relationship with 7 year old DD already so complicated

[nojumperup]

Hello everybody. I am having a rubbish day and wondering if anyone has any similar experience to me.

I have a 7yo DD and needless to say I love her more than anything in the world. But it seems as though our relationship is already so complicated. The issues mainly stem around childcare I guess, although could be extended to her need for me generally, which if I am completely honest I sometimes find claustrophobic. I have always worked full time. I work because I want to and need to, financially. Having said that, I am lucky enough to work in a very flexible job, so although I work everyday, I am often able to drop my DD at school, and I pick her up at least once a week. I spent quite a lot of time at home over the summer too, for example.

Anyway, the point is that I feel (she makes me feel??) terribly guilty about leaving her. Until recently she was in wraparound care (with her brother) but I felt that was leading to a very long day for all of us, so we have now got a lovely au pair. But when I left for work this morning, she (my DD)was crying and terribly upset, leaving me also upset and our poor au pair not knowing what to do. This has been the same for years as childcare has always been an issue - no matter what solution I try, it's basically not OK as she makes clear that she wants to be with me.

The thing is, I feel guilty about this, but also if I'm honest a bit resentful and angry. I want to tell her that I am doing my best, and it's not fair for her to make me feel like this ... but I know she's only 7!! I feel as though our relationship is getting quite complex, and I want to nip it in the bud. But the trouble is, for her the only solution would be mummy not going to work and that's just not an option. Even having cut back the amount I have has had a profound impact on my career prospects. That's fine with me, but it would be difficult to do even less and stay in this job. Anyone else been here? Sorry this is long!

Hi OP, when I was younger I hated my mum going to work, it seemed that it took over her life and she enjoyed being at work more than she did us, I don't know why I felt this way ??, I also liked the fact that when I was at school I had and found comfort of her being at home, if I was ill and she had to come and get me from school or someone else had to I always felt like a burden on her and the situation.

It sounds so stupi now as I am older and a mum myself but I still remember these feelings of being second best or a burden, I loved the relationship I would see between my friends and there mums that was stay at home, they were always there in the playground and my mum was in and out like a flash because school hours were still middle of a work day for her, I feel stupid writing this I really do but trying to give you perspective of how I felt as a child ??.

Because of these feelings I had I have chooses to be a stay at home mum (for the 1st three years of my eldest life I was finishing my qualifications, so I can always go back in the field when I feel the time is right) and even now I still feel guilt about missing those first three years studying and working and swore I wouldn't miss my other children. I admit i am very very lucky that I can do this and stay at home x hope I have given you some perspective on how your little girl maybe thinking OP, does she speak to you about this what kind of things does she say? I maybe able to put some light on it for you as I felt the same x

I have to be brutally honest with you. I think your dd is DESPERATE for your love and for your attention, she misses you, she wants to be with you. As her mother and at this age (she is still so young) you are the centre of her universe, she badly needs to feel both loved and looked after by you. All the wraparound childcare in the world is not going to feel the void your child is experiencing. Sorry to tell you. It sounds like her heart is breaking....and she is really struggling.

I am not intending to hurt you with my response, but as an outsider this is how I see it. DD is hurting every single time you leave her because she is not spending anywhere near enough quality time with you. The 'long' days as you describe them are leaving her feeling emotionally abandoned, you are clearly working very long hours, do you NEED to? Or do you WANT to?
If you were actually able to spend longer with her, ie cutting back your hours do you think this would help? Would you do it?
I don't think you can feel angry with a child who is desperate to be with you, but maybe you feel guilty because you are can alleviate this pain whenever you want to, and yet you don't.
This relationship is complicated because you are expected to look after your children, to be part of their lives and to enjoy being with them, and yet you don't sound like you are doing any of these things very often. Or certainly not for long enough. I wonder if you have had some experiences of PND?

If you want your life to become simple, cut back your hours, spend some time with your dd just the two of you, she will grow up before you know it, and you will have lost the one chance you now have to form a special and meaningful bond with her. To experience and enjoy her childhood. If you have to go without some luxuries/necessities to make this happen, do you think anyone cares about them really? Children would always much rather be with you. If it were me, I would do this in a heart beat, your dd should be your priority, she should come before everything.

Working is fine. Childcare is fine. I think the problem you have is inconsistent childcarers. In wrap around care she would be getting different carers each day, and often changing. Au pair is new which is the problem as she doesn't have a bond with her like she would with a nanny she had had since birth.
The au pair should help situation as one- one ( or two if sibling also). But will au pair only stay a year? Is there any way you can get a permanent part time nanny?

Do you have fixed hours? So she knows you pick up every Thursday for example.

What do you do with her in the mornings/ evenings/ weekends? Can you introduce some one - one time with her? Maybe every morning between 7-7.30am she can come in your bed with you and snuggle and have stories? In the evening dedicate say 7-8pm just playing with children/ reading or listening to them

Hi OP - it sounds like a really difficult situation?

Is there a DH/DP? What is his role in terms of financial contribution to the house and does he work a lot?

What is your daughter's relationship like with her dad?
I imagine your daughter missed you very much but if you GENUINELY have to work as many hours as you then making you feel guilty about it (which I don't intend to anyway) is pointless. You probably feel guilty enough as it is.

I work full time over three days and my DS goes to a childminder two days a week. I get four full days with my DS each week and I still feel like it isn't enough.

On the days I have to work I only see him for 20 minutes in the morning and it's really difficult. Dependent on my shifts I can sometimes go 48 hours without seeing him.

On my three working days I find it very hard to see so little of him but at least I get those full four days during the rest of the week which is more than a lot of working mothers get so I try since be thankful for that.

If you genuinely do have to work so often and use such frequent childcare then I guess there's no solution.

However, if in your heart of hearts you know that you can afford to work less than it's up to you to decide if you're prepared to do that for your daughter's sake.

They are young for such a short period of time and her happiness and your relationship with her should be your absolute top priority.

I'd put her back in wrap around care, and make serious plans one day a week just for her and you in the evening. Do some crafting, or painting, or going out to a gallery / for a pizza. Have fun and listen.

Your au pair sounds like a flake if she doesn't know what to do with an upset child. Maybe she's telling her rubbish about her mummy not loving her as she's working?

You say your dd was happy until you changed the childcare arrangements, ergo it's the childcare arrangements that are the problem, not your work.

Fwiw, emotional availability isn't a function of time spent with children. How many SAHparents are on their phones all day, or just busy with other stuff/ in bad tempers with boredom/ lack of financial independence.

Real emotional connection isn't time dependent - make sure to give your dd and yourself a few hours a week to connect meaningfully, and she'll be fine in wrap around care.

Ditch the chocolate tea pot au pair.

Don't feel guilty about working! It helps you as a parent if you're happy. And a happy parent makes a happy child.
Too many mothers give up work and are the worse for it as they try and go back. Not fair, but true.

Stay put in your job.
Schedule your time rigorously, and allocate meaningful time to connect with your dd.

Venus, I disagree with your point about availability. Unless you are there how can you be available to listen, to love and to spend time with your child? A few hours a week is probably not enough. Nowhere near. Lets be honest. Children need to spend time with their parents on a daily basis. Both need to be available. It is not about clocking up the hours with 'quality' time with children, but connection that is key, agreed.

I don't think there are many SAH mothers who have time to be on their phones or have the luxury of being bored, they are too busy caring for their children!

Switching off your emails, turning off your mobile and focusing on the child is probably what we all need to do more of in today's world.

How does her brother cope? Some kids are more likely than others to cry at drop off/pick up times, it doesn't mean they haven't had a good time the rest of the time. It could well be that she is feeding off your anxiety and guilt and so is crying because she knows she'll get a reaction from you.

You can't and shouldn't stop work because of this, you are just as important as your daughter. What does their father do? Is he in the picture? Are there any strains in your relationship that might be making her anxious or that means you can't get him to do more? If he is around then I think he should step up and get more involved (maybe get him to be the last to leave in the morning/first home in the evening for a bit to break this cycle). If he's not around then you just need to grit your teeth and see if things calm down a bit now with the au pair (I'd agree having childcare in the home should make things a bit easier).

How old is the au pair? Is this her first position as an au pair. I'm a bit concerned that she didn't do anything when your daughter was upset, it should be possible for her to distract the kids if need be.

Also, I'd say that your daughter seems a bit more upset about this than normal so is there anything happened in your personal life (e.g. grandparent dying, friend moving away) or at school (not settling with a new teacher, bullying) that might be affecting her.

How about love bombing her at the weekend and doing something she loves together (son with his father or a relative or friend)? And how about after school clubs etc, is there anything she is interested in that would feel more like a fun thing for her rather than childcare for you (e.g. my kids school has football, dancing, choir etc after school, the DDs do football until 6pm, great for me and for them)?

Venus speaks a lot of sense, if you would be unhappy not working then that would be far worse for your DC than you working and them having quality childcare. I went slightly very crazy on maternity leave and we were all a lot happier when I got back to work.

I haven't got time to reply in length OP at the moment, other than to say ignore the 'your child should be your priority' guff above. Of course she is, that's why you're asking for advice!

It would be no good at all to your dd for you to stop work and feel anxious, resentful, depressed, worried, frustrated and bored. Not to mention poor. It would be the worse thing that you could do, from what you've said.

My dd was very like this until she turned 8, when she's had a surge of independence and confidence. Fingers crossed you'll get there soon too.

Love bombing really works.

We tried it when our dd was going through a clingy patch. Google it (I wouldn't recommend you waste the money ordering the book)
It is a simple idea. Set aside a weekend just for the two of you, with your DD or DS choosing the whole thing from start to finish, they decide everything from what you eat, where you stay and what you do. It is great fun and very bonding.
It did work wonders for us and we try schedule in every few months. It is amazing having that time with them, and your dd will cherish it.
Well done venus for suggesting the idea, it does work.

That was the reason I became a SAHM. My daughter was miserable at nursery and it hadn't improved after nearly a year. However, I knew I wouldn't find it claustrophobic (I have good friends who would, just like you!). I also resented my working mother but mainly because she was often too tired to spend time with me. However she too had no option and I got used to it.

I'd give it a bit of time to settle down before making any drastic changes. If you feel you'd resent being at home then don't do it. There's no point in you being miserable too!

Christina, what is 'guff' as you call it a very lame comment. What is complete 'guff' is the line about if you the mother is happy, the child is happy. That is utter twaddle. Clearly the child is NOT happy, the mother could be ecstatically happy that doesn't change the child's experience does it??

Happy mother does not always equal happy child! And is a very selfish point of view.

Thanks so much for all these comments.

My DD IS certainly my priority. Having said that, I do have other priorities, one of which is to earn a salary and another is to maintain my sanity and own identity. I do have a DH - he earns more than me and works longer hours, in a much more stressful position. I suppose we could just about manage if I gave up, if we had to. But on the other hand if I did, I would not get back into my current line of work (which is highly competitive). This is a personal thing, but the pressure on him to provide would increase dramatically, his job is not that secure, and I would not want to make him solely responsible for the rest of our lives for bringing home the money.

So, I will continue to work and I am struggling, really, because somehow we have to find a way to accommodate these different priorities, which works for the whole family.

I would also underline that as I said, although I do have a full-time contract, I genuinely do spend a fair amount of time with my DD. The problem I think we have at the moment is even if, say, I only worked two days, my DD would still be upset on the days that I worked. The conflict I am feeling is that sometimes I feel nothing would be quite enough for her, and I don't know how to deal with that.

But the idea on love bombing is really, really helpful - I will definitely look at that. Interesting Christina about the age thing. Got to rush off now (to pick up my DD!) but thanks again for all comments.

Ilovemybabygirls, the guff was you saying that OP's children aren't her priority.

She has indeed confirmed that they are.

Is it possible to switch your hours so you go in earlier and have after school time more often?

Or my other contradictory suggestion is to just carry on and be consistent as far as possible, and make the times you are there good.

Ilovemybabygirls

Please stop with the saccharine guilt tripping. You might have the luxury of staying at home and being able devote yourself 100% to your children but a lot of people can't do that. A lot of people don't want to either and that is also fine. I could have financially, but cant imagine anything more tedious than being a SAHM, it would not have been good for my children if I had been as I would have been miserable. On the other hand some people absolutely adore it and thrive in that lifestyle and are completely fulfilled, one is not "better" than the other. Devoting yourself 100% to your kids is also not healthy, they are all of our top priority of course, but it's important for parents to have their own lives and identity as well.

OP

I think this is partially age, all of mine (6) went through a very clingy stage from 7-9ish, just coming out of it now with the youngest two but I don't know if that's a thing or just my kids. Aside from that, I agree with everything VenusRising said.

As well as love bombing have a look at talking through her feelings with her and really listening to how she feels.

"You don't like saying goodbye to me"
"You wish you could spend all day everyday with me"

She may just the type of child that would have the same behaviour even if you didn't work! She would still have to separate from you and go to school - you would just get the tears there instead. I know a fair few dc like that even at the end of their primary years. They manage fine socially school but would be far happier to be at home with Mum & Dad.

i am with christina et al....your dd is of course a priority to you, but so should her brother and your job as that puts a roof over their heads and food on the table.
I am sorry but we live in a way too child centred society. When i was little ( 44 today ) parents had their lives and children fitted in. They were not the number one and only priority parents had.
Now your dd is possibly insecure but also possible well aware of the effect it is having on you and is milking it for all its worth.
I have been in fulltime work throughout my dds lives and had similar tricky relationship with dd1 , felt endlessly guilty for not being there enough or so i thought, endlessly guilty over childcare, and endlessly guilty for liking my job.
I turned it about when i realised that actually life is not perfect for any of us, we make choices , children have to learn that sometimes it isnt what they want but your dd is not being badly treated/abused/neglected.

I say stick with au pair, keep consistent messages about how much you love her, and how you are a family and a team and you all have to be in this together and make a diary or wall chart with special treats chosen for weekends ( but not just for her , for her siblings and you ) .

it gets better, my very spikey/miserable daughter turned into the most delightful teenager who is lovely company, cannot do enough to help around house etc etc....and says she is so proud of her mummy for having an important job.

It's was around the age of 8 that I missed my mum the most and it didn't die down either, I really wish it did! My mum used to say 'why can't you see I'm doing this for the family!' But we all said we'd prefer to live in a smaller house and have our mum and dad at home more than have the bigger house. I think what did t help was that I had her as a stay at home mum in the beginning and lived i. A smaller house, then they bought a busy and I still say to this day, money ruined our family and closeness. My brothers and I still often say how much we preferred our life in the beginning years, it's only now as we have got older and mum and dad work less that we have our 'old' family bond back x

I feel like this sometimes OP, but DS is now 9 and it has got a bit easier:

I would also underline that as I said, although I do have a full-time contract, I genuinely do spend a fair amount of time with my DD. The problem I think we have at the moment is even if, say, I only worked two days, my DD would still be upset on the days that I worked. The conflict I am feeling is that sometimes I feel nothing would be quite enough for her, and I don't know how to deal with that.

My opinion is that it can tough on DC's when both parents are working long hours. I think what you get when you do the pick ups and drop offs is the easy intimacy and chats about their day and their homework and it's hard to replicate that when they're tired in the evenings or just up in the mornings.

I'm p/t so I can pick DS up most school finishes. It's completely ruined my career for now, but then I know DS and I know that he wouldn't cope with being in after school 5 days a week. I'm already seeing if I can try to get a student in for a few weeks next summer rather than making him go to holiday club. Some DCs are completely happy there so it's not an issue.

I think your idea of getting in house care is sound. I wonder however if you might be better with a nanny rather than an au pair. It sounds like your DD needs emotional support and care and that might be better provided by a more experienced professional - also would potentially mean more consistency in the longer term for your DCs.

Hi all and thanks again for your comments. So I think this is partly a problem of time and partly something else. Re: time, I drop off the kids at school about twice a week, and pick up at home time (3.30) at least once. They go to clubs after school and I also often pick them up from those. So, I think I see them in the week about as much as someone who works three days a week. Which doesn't seem excessive to me? So yes, I could reduce my hours further, but I wouldn't put myself in the category of someone who works excessively long hours. I am also around a lot during most of the holidays. By the way my DS is totally fine about it - which contributes towards my relationship with him being a little bit more straightforward, which then throws my relationship with DD into relief I guess.

The problem as I see it is that my DD and I seem to be setting up this cycle of recrimination/guilt. Random and redjellybean, you sort of got to the issue, which is that to some extent my DD seems to know that she can make me feel rubbish and is willing to use that. That's not to say that she isn't upset but I don't THINK she's always quite as upset as she makes out. But that leaves me in a dilemma, whether to try to encourage her not to make a fuss (heartless though?) or ... what to do? That's why it's complicated, I feel like we're almost involved in some sort of power struggle (I know that sounds a bit mad, I just can't think of better words) or something else that isn't quite healthy. And perhaps this feeling is exacerbated because at the moment everything seems to be a battle ground - including bedtime, and what she will eat (almost nothing).

Incidentally, I grew up with four siblings and a very devoted mum who never worked outside the home. Essentially we all had a broadly similar upbringing but as adults we have different levels of happiness, different feelings towards our childhood, and entirely different attitudes towards work outside the home. So I really don't think this is entirely a work/not work thing, it's more about the particular dynamic between me and my DD.

My niece used to struggle with her mum working. She only did 2 days a week as a teacher but whenever her mum returned after the holidays she really struggled.

My dad is now 15 and she likes me to be around for when she gets home now. She needs some time to chat about her day as she's in exam year and has found it quite pressured.

You just need to reassure your dd that you will be home later and will sit down and have some time with her. How is she once you are gone? Does she settle easily with the AP?

Rachel

I think you are being rather judgemental and are clearly feeling very defensive about your own life, as you know nothing at all about me or mine. It might surprise you to know I do work, and have done for years...so if I were you I would not be jumping to any conclusions.

Every single mother in this country has the choice, we don't live in Africa or a third world country. We can choose fortunately for us. We can always choose whether we work around the clock, and do not see our children for the finer things in life, or we sacrifice our financial outlook and spend time with our children. There is nothing wrong with either choice, but to say SAHP are somehow boring or unfulfilled is entirely incorrect. It is for most mothers the best years of their lives. For others it might be boring, but if you are going to have children surely you have invest some of yourself into them, and make time for them. It is completely selfish to bring children into the world but not be there for them, what is point of having them at all?

Ilove I totally agree with what you are saying.

Thank you don't look back, I am genuinely feeling quite animated that we are all lead to believe that somehow there is no choice, we are just being carried along with the sea of life, we all have choices and can control what is happening in our lives.

OP

Thank you for your replies, only you know what is best for your child. When you are very old and grey and nearing the end of life what do you think your biggest regrets will be? Will you say I wish I had worked longer, harder, made much more money, had a brilliant career. Or will you wish you had spent time with both of your children? Enjoyed their childhood. We have all learnt now it really is impossible to have it all, even the most optimistic of us know this is simply not possible. It doesn't matter which one you would privately choose, but important to know what is really right for you and your family.

I think for the record, it is outrageous that we have to choose at all!!! It makes my blood boil that OP has to 'choose' between her child who needs her and a career that she has worked for and deserves. What we all need to do is try and change things! It is simply NOT good enough. OP you should have your job AND time with your children, why the hell not? SAHP should be able to be at home without the pressure of feeling like you need to be elsewhere to be valued.

The circle for guilt and lack of value is getting us nowhere, and we must change it...all of us. We have to, for our children's sake.