relationship with 7 year old DD already so complicated

[nojumperup]

Hello everybody. I am having a rubbish day and wondering if anyone has any similar experience to me.

I have a 7yo DD and needless to say I love her more than anything in the world. But it seems as though our relationship is already so complicated. The issues mainly stem around childcare I guess, although could be extended to her need for me generally, which if I am completely honest I sometimes find claustrophobic. I have always worked full time. I work because I want to and need to, financially. Having said that, I am lucky enough to work in a very flexible job, so although I work everyday, I am often able to drop my DD at school, and I pick her up at least once a week. I spent quite a lot of time at home over the summer too, for example.

Anyway, the point is that I feel (she makes me feel??) terribly guilty about leaving her. Until recently she was in wraparound care (with her brother) but I felt that was leading to a very long day for all of us, so we have now got a lovely au pair. But when I left for work this morning, she (my DD)was crying and terribly upset, leaving me also upset and our poor au pair not knowing what to do. This has been the same for years as childcare has always been an issue - no matter what solution I try, it's basically not OK as she makes clear that she wants to be with me.

The thing is, I feel guilty about this, but also if I'm honest a bit resentful and angry. I want to tell her that I am doing my best, and it's not fair for her to make me feel like this ... but I know she's only 7!! I feel as though our relationship is getting quite complex, and I want to nip it in the bud. But the trouble is, for her the only solution would be mummy not going to work and that's just not an option. Even having cut back the amount I have has had a profound impact on my career prospects. That's fine with me, but it would be difficult to do even less and stay in this job. Anyone else been here? Sorry this is long!

ILove the OP has said that her DH does not have a secure job. In that case she would be mad to stop work or reduce her hours. You might work but you certainly are sounding like you believe women (no mention of the father in your posts and his responsibility to give of himself to his children) should put their children before everything else (like security, self fufillment, selfish things like that ). The OP has said it would be very difficult for her to reduce her hours so respect that and either come up with positive suggestions that the OP can do in the time she has available or step away from the thread.

It's a pity that this has become an issue giving you such massive guilt, not that that's unusual for women. I haven't seen you say that your husband feels guilty about working such long hours - I know you've said he has a stressful job, but from your OP it sounded almost like you were a single parent, as you can see from the replies. What can your DH do to support you and your DD through this? It shouldn't all be on you. All the replies acting as if it is, and telling you to give up your job altogether, are also putting it all on you. I work, and not for the 'finer things in life' because I enjoy my work and find it fulfilling. If I thought my child was suffering, I would sit down with my DH and we would find a way of tackling it together.

Could you have a conversation with your DD about this and ask her what, short of you giving up work, would help her? Maybe look for something you and she could do evenings or weekends together. And I agree the au pair hasn't quite done what she should have so far.

Ilovemybabygirls, do you sincerely believe that 'every single mother in this country has a choice...we can always choose whether we work around the clock?'

If so, you sound very, very out of touch with the realities of modern life for many people.

Op indeed wants to 'be there' for her children, or she wouldn't have started this thread, so ridiculous hyperbole like your last sentence are a bit superfluous to the debate.

OP, I was going to say earlier that I don't think childcare is the issue, but your relationship with your dd (based partly on my own experience).

I realised a while ago that my primary job in this regard isn't to either try to please her all the time or 'stick to my guns' but help her manage her strong attachment, feelings of being out of control and help her towards independence.

Not easy, but children are so different. I also have a ds who, literally from the moment he was born, I have had a more straightforward relationship with.

I don't think this is about your hours which do not sound excessive but, as you intimate, about the dynamic between you and your DD.

Of course she'd like you at home more. But thats not on offer in any realistic sense and I doubt she's really in any deep need. It sounds as though really she's discovered this interaction with you which wrong foots you and makes you feel guilty and means that you respond with care and attention for her. But actually she's 7 and managing without you at school all day so fundamentally she's fine but has got into this habit.

Of course after school she's tired and would love a cuddle with mummy but she's hardly being evacuated! I would stick with what you are doing and stop feeding the drama around this if you can. Go brisk and breezy whenever it comes up. Let her see there's no more to be squeezed out of this one. Brief the au pair to be brisk and breezy too. Then love bomb her at other times. Have days away just the two of you, walks together in the evening, that sort of thing.

Btw I'm a single parent and work full time. My mother was a single parent who worked full time. We all survived and thrived. Guilt is not helpful in this situation. You have nothing to feel guilty about and if anything, it's contributing to the problem by making it difficult for you to close this drama down.

No, I'm not defensive of my own life Ilove, I have a wonderful life. I don't know what you mean by "If I were you" either, what exactly would the repercussions be for me?

Did you actually read what I wrote? I said for me it wouldn't have been the right choice but it is for many and that one is not better than the other . And where did I say exactly that you should spend no time on your children and only yourself? "Devoting yourself 100% to your kids is also not healthy, they are all of our top priority of course, but it's important for parents to have their own lives and identity as well." - is what I actually said.

I have to be brutally honest with you. I think your dd is DESPERATE for your love and for your attention, she misses you, she wants to be with you. As her mother and at this age (she is still so young) you are the centre of her universe, she badly needs to feel both loved and looked after by you. All the wraparound childcare in the world is not going to feel the void your child is experiencing. Sorry to tell you. It sounds like her heart is breaking....and she is really struggling.

How is that not absolute guilt tripping given the OP's problem? Someone comes on here with this kind of problem, and that is your first response?A load of armchair psychology and heart string pulling assumptions?

Also, not every mother in this country has a choice, I am fortunate and can choose to work and when and for how much. There are countless women in this country who have to work, full time, long hours, no negotiation. What planet are you on?

Rachel

I am sorry that you are so rude and defensive. It is clearly an issue for you that some mothers simply prefer to raise and care for their own children and yet you are not able to do so for whatever reason.

I am not 'absolutely' guilt tripping' the op, what a loaded paragraph! Read the rest of my posts and you may have a better view. I was simply pointing out that if OP were to reduce her hours or change her job she would have more time for her child, and her anguish may be greatly reduced, this is an intention to help OP find a solution and to talk through her worries, it is hardly a crime. How dare you insinuate it is! It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that this may help....it is a child we are talking about. Not a pet rabbit!

SAHP have their own identity Rachel. It is bl rude to allude to anything else, they also have a sense of great achievement, happiness and joy. Believe it or not most enjoy their days very much, and feel a great sense of contentment. Regardless of your dismissive attitude. All of which I am sure you will pour scorn on. I am sorry your life is so obviously awful, but do not drag down the OP or the conversation with your bitterness. Some of us ARE happy, some of us are CONTENT and you will have to live with it.

I think you will find that we have a welfare state that steps in to pay for food and bills if the going becomes too tough or we choose to spend the early years with our children, so this idea that you HAVE to work is completely and utterly deluded, and I could very well insult you back but I won't. Lets raise the bar a little and just look at the facts, even you have admitted you to 'choose' to work. I rest my case.

'this idea that you HAVE to work is completely and utterly deluded'

I shall tell my mortgage lender, local authority, the utility companies, my home and car insurance and Mr Aldi that first thing.

I wouldn't get too complacent about that welfare state either. It'll be dismantled bit by bit if the government gets its way. And as for 'facts', they simply can't be asserted on an issue like this: there is no one answer or one right route for women. Some are better off at home, some are not. And their happiness is an issue as well as the child's. Incidentally Ilove, is there no obligation on the OP's husband in all this, or are only women expected to sacrifice everything for their children?

If I chose to give up my job tomorrow to be a sahm the welfare state wouldn't kick in. We could not afford our mortgage and bills on one wage. We'd have to move to a property too small for our family and I think we'd still struggle on one wage. Believe me, we did all the sums and we cannot afford for me to ba a sahm. I think it's right I wouldn't currently qualify for help from the state. I am able to work (and there is plenty of work on my field), why should the government pay for me to stay at home?

It sounds like you are available a lot, but maybe the days and times vary from week to week? So perhaps your DD isn't quite sure how much she will be seeing you on any given day?

Could you have a clearly visible calendar, marked up in different colours, so that both she and you can see how the next few days are planned. That way she can see when you are picking her up or dropping her off and which days she will get "mummy time". Maybe even add a gold star on everyday for cuddles at bedtime? And maybe schedule in some of the things she does with her dad and the AP, so she starts to build a picture of herself at the centre of a loving and supportive group of adults (rather than you being the sole focus of her needs).
Then talk about the plan for the next day every evening, what story you will read to her at bedtime, the snack she'll have when she gets home etc. etc. so she knows a) that you are planning on coming back b) exactly who will be looking after her and when and c) you will be thinking of her.

She will eventually grow out of it, be patient.

ilove

Oh dear.

"I was simply pointing out..." - what bollocks. Your first post was guilt-tripping bullshit and you bloody know it. And the welfare state will step in stuff is almost funny, except perhaps you actually believe it, in which case it's horrifying. I'm genuinely embarrassed on your behalf at your ignorance.

Ilove, you're being really rude to Rachel, apparently simply because she's politely and articulately disagreeing with you.

OP, the idea about the calendar and the love bombing, plus the brisk and breezy approach, sounds like really good advice to me. Please do ignore all the guilt tripping stuff that some posters are insisting on trying to push.

When you are very old and grey and nearing the end of life what do you think your biggest regrets will be? Will you say I wish I had worked longer, harder, made much more money, had a brilliant career. Or will you wish you had spent time with both of your children? Enjoyed their childhood.

I hate platitudes like this. They get trotted out so easily, but actually, who knows how we'll feel when we look back later. My own mother is now quite old and very grey, and she bitterly regrets having given up her career to be a sahm. She was a great mum to my sister and me, and she did enjoy our childhood when we were small. However, as we got older, she was increasingly bored and unfulfilled at home, she hated being financially dependent on my dad and she started to wonder what her purpose was going to be when we left. Sadly, she had lost her confidence over the years, and she never really got back into any sort of career. Now, she desperately wishes that she had made more of her talents and she feels that she wasted her potential.

It wasn't great for us, either. While it was nice to have her at home when we were little, I became aware of her growing unhappiness by the time I became a teenager, and it was pretty hard to carry the guilt that I felt about the fact that she had put her own life on hold.

I would never want my dd to feel that I had given up my own life in order to look after her, because that creates so much unfair pressure on a child. Besides, I want dd to see that it's entirely possible for a woman to combine a successful and fulfilling career with a happy home life. I have a great relationship with my daughter and a career that I enjoy. I would hate for her to think that she might have to choose between being a good mum and pursuing her own dreams and ambitions.

A happy mum doesn't necessarily make a happy child, but I reckon an unhappy mum will almost certainly pass some of that unhappiness on.

Bloody hell, we are all victims of the system and it is the children that pay, followed by SAHP's how can't resume their career at a later date.

I was very fortunate when my dd was growing up as I was able to find part-time jobs that paid enough for us to survive on. Like another poster above, my mother worked full time and I seriously missed her, so I did not want to do that while my dd was growing up. But unfortunately life is getting harder and my luck is not so common anymore. That being said, my dd wanted me at home and more money coming into the house at the same time.

You know, when I was growing up we were told that, thanks to automation, nobody would be working more than 20 hours a week. I always wondered why that did not happen. Then I heard a programme on the BBC a few years back and apparently it is documented that the powers that be felt that the plebs would get restless if we had too much free time on our hands.

I am sorry for you OP and sorry for your dd. Sometimes we just have to work around what life throws at us.

I've pretty much always worked full time and I've no regrets about that at all. My children are teenagers now and I can't imagine suddenly regretting my choices. Nor do I think that somehow I haven't 'raised them' as I am clearly their mother/parent. Sometimes dh has been a SAHD and sometimes we've had help. Both had their pluses and minuses.

As a child I had a traditional SAHM and WOHD. I didn't/don't have a better relationship with my mother for spending so much more time with us compared to my father who really enjoyed his job. In fact in a lot of ways I had a better relationship with my father. I think it's very simplistic to assume that there is one 'best' way to parent, and talking to my father in the months after his terminal diagnosis he never once said that he regretted working long hours when we were young (oh and he did have some achievement related regrets too). In the longer scheme of things early childhood is a pretty short time period, I think it's unwise to build it up too much.

Anyway OP, I think I'd try and regularise your working week so that your dd has more of a pattern to her life (that will likely be easier for the AP too) and yes to the love bombing thing too. dh and I used to have daddy/mummy days that were a big deal to our children when they were small. Plus they were really fun :) My dd was the questioning one too, and I tended to be fairly breezy. She's always been more emotional and I found when she was small it was better not to be too empathetic as she just got more upset (about all sorts of things). I went down the acknowledge and move on approach. Yes you'd like it if I didn't work, but no that's not going to happen and now lets do something nice together type approach.

OP ignore the mummy martyrs on this thread, they'll be the ones in tears when they have empty nests and no pensions.

I'm of the opinion that it is never too early for children to learn that they are part of a bigger picture and that their wants do not always take priority. In fact, it is positively healthy for parents to to do what suits the whole family rather than fret about meeting the demands of a particular individual, particularly as that child approaches the teen years. Set the ground rules now so to speak.
I will look back on my death bed and be glad I did what made me happy, and if that is working pt rather than staying at home then so be it.
As long as your time with your DD is quality time then don't be manipulated, play the whole work thing down, and ensure your DH spends equal time alone with her on his days off too.

My mum put this whole priority thing in perspective for me - she always said that the family was her priority, not any one individual in it. Sometimes we all had to accommodate her needs, sometimes she ours, or our Dad's. I always felt that was a far more healthy way of looking at it than the 'my children are my absolute no 1 priority' approach, which can be very unbalanced.

OP, I've not been in your situation (but DD is 2 and I work in a demanding job so may be in a few years) but I was wondering whether you have taken some time at the weekend to talk properly to your DD about the situation? To lay out your position when you're both in a calm state of mind, and then stick to it every time, rather than get dragged into emotional confrontations several times a week?

Love the love bombing approach - I sort of already do that a bit with DD but will hang onto it as she grows up!

X-post with CPtart!

OP The conflict I am feeling is that sometimes I feel nothing would be quite enough for her, and I don't know how to deal with that

I have two DDs and my youngest one is much more emotionally complex. I struggle too as she is so good at provoking guilt within me. I don't work full-time but my daughter will still air her disappointment with me, over various things, in a way that can push my buttons. I'm left with the feeling that I will always disappoint her and never quite be as perfect as she would like me to be. I have used up a lot of time and energy trying to 'fix her'.

Like you say though, even if you worked two days, she'd still be upset those two days. All you can do is make every effort to give her lots of your time on weekends and when you're home in the evenings. You need to stop feeling guilty but you also need to allow her to feel the way she feels - just don't react to it in an emotional way.

How incredibly predictable!

How offensive to call SAHP mummy martyrs, what you are truly exposing is your bile and hatred towards mothers who wish to raise their own children. It is incredible that you think it is okay to call other people names simply because they suggested the OP cut back her hours.

In fact there seems to be a whole pack of working mothers on here determined to defend their choices come hell or high water bullying others with their relentless mantra, regardless of the outcomes for their children. Another point of view is not allowed!! NO you must keep quiet about the damage, the emotional needs of the child, this is now called 'manipulating' when a young child cries for her parents! Are you for real? Setting MORE ground rules, being bright and breezy? Keep going regardless of it ripping your family into pieces. FFS. I am not the one who needs a reality check!

Rachel is many things but she is not articulate! And she highlights perfectly the 'eyes shut head in the sand' mentality.

If you wish to take on mortgages for houses you can't properly afford, which forces a spiral of debt and bills this is completely up to you. Working full time is going to force some difficult sacrifices and one of those will be your child.

It is a choice we all make when we have children! If you are not a single mother managing on your own, which is completely different, you have choices!! I think you are choosing lifestyle and money over time with your children. Of course you are. It is not controversial, it is the truth.

With your dd at school full time you would be not doing anything with your dd from 9-3 anyway if you stayed home. So totally giving up work is just a moot point anyway. It's only the time she is actually home you need to address. I think maybe more regular hours would be better, so the routine is always the same. Also make sure she likes the childcare whatever it is, does she like the aupair for example.
Personally I am lucky to have a pt job in school hours term time, but my dd still makes me feel guilty sometimes! The other day she way complaining that it's not fair that she has to do 6 hours at school, but I only do 4!

I think the key for me is consistency and clear expectations. Your DD is at full time school, so working outside of the home in itself is not the problem. Things may well improve if your DD knows what to expect each week, which is where the calendar will really help.

The love bombing and having time for just her and you is also a really good thing to aim for.

Working full time is going to force some difficult sacrifices and one of those will be your child.

So how is my child being "sacrificed", Ilove? And how would her life be better if I didn't work full time?

Tbh, I pity women who think like you do, it must be incredibly limiting to feel that you have to sacrifice your own needs in order to have happy, balanced and emotionally secure kids. If I can do one thing as a parent, I really hope I can raise my daughter not to believe in this kind of shit.

And if you do decide to use a calendar, get her involved in adding items that are important to her, writing it, putting on stickers. Make it a genuine collaboration, so you hand some control over to her (in a way that you feel comfortable with). It may be that she doesn't feel like she has any say in her life at the moment (hence the acting up, for attention and to try and control the situation) so giving her a voice might help.