Why why WHY do my kids do this?!!

[NoCapes]

And how do I make it stop?!

Every single BASTARDING night we have this!

They're 4 & 6, bedtime has always been a nightmare, particularly the 6 year old. In the past I've been known to still be sitting on his bedroom floor at 2am (from 7pm) sometimes with him still awake.
The 4 year old has on the whole been pretty good, but then of course started copying her brother.

Things got better for a while, then within the last 12/18 months or so we've been on a downward spiral and I'm about at breaking point.

They go to bed fine, 4 year old goes first; story, milk, kisses, goodnight. Then the same for the 6 year old, all lovely.
Then it begins.
Up, down, in and out of each other's bedrooms, shouting down the stairs oh God the shouting down the stairs - "they need water they need a wee they need a poo they need their in-haler they need a teddy they need a different teddy DS is shouting DD is shouting" and on and on and on...

But the worst part is - they need a response!
So it's "I'm going to the toilet!...Mum! I'm going to the toilet! Muuuuum I'm having a wee! Muuuuum! Mum! Mum! Mum!"
WHY!?!?!?! Just go to the fucking toilet!!!!! No-one cares!!!!!!!!!

We have a new baby and I'm constantly waking him up just shouting "shush" up the stairs! It is a fucking joke!!

I am seriously at the end of my tether and by about 9:20 tonight I was half way out of the door!
Someone please help me?!!

I mentioned the inhaler in a long list of excuses that they get out of bed and shout me for.
I also mentioned that they also shout that they need a wee or a poo several times but no-one is suggesting they have bladder or bowel issues. They also shout for water but no-one has suggested I never give them a drink and they're dehydrated.
You have cherry picked a tiny piece of information and bleated on and on about it suggesting that I am neglectful & endangering my children's lives.
But actually I am glad it was mentioned because I didn't know it could cause insomnia so it has potentially answered my original question.

I am sick of saying the same thing now.
My son has asthma. He has inhalers. He knows where they are kept and he knows how to administer them himself should the need ever arise. He has never needed to as yet but I am glad he has this knowledge. his asthma is very well managed and he is healthy and safe
Conversation over.

Jeez math, being able to administer his inhaler himself and being by himself while he does it are 2 different things. Leave the op alone now.

Agree with lemon that's a bit far!
NoCapes was having a bit of a moan & asking for advice, she didn't need u jumping down her throat, people right on here for support not to be judged & have to explain every aspect of their lives. We have all been in that boat where the kids pull every excuse to not go to bed, God I even did it myself, my favourite being 'there's a spider no way I'm sleeping in there'
Op I'm sorry I have no useful advice apart from I am going threw the same thing but with younger kids, God knows how to try sort it but u aren't alone! I hope ur kiddies stop messing around soon & U may actually get 5mins to urself before u need to go to bed.

I mentioned the inhaler in a long list of excuses that they get out of bed and shout me for.

You mentioned it in the context of a list of things that are all set up for them and therefore don't need you to get for them (water, inhaler, teddy) while also talking about them needing constant acknowledgement from you that they are using the loo, etc.

They have water and in-halers accessible at all times, and both have a comfort teddy that lives on the bed always

and

they need water they need a wee they need a poo they need their in-haler they need a teddy they need a different teddy DS is shouting DD is shouting" and on and on and on...

^But the worst part is - they need a response!
So it's "I'm going to the toilet!...Mum! I'm going to the toilet! Muuuuum I'm having a wee! Muuuuum! Mum! Mum! Mum!"^

You wanted to know why, when everything is set up for them, do they still put on this performance.

No math I never said "they can do all these things themselves so they shouldn't need me" you're embellishing.
It was just a ranty list to illustrate the million things they shout down the stairs.
Somebody then asked me if I pre-empt all the things like giving them water & inhalers in their rooms which was when I said they have those things in their rooms anyway, meaning they shout for no reason it wouldn't matter if they had these things or not.

We can talk about this forever and I don't think it would make one bit of difference. You have already decided that I'm a shit mum, my kids lives are in danger as in so neglectful and that I am completely clueless on my sons medical conditions so anything I say is pointless at this stage.
So I'm going to take the advice above about annoying children and just stop responding and hopefully you'll get bored and bugger off.

Thank you Lemon & 1fedupmama and to Shark and all the other supportive and helpful posters
And I hope all those suffering get some sleep soon

I never said "they can do all these things themselves so they shouldn't need me".

I didn't say that either.

And I don't know where you're getting this:
"You have already decided that I'm a shit mum, my kids lives are in danger as in so neglectful and that I am completely clueless on my sons medical conditions so anything I say is pointless at this stage."

What I am saying is, you should not have the inhaler in your son's room.
If he needs it at night you should bring it to him. You should have a monitor so you can hear if he is having an attack. The monitor would afford a certain amount of peace of mind to him.
If he needs it a lot at night, you should get an appointment to have an asthma management overhaul.
If he rarely has a nighttime attack then he doesn't need it to hand. If he shouts to you that he needs his inhaler when he does not need it, he does not appreciate that the inhaler is not in the same category as a teddy or a drink of water, and it should not be left where he can access it.

If he is constantly seeking your acknowledgement of every little thing he does all evening and inventing needs that you have to fill for him, then you should look at the possibility of anxiety. In a child with severe asthma who has been to hospital to use a nebuliser when he was younger, the possibility that the anxiety is related to the asthma is one you should not dismiss. Not being able to breathe is frightening..

OP I've refrained from mentioning Thu but your opening post about your children was very aggressive about them. Do you feel they get enough of your undivided and unconditional attention. Do you think they might perceive that you'd like them to bugger off and this is why they might be kicking off.

Your posts seem very sad and defensive to me rather than despairing in spite of shed loads of love. I don't think you have once acknowledged how adorable and rewarding your children are when they aren't disturbing you. Mine have driven me to distraction at times but most of the time they melt my heart. Even when they were impossible teenagers.

I mean this constructively but wonder if you might find some family support classes helpful. I'm sure your GP/HV could help with referrals to support you to manage sleep and behaviour better and to reflect on the impact on your own emotions and how you manage them.

Jeeesus...

You can't post anything on Mumsnet these days without your whole existence being questioned.

NoCapes I think most of us get that you were having a rant about bedtime and were after any good advice. I'm sure the rest of your life is fine.

Oh ffs

Funnily enough Belle when I'm angry and frustrated i sound...erm...angry and frustrated! What a shock!
This wasn't a thread about what I love about my children, in fact it was the exact opposite, so forgive me for not listing everything I love about them - just so I know do I have to do this in everything I post on MN? Because I posted in the housekeeping section earlier and didn't sign off with 'I love my kids'

This has just gotten ridiculous now

I think in future I'll stick to the more lighthearted chatty sections of MN and avoid seeking help and advice - there really are some peaches around here aren't there

they melt my heart

Folk need to stop nit picking. kids push buttons, they moan, they are there to push the boundaries & wind us up, that doesn't mean that the live isn't there! Everyone needs an outlet wether it be a rant on here, to a friend, screaming, writing a diary/blog something, a night out anything. I live a rant as much as the next person but will Definately think twice before ranting on here if this is what happens!! Jeezo!!

The love*

MsAdorabelle, if it was as easy a matter as sending them off to bed and not hearing any more from them after that, then perhaps there wouldn't be as many people here sharing similar experiences.

Clearly something is causing all of this. What is to be lost by seeking to understand it?

I tell my lovely DD that after the goodnight, if she remains awake and makes any noise i have to turn all the lights off. I tell her it's a rule all adults follow to make sure DC get enough sleep so that they have fun the next day. So, any noise after goodnight results in light off while the noise continues and as soon as there's absolute silence the light can go back on immediately. Another peep, it goes back off for 30-60 seconds until she's quiet again.

It has worked wonderfully. She even tells us she's ready, goes up and looks at books quietly until she's tired and will then simply go to sleep.

She's a sweetheart and has grasped the concept well.

I've never even had to raise my voice to her. She's such a good girl.

Good luck.

Math I think u are really over thinking this. It could be as simple as the kids trying to push mums buttons, doesnt mean they are neglected, hated, have any behavioural or mental problems, just means they are kids 😕 Yes these things may be an issue but 9/10 times its just the kids trying to get a rise & seeing if mum will crack & say 'fine u can stay up' when I did it as a kid it was purely to get to stay up later so I could brag about it to my friends! 'I got to stay up late last night to eat pizza with my dad because I said I was too scared of a spider to sleep' I still remember this night very well & my dad still tells the story of the time I bested him at bedtime.
Not all kids have issues, not all parents have issues, stop trying to make out like they do.

Ok so math seems to have got a little over excited.

But did anyone else pick up that nooka child is using her Inhaler upto three times a week. This is poorly controlled asthma, please take her back to the doctors. Have a look at asthma UK website for more help to.
DS needed his steroids uping when he was still having to use his blue inhaler that often. This means she could have a major attack at any time.

...doesnt mean they are neglected, hated, have any behavioural or mental problems...

That wasn't what I said, or implied.

Would it hurt to have them up, reading quietly, or drawing, or listening to music on headphones in the same room as the OP for an hour or so in the evening? They are up anyway, with no word as to the effect of this on their performance in school or ease of getting up next morning, so why not compromise and let them stay quietly in the sitting room with mum and the baby? Not all children need the early bedtime so beloved of British parents.

Maybe these children could do with the company? Certainly a child who needed a parent to stay up with him until 2 am in the past has something going on that needs addressing when it is clear he is still not out of the woods.

As well as that, it is really good for children to learn to be in the same space as an adult without needing the constant attention of the adult, able to pursue a quiet interest without constant acknowledgement. It has a good effect on school performance when children can work independently and don't seek attention, even negative attention from the teacher. They are getting a good deal of negative attention right now, and this could have a knock on effect. Maybe they need more positive attention during the day and in the evening? Maybe if they help clearing dinner away they could be praised, or if they leave the bathroom nice and tidy they could hear about that. There are all sorts of ways to catch them being good and it has a good effect on behaviour.

I'm reading with interest the replies endorsing reward charts/promises of buying new toys and so on. I have tried this numerous times with my (almost four) daughter. She is very keen to talk about what toy she will choose after staying in bed but has never been so interested that she will stay in her own bed.

I've tried a few different tactics. At first we said if she stayed in her bed three nights, we would bring her to the toyshop and she could choose a toy. Failed to convince her it was worth staying in her own bed for.....

We then tried buying some characters, wrapping them up and enthusiastically promising her that if she stayed in her own bed, she could unwrap one in the morning. Failed to convince her it was worth staying in her own bed for...........

We then promised she could have the toy on the tv advert that she really really really wanted. It was a big toy so first we said that she would have to stay in her own bed three nights before she could get it. That didn't work so we said if she stayed in her own bed one night, she could get it .

We have a very regular bedtime routine, at the end of which we would ideally like to read a story, cuddle for ten minutes and walk away. But it never works. We end up staying (at her insistence) for up to two hours. When we tried to leave after the story and cuddle, it didn't work either. It has got to the stage where we just accept it but I don't like it as it often means I don't get back downstairs until 11pm as I very often end up falling asleep myself.

To those worried about my daughter, she is using her inhaler exactly as prescribed and no I don't have any reason to think that she is on the verge of a major attack. She has never had a major or indeed more than a very minor attack to date, and at 15 she's pretty good at managing her symptoms (she has a few other chronic issues so is sadly accustomed to medication). She just has to do sport every day and she can't do exercise without using her inhaler. She doesn't have a brown inhaler (she does have a red one though) as she doesn't have severe asthma.

OP I doubt very much that your children have any major issues, and once they crack getting to bed and settling on their own I'm sure things will settle down (and you'll get a chance to have much needed down time). Different children have different challenges. Mine tell me they were too scared to get out of bed, but they also liked to do the "mummy, mummy, mummy" thing, just they did it during the day. Often by the time I responded they'd forgotten what it was that was so urgent to tell me right then, and just said "I love you" instead. Which was lovely and also incredibly irritating :) I don't think they were in any way scarred for having a pretty fiercely defended bedtime.

Hi looki. So sorry you are having a rough time too.

My DS was the same...no reward chart, bribe or incentive made a difference at all! He's only getting it now I think cos he's older.

So no advice other than be kind to yourself, rest when possible and it will hopefully pass.

Is she at school yet? X

I don't think reward should mean toys or expensive outings. I think many children need more positive attention during the day, early evening. Simple things like bug hunting I the garden, spotting birds and flowers (how many colours, how many finches), home made hot chocolate, looking at and trying to count stars or clouds - and then getting some books and learning about them. Activating their sponge like minds in the day time.

I do know what non sleepers are like. I had one in particular. When he was about 18 months we decided and realised he just didn't need much sleep and started putting him to bed at ten. All our lives improved and he learnt to play nicely and quietly downstairs and if dads was home early, before 9.30, the biggest treat was sitting with daddy when daddy had supper. It really wasn't a problem and was actually an opportunity to learn and experience more. He was free reading at six and a half and much keener to go to bed then on the basis that meant he could have a super long read.

I hope the nights get better for you.

Bloody hell op! A simple question about how to get your kids to sleep and suddenly you've been turned into a neglectful and in loving mother.
Hope you manage to get through the nightime dramas.

*unloving

Anne well said.

Beaufort your post has made me so cross, though I expect you mean well.

nocapes - pm me if you need to rant.

Take care everyone. xxx

I think a way to keep this thread going as a source of support for OP and everyone else experiencing this nightmare is simply to ignore mathanxiety and that other one who keeps criticising OP's parenting.

Let's just act like they haven't posted, and stay on topic. If it's not about the original problem, the post simply didn't happen.