smacking???

[Suzy4321]

Hi , I'm just curious what's people's views on smacking.

Before anyone gets on their soap box I literally mean a hand tap! Not beating or any force.

I remember when I was young I was smacked only when really playing up as a last resort. It never damaged me in any way.

Again only smack ( light hand tap) not legs and never face.

Like I say just curious

Here is the issue (as others have said)

To do it lightly doesn't shock and doesn't hurt and hence doesn't frighten or deter.

Let's be real: The point of a smack is to be an unpleasant consequence, so it should be something bad. Hence, painful. Painful for a few seconds, maybe, but painful. The entire point of any punishment is that the child finds it unpleasant and wishes to avoid it. Nobody cares about being tapped.

Whether a child should fear a punishment is another argument. Whether a child fears the pain from a smack is totally dependent on the child. Some of them would, some take it in stride. It's always been that way.

Then you have the argument of whether punishments are necessary at all. It's totally not the case that the only alternative to smacking is another punishment. There are non punitive ways to manage behaviour.

The smacking for safety argument is silly.

If a child is about to get into danger, smacking them doesn't automatically stop that danger. What stops the danger is you physically pulling them away. You might do it more sharply than you would remove them from e.g. an object you don't want them to play with, but you wouldn't be doing it with the intention to hurt them, that's different.

I think that the hypothetical smack for running in the road or touching an oven comes after the pulling away. You pull them away (anyone would!) and then an emotional/frightened parent might smack in order to "cement" the message that this was bad. I can understand it, but I don't think it makes a difference. The shock of being pulled backwards is startling. And yes, of course, if your option was to "smack" a hand away, that's not the same thing, but it's not generally what people mean.

And generally you need to childproof the environment and restrict your child's freedom until they can handle it, rather than giving them too much too soon and using punishment to fill the gap. If you're religious about using reins, a pushchair or hand holding (in a way they can't wriggle out of) near roads then the chances are very very low that they will be able to run into one.

Ever since the non smacking campaign .., theres always the line. Oh alternatives ... but not mention what they might be.
Time out is exclusion however you dress it up, removing a top .. is i supppse theft or blackmail, they all have an effect ob a child.

*Toy

Sally, do you mean that you think that the only option for disciplining a child is to smack or to do timeouts/toy confiscation? Surely you must be aware of a range of parenting approaches apart from an authoritarian discipline/punishment approach?

Nope ... I was saying if you read the post, that however you chose to correct behaviour it msy have a negagtive impact on a child. Take friends positive approach. Child cries everytime they make a mistake. Or can see when a child is being mean to the Bless Katie she only hit you because X Y Z so Katie keeps hitting and child keeps making excuses. Or the kid thst gets lots of stuff ... who just wants more stuff
Or the earn your treats approach .... be good get rewarded, not life is it? Otherwise Id have won the lottery
I never said it was my approach .. just that no style is perfect.

Interesting Suzy. So minimisation language "taps" is fine but I am over dramatising?

No of course I have never smacked a child nor been smacked myself. I think it's wrong however you dress it up. You do not. You know my opinion on that. And yes I do feel strongly about this and will not tiptoe around grown adults feelings when it comes to hitting children. If that bothers you why did you even start the thread?

Punitive alternatives:

• Removing toys
• Time out
• Shouting (some feel in the same vein as smacking)
• Grounding/screen ban
• Removal of privileges
• Extra chores
• Write lines/apology letter
• Logical, related consequence (e.g. cleaning up mess made, using own money to replace broken item)
• Lose pocket money/fines
• Withdrawal of attention
• Uncomfortable telling-off (not shouty)
• Natural consequence (let child find out the effects for themselves)

Positive alternatives

• Reward chart
• Points system
• Concentrate on good, ignore bad
• Small immediate rewards e.g. sticker
• Pasta/pebble jar system
• Tie pocket money/screen time/etc to positive expectations
• Explain when they have done X they can do/have Y (rather than if you don't do X, you can't have Y)

Non-behaviourist alternatives

• Prevent behaviour by applying restrictions (safety devices, supervision, keeping e.g. pens out of reach)
• Talk to child about behaviour and explain why it is wrong/what they should do instead
• Consistently emphasise and encourage what you want
• Modelling the behaviour you want
• Have age appropriate expectations, which might be lower than what society expects/demands
• Put a lot of work into attachment and communication
• Emphasise and model cooperation
• Pare down the rules to those which are vital, and ignore the rest
• Problem-solving - when a problematic situation occurs try to find a way with the child to solve it
• Make the right choice easier and/or more pleasant to make
• Ask yourself why your child is behaving in this way and look to address the root cause rather than the symptom (behaviour)
• Assume positive intent and ask yourself what they were trying to do, see if you can help/allow them do it in a more acceptable way.
• Distraction (for children not young enough to understand)
• Remove child from situation
• Help child with strategies to handle a situation better in future
• Give children a choice between two options, both acceptable to you to maintain a sense of control for them
• Explain in terms they can understand (e.g. three more turns on the slide, not we're leaving soon/now/in 5 mins when they don't know what a minute is)
• Let them do as much as they can for themselves to allow them to feel independent and capable (in addition, don't rush in and solve problems for them)
• Remind of the rules every time and make them easy to follow, realising that children don't always remember
• Build, work on, constantly reaffirm trust - we tend to do as people we trust ask
• Negotiate. Seriously. If it's possible (it's not always practical.)
• Talk about your feelings and let them talk about theirs
• Look for win-win solutions
• Stop thinking of feelings (tantrums) and accidents (carelessness) as being "naughty"
• In fact, totally eliminate the word naughty from your vocabulary and try to be more descriptive. Is this behaviour messy? Wasteful? Annoying? Hurtful? It makes it easier to work out the best way to deal with it and more direct when you do.
• Instigate a "calm down corner" which is neither positive or negative, just a normal/neutral part of your home. Can be used for calming excitement, anger, sadness, anything. Parents can also go here to calm down
• Ask (older kids) to research and/or think about why something is important to parents or people in general

Running out of steam... probably more things for each list, but there you go. Enough alternatives?

I'm being very dim here, but I don't really understand your reply either (perhaps a busy day at work and early pregnancy is to blame).

"However you choose to correct behaviour it may have a negative effect on the child" - I think this is the main bit of what you're saying? But I don't really understand what your point is. In the rest of your post you seem to be saying that other parenting techniques that you know of are not effective or have unintended consequences. I don't do any of the techniques you mention, although perhaps the "positive" approach might be similar, I don't know what this involves. Certainly my child doesn't cry every time they make a mistake, in fact hardly ever.

Isn't the point of parenting to try and get your child to the point where they behave well because it's the right thing to do, not because they fear punishment/want a reward/want to please/fear disapproval/fear emotional withdrawal? As an adult I (try to) do the right thing for that reason, not because of any of those other external motivators.

OK - DS comes home tonight hes in a bad mood, hes had a miserable day as a child in his class has kicked off and wrecked the class (again) they have all missed golden time and had to tidy up. The HT has been in complaining about their behaviour (read half hour rant) Hes hungry ... this is not good for his mood. ... So he comes home his sister is sat on the sofa and he launches into her kicking and punching DD has not said or done anything.
So what do I do?
No darling no marble for you?
Oh dear thats 10 mins screen time gone?
Smack? Nope wont help either
Discuss? Not going to happen hes pent up and he wont listen.
Did I teach him to hit? No.
Naughty step? Unlikely.
Remind him of the rules ... hes not listening and had a gut full from HT
Send to room ... no he`ll trash it.

Your list may work on a four year old but not much older.

And no I didnt hit him.

What did you do?

His sister sat on him. She didnt hurt him. Them I called for the 10 foot rule. (Effectively they have to ne 10 foot away from each other, so different rooms) they can be in the kitchen with me, bedroom dining room, but not limited to one space.
Then I fed DS. Always helps.
Then he was fine. Hell talk when ready. But Im not going to punish him for being in a crap school.

Sally how old is your DS? Attacking his sister and trashing his room is pretty serious behaviour and far beyond normal reaction to a fairly standard bad day.

Sally he shouldn't be punished for being in a bad school.

He should be punished for attacking his sister.

Unless there are other issues you haven't mentioned then the old standard 'we can't help how we feel but we can help how be behave' applies.

So, natural consequences (his sister sat on him), followed by applying restrictions (your 10 ft rule) and then addressing the root cause (hunger was part of it, so fed him). Then you said you will talk to him when he's calm. So that's 4 things off Bertie's list.

Kerala. I asked a question was polite and asked for informative replies. BUT all you decided to do is go on a rant. And insult everyone who does not share your opinion! YOU ARE RUDE! Insulting and have not made any attempt at a valid answer. And I presume now more insults will ensue

Dally. Dd has come home in a similar mood from her friend's house. I gave her 10 minutes to sort herself out and then, when she didn't I sent her to bed early. Thankfully although she stamped up the stairs and fake cried she didn't put up too much of a fight otherwise I'm not sure how I would have taken it further.
Ashamed to say that yes, in the past I have smacked in temper.
I was smacked occasionally as a child and although I don't feel 'it did me any harm' it has obviously imprinted itself as a response to bad behaviour. Obviously I don't want my children to be smackers so I now use strategies such as walking away, counting backwards from a high number to minimise the anger.

My list? I included suggestions for all ages from babies to teenagers. I use several with my son who is seven. Some of them he wouldn't yet understand. Some of them I'm crap at, some wouldn't work for his personality. Obviously not all suggestions work all the time with all children, but I thought that was clear. If somebody could come up with a magical child discipline system which works with all children, for all parents, in all situations, with guaranteed no ill effects ever, they would be a millionaire! We're going to get it wrong sometimes. That's life. But you asked for options and I listed some options.

If you wanted help with a specific situation you could ask about that, rather than attacking a list which was meant as a response to your plea for alternatives, not a tailor made solution to a problem you hadn't even explained or communicated.

thehandy

Smacking bloody well does hurt. I remember being smacked as a child. I don't have any lingering resentment over it, but it definitely hurt - that's the whole point isn't it?

My DS came home in a shit mood, too. It's Friday, almost the end of term, I don't think it's unusual. I told him not to be rude and told him I wouldn't rush to help him out (some minecraft issue) while he was huffing and puffing and being horrible and then I closed the door so he couldn't come in and be a pain. He went off and harrumphed a bit and then came back and asked if I'd play a game with him. I was doing something else, so I said no. Later when he was feeling calmer we played the game and then he had dinner and went to bed. Pretty minor, though.

If you wanted help with a specific situation you could ask about that

Can i take you upnon that?

I remember being smacked as a child.
I was 7 and my Mum cught me hiding my dads safety razor blades in the bowl of sugar, in the coffee, amongst the knives, in with the spoons and anywhere else I thought someone would put their fingers.

She didn't smack me the first time she cught me, nor the second, nor the third, it was the fourth time in that week.

What would you have done after reasoning, questioning, pleading, bribing, hiding blades etc had all failed?

If you wanted help with a specific situation you could ask about that

Nope didnt ask for advise.

Wow. I don't know. I wouldn't smack, though, because I can't, it's illegal where I live. I don't have the choice and so it's just not an option any more than cutting the child with razor blades themselves would be.

I would probably remove the items from the house entirely, considering a 7 year old can't actually buy razors, and DH uses an electric shaver anyway, not sure if it was something which was actually needed e.g. cooking knives - I'd be pretty worried though and if my child was expressing a persistent desire to hurt people then I'd probably seek psychological evaluation.

Out of interest why did you do it and why did a smack work when none of the other things she tried did?

I did it because I wanted to cut my brothers fingers, watching them bleed was funny. That was literally the only reason.

I remember the smack, can still feel it I reckon. Mum was so angry, justifiably sonid say.