I have just tipped my 3yo Dd1's supper over her head.

[Orchardbeck]

Not one of my finest moments, I have to say. I'm certainly not proud of the fact. She refused to eat it so I calmly tipped it over her head, gravy, the lot.

Dd1 has been refusing to eat meals for some time, I know it is a control issue as we are having other problems (tantrums, ignoring etc etc). I also have Dd2 who is 9 months and eating well (same meals just mashed or chopped well). She just sits there and either makes cheeky comments or shouts over me. I am at the end of my tether.

I make meals that I know Dd1 loves - she was previously an adventurous eater but now just picks and takes hours to finish a meal, and only with coaxing and threats of no pudding etc.

Tonight was sausage casserole, made with home raised pork and vegetables out of the garden, so not only do I feel bad about doing this, it was particularly painful to see it go to waste like that (DH's face was a picture, but he backed me up whether he agreed with it or not , bless him).

She has now been showered and sent to bed with nothing more to eat. She is very eloquent for her age (3 1/4 yo) and has been from age 1, she used to be so well behaved and a joy to have around.

Obviously I was worried about her reaction to dd2, but she loves her to pieces. She just takes other people off to one side to get their full attention - it can be overwhelming for them sometimes.

I know she is rebelling because I have to dedicate attention to her younger sister, plus my OH is a farmer and works all hours so it's just me looking after them. She goes to pre school 2 mornings per week.

What can I do? Is it a phase? Have I crossed a massive line?

Shouting is abuse FanjofortheMammaries. Children find shouting very upsetting.

Yes arguably.

But I don't think shouting once and pouring food over a wee child's head are comparable.

I think the definition of abuse is sometimes more complex as others have tried to go into on this thread, including some abuse victims.

It definitely could include shouting, though I'd suggest some shouting is not so bad – for example an exasperated "Oh for GOODNESS SAKE get your clothes on!" as a one off is not abuse in the same way as repeated yelling in a child's face that they are useless.

On top of that, abuse can be insidious and creeping. A parent might never lose it, never hit, shout or throw stew but be cold, critical, emotionally neglectful and deeply damaging.

The background level of love, support, general humanity and niceness may have an impact on whether one exasperated episode will do damage. I'm not an expert but what people have said on this thread supports that idea.

By comparable I mean done something you regret in a state of anger and frustration. I mean a comparable state of mind. I know from other threads and RL that some people have said they've slapped a child in that state too, though there's not much mention of that on this thread. But I'm not arguing about each incident and rating their abusiveness – I'm talking about that state of mind, and how we can avoid getting there because there are ways. And actually it's important that if you have that kind of moment, you aren't written off as a parent, and do feel you can come back from it and improve. Everyone who ever loses it temporarily with a 3yo can't be dealt with by SS, practically speaking.

(Obviously I am not talking about "losing it" in a dramatically violent or horrific way - obviously those cases do require SS/police)

I have read your posts but haven't dread every single other comment (I have read the majority).

Clearly you feel awful and know this was the wrong thing to do. This in itself is a positive thing.

I would say that it is very important now that you make sure your daughter is ok about it. I will never forget being held against a wall by my DF and having mashed potato shoved into my face. My DF is a kind and loving father. Not abusive in any way and it never happened again. He was clearly frustrated and angry beyond belief and to be fair I was a little horror about meals. I actually like mashed potato, I was being wilful. But that memory has stuck because it was such a dramatic thing (although I was a bit older than your DD).

I don't say this to make you feel worse I say this to highlight that you're not an abusive mother just because this has happened but you are clearly at the end of your tether, probably shouldn't be the one disciplining/enforcing the rules at mealtimes for a bit and you need to make sure your daughter feels secure and happy about things and knows that what you did was wrong and won't happen again.

orchard

I hope that you feel okay this morning and that your daughter is well.

There is a lot in your post tbh.

Please try not to judge one daughter against the other. Your little one will also go through difficult phases.
Everything you describe regarding your daughter is normal behaviour for a child of her age.
Completely normal. She is not playing a game with you or being involved in control issues. She is three.

She is doing nothing out of the ordinary. She deserves an environment that is stable no matter what her behaviour is like.

It sounds to me as though you may be having some significant difficulties.

Your behaviour is not what I'd expect to see. Many parents have bad days. The question is what makes a bad day into an abusive day?
When and why is that line crossed?
Mostly we see that abusers blame their victims?
Mostly abusers make excuses regarding the circumstances they are dealing with
Mostly abusers seek to find reassurance from external stimuli

Please try to re read your post and look for the clues where you were making excuses for your behaviour.

I think that you feel furiously angry with a little girl. Your control and action consequence understanding needs work with a professional.
Seek help. You can get better coping skills that will help for you and your family.

In the meantime walk away when you feel put upon frustrated or anger rising

But I don't think shouting once and pouring food over a wee child's head are comparable

As ever so much is in the intent, not just the action.
DS2 was v fond of pouring pasta in tomato sauce over his own head when he was little - obviously not abuse but frigging annoying
A parent tipping food over their child head is awful - as others have pointed out because it points at that the parent has lost control over themselves and because the intent is humiliation and 'brow-beating'.

And everything SoFishy said

child's
Gah.

"Some of us have been somewhere comparable"..
They may not have poured the dinner over a child, but they will, almost all of them, have been or almost been at the end of their tether. Which may have only been for 1 evening, like this op maybe was.

I think that is one of the issues here.

The other issue, as I have mentioned, is frightening away other posters in the future.

• who may have done far worse

or may have done other lower level things for longer than 1 evening.

They may not have poured the dinner over a child, but they will, almost all of them, have been or almost been at the end of their tether. Which may have only been for 1 evening, like this op maybe was.

Being at the end of your tether is one thing, crossing the line over to actually losing control is another. Most people would have gone to another room, made a cup of tea and calmed down rather than crossed the line.
I'm not sure if the OP has realised yet how big then leap is between one and the other and how dangerous it is to cross that line into irrational behaviour.

I hoped that mumsnet was here for support and help and advice for all parents, absolutely all of them.
Not for it to be an exclusive club for maybe the better behaved ones.

I thought that it was quite evident that that was what she thought PJ from what she wrote.

I hoped that mumsnet was here for support and help and advice for all parents, absolutely all of them.
Not for it to be an exclusive club for maybe the better behaved ones.

And she has both in this thread. But people have (quit rightly) made it clear what she did was not only "crossing the line", it's passing the danger point and she needs help.

For goodness sake - some people on this thread
My mum (apparently). Tipped a pint of milk on my head in frustration when I was three because I deliberately tipped my bowl of porridge on the floor. I don't remember it at all - I only know what she told me. Anyway aside from never tipping food on the floor again it didn't alter my relationship with my mum. We are very very very close - I know she loves me unconditionally - she is supportive, fantastic and my rock :). She lost her temper - we all do it - Good god how on earn did children survive a 100 years ago :).

passing the danger point WHAT - yes it would have shocked her child but WHAT WHAT WHAT - Perhaps we should all ring SS and have the girl put into care rather than be left with a mother who cooked her a wholesome meal from scratch as she does most days ....,,.,...... Ridiculous

Good god how on earn did children survive a 100 years ago

In very poor conditions suffering from rickets.

I have only read OPs opening thread.
Fucking hell OP. That's abuse. And I write as a mum of DD who is so reluctant to eat she won't even feed herself at 7years old. And I've been through the meal time hell, believe me.
You need help. You could have caused serious burns and resulting scarring. You are irrational bordering on insane.

passing the danger point WHAT - yes it would have shocked her child but WHAT WHAT WHAT - Perhaps we should all ring SS and have the girl put into care rather than be left with a mother who cooked her a wholesome meal from scratch as she does most days ....,,.,......

Yes how stupid to think losing control in anger and pouring food over a child is crossing the danger point.
What if the food was hot, what if it was a cup of coffee that was at hand?
When you have kids you can't cross into irrational behaviour, not even for a second, it is a danger.

Well excuse people for being human and having emotions/feelings ... Would rather that for a mum than a Stepford wife .....

Well excuse people for being human and having emotions/feelings

It's being human and having emotions that have caused this reaction to the thread.

Out of curiosity, what would you do if your husband shouted at you then poured your dinner over your head in anger?

Oh OK 70hoursaweek..
Lets all start beating our kids, swearing at them and pouring hot food over them.
Because hey fuck better this than being a Stepford Mum.
Fucking hell there are some stupid posts on this.

It's called ASSAULT FFS.

OP if I was your partner and I found out about this I'd be calling the GP. Or Social Services.

The food was tepid not hoy - I never condoned beating or swearing - where have I said that - yes you are right some stupid posts on here

I don't even know what to say except how can anybody even question whether they have overstepped the line by tipping a meal over a three year olds head? I am truly shocked that anybody would do that.
I admit that I haven't read the whole thread as after the first two pages
Could only imagine a three year old sitting there crying with gravy running down her head and then going to bed hungry.
OP - please ask social services for help with learning some appropriate behaviour strategies.