone does around me or because (on paper/what xx said/what my mum did for me so it must go enough etc...) it feels easier iyswim

"On the other hand, formula feeding has loads of advantages too:"

Can you come up with a list of advantages for babies?

Because the argument that not engaging in parenting practices you find unpleasant invariably results in better outcomes for babies (because, you know, 'happy mother happy baby) is constantly being trotted out without examination.

Anyone who challenges this as being a bit simplistic will face a barrage of voices insisting that depressed mothers are bad for babies, to which the response has got to be, well of course they are, but that doing something you don't particularly enjoy or find difficult for the sake of your child's well-being doesn't usually result in depression, poor parenting, family distress and child abuse. It's the exception rather than the rule. On mumsnet, when it comes to breastfeeding it's assumed to be the rule.

Don't bother me at all, I never wanted to bf. I think it's lovely if you can but would never judge.
I remember when I was pregnant with my first I had a family friend ask me if I was bf, when I said no he said he thought women who choose not to bf do not deserve to be mothers I lost the my baby at 22 weeks into the pregnancy and he called to say he will never forgive himself for that comment.

How to fed your child is your choice as a mother, I'm pro feeding a baby end of.

I am breastfeeding my almost one year old ex-26 weeker twins. It's free, it's a lot less hassle than bottles/formula for 2 and for very prem babies, it is absolutely the best thing for them.

However, the majority of my friends have FF their babies. I've eventually worked out that they pretty much all had shit or non-existent postnatal advice/help/support re breastfeeding and what is/isn't normal for breastfeeding etc.
That's the bit that makes me sad/mad etc, that they didn't breastfeed because they didn't get the right help and advice.

The only thing I think if I see someone with a bottle is that I hope they made the decision for themselves, rather than because they didn't get the right help etc.

No, I honestly don't care.
I don't actually believe BF is always better for the baby. I know plenty of women who BF but have very low vitamin D levels and iron levels, and do not supplement the babies either.

There was one case I read about (in Anne Enright's 'Making Babies', so I don't have a link) where the mother was so depressed she killed herself and her child.

She hadn't taken her antidepressants because she was breastfeeding.

Obviously that's an extreme example. But living with a parent whose depressed can have a massive impact on a child - it's considered an adverse childhood experience by child psychologists.

It's the exception rather than the rule. On mumsnet, when it comes to breastfeeding it's assumed to be the rule.

I agree with all of this, actually. It doesn't necessarily happen, of course. But coming off antidepressants or anti-psychotics because you want to breastfeed is something that would be ringing alarm bells for me, both for the baby and for any older children in the family. In that case I would very definitely be asking the mother to consider very hard whether formula feeding might be better.