relationship with 7 year old DD already so complicated

[nojumperup]

Hello everybody. I am having a rubbish day and wondering if anyone has any similar experience to me.

I have a 7yo DD and needless to say I love her more than anything in the world. But it seems as though our relationship is already so complicated. The issues mainly stem around childcare I guess, although could be extended to her need for me generally, which if I am completely honest I sometimes find claustrophobic. I have always worked full time. I work because I want to and need to, financially. Having said that, I am lucky enough to work in a very flexible job, so although I work everyday, I am often able to drop my DD at school, and I pick her up at least once a week. I spent quite a lot of time at home over the summer too, for example.

Anyway, the point is that I feel (she makes me feel??) terribly guilty about leaving her. Until recently she was in wraparound care (with her brother) but I felt that was leading to a very long day for all of us, so we have now got a lovely au pair. But when I left for work this morning, she (my DD)was crying and terribly upset, leaving me also upset and our poor au pair not knowing what to do. This has been the same for years as childcare has always been an issue - no matter what solution I try, it's basically not OK as she makes clear that she wants to be with me.

The thing is, I feel guilty about this, but also if I'm honest a bit resentful and angry. I want to tell her that I am doing my best, and it's not fair for her to make me feel like this ... but I know she's only 7!! I feel as though our relationship is getting quite complex, and I want to nip it in the bud. But the trouble is, for her the only solution would be mummy not going to work and that's just not an option. Even having cut back the amount I have has had a profound impact on my career prospects. That's fine with me, but it would be difficult to do even less and stay in this job. Anyone else been here? Sorry this is long!

We can afford our mortgage without me working. Actually, we can afford everything without me having to work at all. We have no debt. I choose to work (pt) because I want to. My emotional needs are as important as those of my DC. No more, no less. And yes, some children can be very manipulative, if they're not crying about one thing it's another.
The only non working parent I know has had no end of problems with her DC as they've grown, almost teenagers, they have her running round in circles after them and struggled terribly with authority when they started school, joining clubs, etc.
Everyone is entitled to their own point of view, but having older children now, who have learned from early on to accommodate the needs of others, they quite rightly see themselves as a piece of a jigsaw in family life and wider society rather than the whole.

Bloody hell I seem to have stumbled into the fifties. Jeremy's power is all reaching!

Op its shit to feel like this but I definitely wouldn't give up working - your dd will grow up and move on from this and you may have binned your career and security for something that could have been solved.

I did have to give up work as one of mine is disabled, but I am now back and part time - it's hard and I've had to try to find childcare that works. Leaving would be a last resort for me now but I can see it would be easier. Lots of children have positive experiences in childcare - talk to your au pair - maybe they can get a cup and tea bag and spoon ready for when you come home? Maybe Dd could be the last one to give you a kiss when you leave or you could show her a photo you have of her to take to work?

OP can your DH reduce his hours at all? It strikes me from what you have said, that he is not available for the DC much at all. You sound like you are around a fair bit, so maybe your DH needs to see if he can reduce his hours, even one day a week might help? Could it be that your DD just needs a parent around more, and not necessarily you?

I have to be brutally honest with you. I think your dd is DESPERATE for your love and for your attention, she misses you, she wants to be with you. As her mother and at this age (she is still so young) you are the centre of her universe, she badly needs to feel both loved and looked after by you. All the wraparound childcare in the world is not going to feel the void your child is experiencing. Sorry to tell you. It sounds like her heart is breaking....and she is really struggling.

I'm not working atm, I'm home all the time with my dd. This post still turned my stomach. What a load of crap.

When you are very old and grey and nearing the end of life what do you think your biggest regrets will be? Will you say I wish I had worked longer, harder, made much more money, had a brilliant career. Or will you wish you had spent time with both of your children? Enjoyed their childhood

Hate this sort of emotive nonsense. At my age (approaching 50) the people I know with the biggest regrets are those who gave up their earning power to raise children and spend those beautiful hours nurturing their children - and then a few years down the line encountered divorce, illness, death, leaving them as single parents, in one case virtually penniless, and with very little means of supporting their children. They struggle hugely and bitterly regret the choices they made when their children were young and nobody had a thought in their minds about being widowed or abandoned.

OP I hope you are ok and not drowning in the tidal wave of motherhood and apple pie on this thread. You can be a full time working parent and a great parent - I know I am . But you might need to reset your dynamic with your DD - I think you suspect some of this is her way of getting your attention - she can and should have your attention but not as a reward or compensation for the fact that you work. Give her attention and love (as I'm sure you do anyway) at other times and cut short all the drama around your work.

Hi all, some really great advice and support here, so many thanks again. Really like the thoughts on more routine, regularity, and on keeping calendars. And again, on special outings for just me and my DD, I think she'd really love that. I should just say that our au pair is great (it's just that she has only been with us for a few days so it's quite new for her). One of the things that is happening with my DD is that she actually DOES like our au pair (for example, this morning she got in a sulk because I was going to work but then she forgot to maintain it, and started really laughing and engaging with our au pair who was plaiting her hair, before realising that I was still around and quickly putting the sulk back on)!!

The questions about my DH are interesting. He leaves the house around 7.30am and returns about 8pm. We have an argument I would say c. every 6 months where I ask for just a bit more help more during the week. And then don't get it. However, his job is very demanding, he leads a big team, and he insists that essentially he cannot be more available than he is, at risk of losing his job. I tend to believe him because he works for a ridiculous organisation. I wish he would work elsewhere .... but that's another story. His view on my DD is though that she milks the guilt factor and that I should not give in to it. Easier said than done when you are not the one subject to it! Anyway, one reason we got the au pair was to try to avoid this argument but it is evident that of course, the au pair can help massively with logistics and is also great in other ways, but she can't replace me for my DD! Clearly.

I don't feel too guilt tripped about the earlier posts re: the extent to which I am letting my DD down by working at all. I want to do the best I can for her, but that also involves doing the best I can for my family and to some extent myself. I have made 'sacrifices' in my career in order to do so, but hope that I will have time in future to make up for this.

Well it shows you that some/much of the sulking is a way of gaining attention so tbh stop pandering to it but give her attention at other times. Hard balance to get right and it takes time to change the habits you both got into.

I would recommend reading "How to talk to kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" I don't think it's about you working, I think it's just her wanting your attention and using that as a way to demand it IYSWIM.

I haven't read all of the thread as I was so utterly insulted by ilove's comments.

I work full time, not for 'the finer' things but to keep a roof over our heads! I work so my DD has clothes, a warm place to live and food. I can assure you no one else will provide especially the government, and actually why should they?!
Op, most posters on here have it said it better than I can, don't feel guilty for working. It's about finding a solution that helps your relationship with your DD.

iloves comments are I am one of those single mothers so I guess its o.kay that I work?

Op I get the guilt trip from my dd from time to time as well, tonight she said she hates the after school club which made me feel bad. However dd (9yo) does also get that if she wants to do clubs, have nice holidays etc then the money has to come from somewhere.

I think you have to explain to her why working is important, point out that you enjoy work and that the money you earn is for all your benefit. I think even a 7yo will understand this. Make the most of the evenings and weekends and plan in things that she will enjoy.

FWIW your relationship doesn't sound any more complicated than any other mum and daughter relationship! I wonder if you are projecting a bit here? Working is something to be proud of but if you are feeling guilty then your dd will pick up on it being something you are feeling ashamed about iyswim?

Many people choose boarding for the dc when childcare/ emotions get complicated and it can provide wraparound care and allow parents to continue with their careers.

wotoodoo .
You are seriously recommending that the OP send her child away to boarding school because their emotions are complicated?

Think OP is looking for more subtle, middle ground solutions than either give up work and never leave her daughter's side and send her DD away from home.

For me if I didn't go to work (and it's only part time) and get a bit space from them I'd be a shit parent bored and on my phone all the time. I'd also be miserable dependent on someone else for money and the stress that brings for him to. Otoh I changed my job to fit in with school hours as my dc hated going toothed childminder and there wasn't another option and school holidays were a nightmare but luckily they stayed with family for a lot of that.

What sort of stuff do you do on a weekend? Is there anyway you have one on one time with each child once a week?

I think if you give in to her she will then feel even more insecure as adults are supposed to be in charge.

Op sounds like you are making sensible and caring decisions for your family

I do resent generally that men just get to say..oh I can't possibly change my working hours. It really isn't true and it's about women constantly being the one to make a sacrifice and take on the ongoing emotional burden of making sure childcare fits a child needs

Persp I didn't say I would! But plenty of women do decide boarding is preferable to having to deal with dds of their dc when circumstances permit and aged 7 is the earliest boarding schools take them.

Many people think boarding is best for the child. My dsis worked at a top girls' boarding school where it wasn't uncommon for a dd to be sobbing for her dm and when the school rang the dm she would say isn't there somebody who could deal with her dd like the school nurse or house mistress? Sometimes the dd only needed a cuddle.

After months of the parent not being there emotionally the child learns not to depend on the parent and the child gets emotional support predominantly from their peer group or from whatever pastoral care the school offers instead.

It's an option however controversial.

Honestly, I agree with Ilove

There's so much anger and vitriol on here because people are horrified by the idea of not meeting their children's needs - understandable. This is it, really, there isn't a clear win. Yes, the OP's daughter wants her at home. Wrap around care or an au pair is rubbish by comparison, to put it politely. But if the OP does that, it's basically her working life up in smoke.

Don't dismiss children's feelings or pretend that childcare is as good as having a parent on hand - it isn't. Be more aware and realistic about all the feelings involved. OP, you resent the hell out of your seven year old making you feel bad! The key thing is to find ways not to be angry at her. There isn't a clear answer. And you say "we could survive" if you didn't work. So you are choosing to. You are entitled to choose to. That is genuinely your right. But that is also genuinely choosing not to be at home with your child. This is exactly the same choice your DH is making, but I bet he's not full of guilt and anger at it, because traditional society demands the OP gives up her identity and life for childcare, not him. But ffs don't blame the child for noticing both parents have chosen Not Her. Intense time together (have heard of love bombing but don't know much about it) sounds good.

People will come on now and say I'm some anti-feminist maniac or whatever when nothing is further from the truth. The situation sucks. Start from the position of clarity - own your choices. The only way I've found to live with decisions is to try and analyse them as coldly as I can before I act. But the number of people who are ready to push the child's feelings under the carpet on here because it's not what they want to hear... It won't help. A logical decision can be explained logically. "If I stop work now, I'll never be able to start again. Then when you grow up and, I hope, have your own exciting and fulfilling life, I'll be left without being able to do what I want. I have to find ways that allow me to show you how VASTLY I love you, and let us spend time together, and also don't mean losing the part of me which is my working self."
Or something like that.

I will be honest , it is one of my biggest regrets that I prioritised work over my children and that I used to leave them with an au pair and walk away from the house with them going MUMMEEE MUUMEEEE
Later they told me that the au pair was not very kind which just made it worse.

Horrible really.

They are little for such a short time.

We had one person that turned out to be not at all great, and very like Lisbeth's situation we only discovered a little while later from our children that there had been issues. We regret making a poor choice in our carer, but I don't regret working, and although the final child care option we chose was for dh to be at home for a while that was largely because he wanted a break from work.

He had an earlier SAHD stint too when our children were younger which they all have very fond memories of. I think that's lovely and have no issue that that wasn't me. But then I'm not very maternal. Indeed I did a couple of gender tests the other day which both informed me that I am in fact a man . To me that just reinforced the very strong societal message that all women must want to spend time with their children, making it potentially very hard for women that parent in different ways.

I think you need to acknowledge your DD's perfectly legitimate feelings. To own your own choices. And to do your best to meet your DD's needs (globally). Getting cross with her for missing you is cruel.

OP I have been a sahm, a wohm and now I work from home.

I agree a routine and planning things is always good. Dd (I only worked out of the home from ds being 6-14 months so he doesn't remember) found it hard sometimes. I found it hard sometimes. But I wouldn't change a thing. Dd is a well adjusted happy 11 year old. If anyone told me she would be different if I had stayed at home for longer, I wouldnt care. I like her the way she is, I don't want her different.

Also as you said a lot of is put on and she is acting more upset than she is (ds does this) , giving in won't help. It's sends the message that if she is unhappy and kicks off you will give in.

I am with the poster that says she was brought up knowing that the family unit comes first. We have done that, sometimes dd comes first, sometimes ds or me/dh.

People feel the need to guilt trip working mums as though all its takes to be a good mum is to be a sahp. Well it doesn't. There are plenty of rubbish sahp out there.

Fact is, what a parent decides to do re working is no one else's business. We all need to stop judging each other.

There are some ludicrous and ill thought out comments here about how the op should put her children before work.

I love my job. It makes me as happy as my children do and I also contribute to wider society by doing it. If women stepped back fully into the home or restricted themselves to school hours work then we would be back in Victorian times.

Children through the ages have had to fit in around competing needs of all the people in the family -and the needs of the wider world.

I admire sah parents it's great if you want to do it but you shouldnt assume that is the only rewarding path for all women and their families everywhere.

I cried sometimes when my own mother was at work but she had an amazing and fulfilling career which overall was better for us than her catering yo my every whim and abandoning all personal fulfilment for me.

The op sees much more of her child than most working fathers. And she is a better happier parent for her choices.

Laughable to suggest working is always a greedy financial choice in order to have more luxuries.

For me work is a necessity for my sanity and for my own individual path on the world. I am constantly trying to find the right balance to ensue my children are happy as are all working women

Hi, very difficult situation

Your DD sounds bright and quite able to articulate her feelings so have you tried explaining things to her simply? Eg show her your life with your income and life without. Love bombing has always appealed to me as I also work FT, but I'm a LP.

Im not suggesting giving a 7yo a breakdown of the household finances but would she be prepared to give up all her clubs, trips out etc to have you at home all the time?
I also wonder if because she is collected by au pair if she feels she's missing out on after school play dates. Could you arrange one a week for when you collect her?

She may find having a timetable of what is happening when each week reassuring?

I'm not sure that many posters have tried to 'push the daughter's feelings under the carpet' have they? And OP certainly hasn't.

The general tone seems to be to acknowledge the needs and feelings of all involved and try to find ways of meeting as many needs as possible and enabling all parties to express their feelings.

It's perfectly possible to live with and say to a very young child "I understand that you don't want to go to nursery/school and want to stay at home. I sometimes feel like that about work. The problem is that I need to go to work today and we all have to do things that we don't feel like doing sometimes." and variations of.

I did it for years when my children were young. OP's reasons for wanting to work are perfectly legitimate, and they matter too.

Thank you somekindofdeliciousbiscuit for your post, and others who seem to see this for what it is...

I will only say this once, I am NOT guilt tripping working mothers, I work for ffs, and I am fully entitled to an opinion. That opinion is that children are happier and more secure when they are cared for by their parents.

We take the decision completely to stay or leave our children, and ALL the others we have made.

Some SAHP make HUGE sacrifices to stay with their children, but you do not see them on here saying so, because they are afraid of the back lash from the mottley crew of posters on here which can not bear to have the debate openly and honestly.

An au pair/nanny/nursery can NEVER replace a mother no matter how good they are. It just a job to them, and most of the time they could not really care less, it pays the bills. The carer does not love your child like you do, or want to invest in their wellbeing, or their future anything like the same way that you do. They can not give you back your child's childhood in a parcel at age 18, the shared memories are lost forever. Children are small for such a tiny amount of time, and yet you can not suspend your career for just a few years for them? Do they not deserve to be close to you? Be with you? To learn from you?
How can an au pair possibly be that interested in your kids, she is on low wages, working long hours and probably hoping to move on to something more exciting.

If I could wave a magic wand and provide every mother with the means and ability to be at home and enjoy their children, and work and have a fulfilling career I would! But AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, it is not the reality is it?

There are some people on here that should never have had children in the first place, if they didn't want to be parents and simply wanted to 'outsource' the hard work and painstaking care, not for financial reasons but simply because they are too lazy and selfish, why the hell did you bother? Just a damaging, lifeless, loveless experience for your children.

One thing for sure is there are nowhere near enough posters on here who are interested in making the momentous changes we need to make, so that that none of us needs to choose between work and our kids, if we used all of this anger and bile on here to implement better rights for mothers working or not, we would be a much better place than we are right now, and the world be a much happier place for our children.

Nojumperup, I hope you have found some posts on here helpful, I am not entirely sure now the debate has taken a different track, the old chestnut that boils on and on has moved away from your initial post.

On a personal note to you, I know you were looking for reassurance more than solutions I think, and perhaps the pain of my mother leaving me day after day when I was young came through heavily in my post (I was a very sensitive child it has to be said) It was not intended to make anyone feel guilty, especially not you. I was speaking up for your dd, and for children in general, who seem to have taken a complete back seat within this conversation. I work too, and had to find ways to manage it, so that it did not make me feel like s* and so will you. We all have bad days working or at home. I wish you and your family well, you seem to be a very bright and caring mother so either way regardless of what is posted on here helpful or not, your dd will be just fine :)