Would you have wanted to be told how hard motherhood would be?

[bourneville]

I was so shocked and a bit resentful once i had dd that nobody had thought to tell me how hard it would be! Particularly regarding breast feeding. tbh i don't know if i was actually told and just didn't understand, because i did do a breast feeding workshop and i remember ppl saying how "hard" it was at the beginning and how it seemed "constant" - maybe it just didn't sink in because i had no conception of what it might be like? But also the amount of time it took to physically recover! That was the real . Actually 2.6 years later I don't think i have physically recovered yet!!

But anyway, anyone i know who has got pregnant since has had the misfortune of a complete explanation of how hard it all is from me. I miss out the really scary nightmares of labour, etc, and details of bodily functions etc, but I really do think we need to know! What do you all think? Would it have helped you get through it easier? When I was pg i read a couple of books and one particular book (i forget which one) i stopped reading by chapter 2 because it freaked me out so much. But once i had had dd I was eternally grateful that i had read as much as i did because i don't think i was as shocked as i would've been.

A friend also once said that she thought it made a difference whether or not you had planned to have a baby and were desperate for one, or was unplanned. I had NO INTENTION of ever having a baby, last thing i wanted, for me getting pg was the end of the world at first, so in actual fact i was pleasantly surprised once dd was here how wonderful (though hard) it all was, and kind of easier than i was expecting in a way. I seriously remember going clothes shopping when i was pregnant and thinking, "I will never be able to do this again!" !! But I imagine a lot of mothers who are really wanting to have children and perhaps have a blissful motherly vision are in for a HUGE shock and perhaps it is them I am saying need to know?? Or would they rather not know? Would it stop ppl ttc?

Thanks :) But you getting me thinking might actually help. I am very lucky in that I have a close circle of friends who as I said babysit on occasion, and my parents live nearby also and are very helpful. So I do get out now & then (not as often as i'd like, although tbh i don't really have the energy! :)), it's just difficult that it's never without feeling guilty about having to ask someone to help, and of course it's never spontaneous.

But you know, that's just the way it is and if I want to be completely happy with my life I simply have to find a way of accepting it and getting used to it. Sometimes I think I've sussed it and then a little thing triggers it off again...

Yes I would - had I been better prepared I probably wouldn't have suffered PND after my first born (which was everything to do with 'baby shock' and the sudden realisation that my life was no longer my own).

2 mths after the baby I looked at other parents with more than one kid and I couldn't believe there were so many when having a baby is like your world being turned upside down! Why do people do it?! But then there's me already wanting another!

with lack of freedom I do get resentful of DH sometimes - just being able to sit down and relax whenever he wants!

BV, that was a fab post. Thanks for that.

Beartime - it's only the first baby that turns your world upside down. The second is much easier because you know what to expect, you know that each phase will pass and you realise that they're not actually as fragile as you thought your first baby was - if he or she cries for a bit because you're busy with the first child, it's not the end of the world (and by the time yu get to the second, they've often stopped crying anyway!) I can kind of see now how people go on to have more children - but after my first was born I didn't think I'd ever be able to cope with two!

satine, do you think that's true if you have them really close together?

With regards to my earlier post, didn't really answer the question, but i wouldn't have really believed it if somebody had told me motherhood was really hard (i would have listened with interest) .. depends on your situation, how you feel, etc and i felt ready and things were right.
Having my first, i was focused. It was a good pregnancy, good birth and first couple of years was a breeze and i would think 'oh, what's the fuss about .. i could have ten of her' .. but was happy to have just the one for a while.
Having two was so different. Since i left a big gap, by the time dd was ready for f/t schooling and i was ready to go back to work .. i was pregnant with dd2 .. i found it much tougher .. back to square one and kind of dreading it.
I don't ever regret having dd2 though.

No, because wouldn't have believed anyone else anyway. Would just have assumed that they were "doing it wrong" and that my kids would never be like that :).

Sorry - but this is really one of my bug bears. I didn't have my ds until I was 40 and I always knew how hard it was going to be. You only need to pay attention to people with children to know that. I knew from the age of about 20 or so how hard it is having children and I was right

People who think it is going to be all rosy are those who don't pay attention to reality. Just look around and pay attention - most childless people however don't bother to do this and most get a shock when the child is born.

HOWEVER, the downside was that I had such a negative picture of having children that I didn't have children for ages partly because of it. Then I decided I did want then but really worried if I'd cope. I have to say despite thinking I was prepared for it - I WASN'T - particularly with regard to the difficulty of breastfeeding. Also the sleep deprivation was beyond awful and there were times when I just wanted to run away/die anything to get some sleep even though I had expected it and was dreading it - the reality was beyond awful. The first year really was horrendous without many redeeming features (that is how I really saw it at the time)- now in the second year it is much easier - though I still struggle with the time to myself bit.

In answer to your question - I think if the parents seem to have a too rosy picture maybe a bit of reality can help them to be realistic after the birth - otherwise they may blame themselves that things are hard when this is probably the case for most people.

Also essential is to talk about the problems that can happen breastfeeding and encourage them to have a plan of action if there are problems - but also to state that lots of women have no problem at all so that they don't create problems before they happen.

If however the person seems to already be quite realistic/pessimistic about having a baby (as I was)then maybe telling them some of the good points would help.

oh good gods no.

i had the thought this morning that i thought trying to understand a babies different cries was hard, that's nothing compared to a toddler!

lazycow you have a very good point about it depending on the person's outlook, i have so far been far too generalistic , because of the circle of ppl i have hung around with (ie ppl who haven't had much to do with children). Although i do have one nanny friend and she has a few nanny friends (who you'd think would fully know what to expect) who went on to have children expecting to find it easy (because they "knew what to do") but in fact they didn't realise it's the stuff that nannies DON'T have to experience that is the hardest stuff. if that makes sense. Again must quickly add, I'm not generalising about nannies here, I'm just talking about the ones i know!

This is a great thread bv-thanks for starting the discussion.
I was as prepared as I could have been by which I mean I had heard about the non-rosy side of it from many friends with two very close together and had read absolutely everything I could lay my hands on.
I would not have been able to imagine that I could function on so little sleep -ds is now six months and has never slept more than a 4 hr stretch in his life.
However I also could not have imagined the huge outpouring of devotion, love and adoration that I feel for him-I would do anything for his happiness.
I think my dh was less prepared although I had made him read some books about it including Babyshock by Relate and read bits of Kate Figes out to him. I think he still mourns our old lifestyle ( travelling, meals out, talking until the early hours and lots of sex!!!) and feels a bit like his partner has been replaced by an alien with huge bags under her eyes and no stomach muscles who is in thrall to the cult of DS!
Would be interesting to hear how other dads feel-somebody should start a dadsnet....
Anyway to get back to the original post-I don't think you ever know what its going to be like til you're there and everyone's experience is different so why put people off?
There 's enough info out there for those who want to be prepared for the worst-I think when Kate Figes first published her book there probably wasn't as much which is why she and other writers talk about the conspiracy of silence surrounding new motherhood.
Thanks again for a great discussion bv!

Oh and the great thing about mumsnet is that whatever you are going through with your lo you can read the posts on here and realise you are not alone.....have recommended to pg friend overseas already....

Oh kleggie I read your post (12.05 yesterday) and just wanted to post back.
There are so many plusses to motherhood. It has made my life complete. I cannot imagine what I used to do but I know for sure that it was nowhere near as worthwhile as what I do now in what used to be my spare time.
A colleague called me “supermum” yesterday because at the weekend I took my oldest for a pre-party tryout at a laser quest game (he’s a bit nervous) and then took all 3 to see the Gruffalo’s Child at the theatre. But guess what? I enjoyed doing that!
It’s so rewarding and fulfilling. The expression on ds1’s face when he came into the room the other morning holding his “Peter from Narnia” shield (for world book day) more than made up for the 30 mins I had spent cutting out a red lion the previous evening.
Please don’t think you will lose all those things you mention. Yes, some people suffer from a lack of sleep, but many are fine. I sleep all night every night, more or less. I still go to work. I am healthier than ever before thanks to eating and drinking better. My figure - well I was a size 16 pre-DS1 and now a size 12. Agreed, social life and travel have changed, but actually thanks to meeting mums my social life is better in a way.
Not trying to boast, honestly! (and I know my experience is only mine, not everyone’s) just trying to put a positive view. I am so very positive about being a mum, if that is any help to you.
Enid agree about that rubbish 2 socks book, not going out for a year what was she on?????

Carla, there's 18 months between my two. I think if we'd left it a long time, it would have been more of a shock to go back to the chaos of a new baby!

On a more general note, I have some friends in their late 40s who decided not to have children (she felt she wanted to concentrate on her career). They always focus on the negative aspects of parenting, saying things like "How do you cope with changing nappies? And you can't go on holiday at the last minute. And all those sleepless nights..." It's none of my business, and I would never ever be as patronising as to say this to them but I feel so sad for them because they have no idea about the absolute and complete joy that a child brings. Yes, life is mundane and relentless and motherhood is hardly glamorous but I could not have imagined how wonderful it is to hold your own child. And they'll never know. I know they do wonder if they were right, now, as they've said so.

Glad you're enjoying the thread LadyG, me too :)

Clary - it is where you're at I need to get, I am so close. Of course anything I do with dd in what used to be my spare time is more "worthwhile" than anything I was doing before, and being a SAHM is more fulfilling for me than any job ever was (can't say more worthwhile, I did pretty worthwhile jobs before :)). It is just that i need just a little bit more to my life! I think once i go back to work part time (will be trying to sort something out soon) I might feel more "complete" or something. It is possible perhaps that it is taking me longer than some to come to terms with my life being taken over, because dd was the result of a one night stand and I found out i was pg a month into a new relationship (same boyf as now :)) and I was happier just then than i'd ever been in my life, so getting pg was like a bolt from the blue. Dyou think if you had planned your children, with a spouse, it is easier to work through that lack of freedom/complete life change thing? 9 months - or rather 7 months by the time i knew i was pg - goes bloody quickly and before i knew it i was bf'ing a baby constantly and forgoing any social life, as well as trying to keep up with a new relationship. If you're planning for children, you're ready for it, and presumably are prepared to a certain extent for the changes (and there's someone else doing it with you which I believe can also be harder, but ykwim). I could be talking completely balls here [sorry, balls is the word i used in place of b ll cks when dd is around! just automatically comes out!]

Satine, I completely know what you mean with the childless friends being so negative.

It makes me want to shout at the (although I don't) because from my point of view, all these holidays and spontanious things, and little treats like ornaments, they are all just something to occupy an empty life.

Some of my childless friends (and at 25 I have a lot of those) seem so purposeless, they flounder from one obsession (cars) to another (the gym) but they honestly think they have the better deal!

I say only this. I would give every foriegn holiday ever offered just to hear "Lug oo, Mummy!" called after me as I walk down the stairs at night.

Well this makes for interesting reading. BV you asked if someone from the other side was reading- well that’s me. I have been reading posts here doe some time, I was looking for info and opinions from real mums as I am very torn about whether to have kids or not (and then I sort of got addicted to mnet as it turns out that apart from being mums, you’re all such interesting and varied people). However I have to say the decision is still not really resolved.
It’s an odd situation because my dh is the one that really wants kids (but would not pressure me if I said no, just would be very sad). Some of the posts here make me gasp at how little dad’s dh’s do for kids/around house and I know that would not be my problem. I guess I mean to say that as a mother I already know that the whole thing would not be my responsibility so that’s not what I am worried about. But like you I worry I would resent the loss of my freedom (to do things as and when I wanted). I think I know what all the bad things might be like- sleep deprivation/ possible problems with bfeeding/ childbirth etc/ challenges in relationship/difficulty balancing career and children. And this is what puts me off, if you like I have to much of an idea! What I don’t have a feeling for is the upside, I don’t find kids partic cute or interesting and I don’t have the maternal ‘urge’ baby hunger thing. Sometimes I fleetingly see what that might be and I accept that it exists (otherwise why do so many people do it and why do so many say despite all the shit the upside is great) it’s just that I don’t really see that for myself. I’m too rational as I don’t have the emotional feeling/need so sometimes ending up asking myself what’s the point.

You sound pretty harsh Colditz, I'm sure many childless people would take offence at what you're saying! I wouldn't agree that travel, etc etc is to fill an "empty life" (depends who you're talking about actually, i have one friend and all she seems to do is travel. In actual fact she is desperate to find a nice man and settle down but tbh is going completely the wrong way about it! ), but i do know what you mean about other ppl's lives seeming so purposeless. Thankfully my close circle of friends do (almost all of them) intend to have children one day, but I find it very difficult not to scream DO IT!! at them! (nothing against ppl who choose not to, but I do feel like i'm drifting away from my friends a little bit because they're in a completely different world to mine. I have already said something like this recently on mumsnet, i can't remember whether it was this thread or not so sorry if i've repeated! ).

I keep quite a detailed diary and about 5 or 6 years ago i was in the most BORING temp job desperately trying to figure out what it was i wanted to do with my life. I have never ever intended to have children, i had a medical phobia on top of that, so I was so shocked when flicking back through my diaries recently I came across the following: "Sometimes I think i should have children, I think it is the only really worthwhile thing to do in life."!!! Or something to that effect. I had completely forgotten that I had ever thought like that at all! I wonder sometimes if unconsciously i allowed the pregnancy to happen, ie wasn't 100% careful, because deep inside i knew however terrifying and inconvenient it would be, that it was what i really wanted and needed in my life.

I've deviated again i think and not sure how that connects to colditz's post but i think it does somehow... the purposeless thing... however i did get a permanent job after that that I really enjoyed and was worthwhile (and had one before that temp job too) but i guess there was always something missing.

Must add though that that is a bad reason to have children i reckon, on its own i mean. I have absolutely no intention of being dependent on dd for my happiness, I think that would be really unhealthy. And i also think that's another reason why i'm finding it hard to relax into the life of motherhood - if i could i would whole-heartedly throw my whole self into it, but i'm aware that in the long run it would be bad for me and bad for dd; some day dd won't be a child any more and where would that leave me? I need to have a life outside dd so i'm happily balanced, I just haven't worked out how, and how to not allow the attempt at that to affect how I am with dd or how i view motherhood. Does that make sense?

ah dont be mean colditz

I have some lovely friends who would love a baby but it isn't going to happen for them.

they always go on fabulous holidays etc and I don't expect everyone knows that they can't actually ahve children

Hettie - x posts so here's my reply to yours!

The funny thing is, when friends close to me (ie who I've told far too much about the real deal!) start sepaking the way you do, being negative about having children, I completely backtrack. When someone else says "I don't know how I'd cope with the lack of freedom," I find myself being far more positive about it than I've been here and than i feel about it sometimes in reality! I wind up saying, oh it's not as bad as all that, i do go out now & then, i do get around with dd of course, and it is far outweighed by the positives!

And re maternal feeling etc, I never really felt maternal before either, and children were a bit of a mystery to me, i always felt unconfident with them and didn't always connect well with them. But it is entirely different with your own kid - and although i am more confident with other ppl's kids now than i used to be, it is still completely different from your own. Plus, not all women automatically immediately feel that way about their new born baby (I felt like a milk machine and dd like a little alien (ok that's an exaggeration!) for the first week or so!). The love grows & grows over time. I can't believe that I love dd more & more all the time, when i thought i loved her to bursting point at the beginning! :)

Plus, you know, there are always hard things to get through in life, ups & downs, etc, and also, you sound similar to the way i used to think about having children, and the way i felt like when i was pg - that my life was going to be over. Yes, my life as i knew it was going to be over, but a whole new one would begin and as ppl keep saying, although perhaps a whole lot harder, it is also a whole lot more rewarding!

And also, although i'm saying it is a whole lot harder, it always strikes me that in my late teens & early-mid 20s (i'm 30 now) I was actually pretty depressed and unhappy a lot of the time. So in fact much as i complain, i am a lot happier and more content than i have ever been, since having dd! It's a weird contradiction but there you go. And as Colditz said, all those things you're afraid of giving up pale into insignificance once you have a baby.

I have to post now - I was going to ignore the patronising (one) and rude (another) comment on people who don't have children.

What an outrageous thing to say - that people without children are just filling their lives with meaningless things.

Before I parp on this though, I will say that much as I love my ds my life would have been just as good (in some ways better and in some ways worse) than if I had not had him.

Life is for living - whether we have children or not has no effect on whether that life was a good one or not. In fact my view tends to be that it is can be a lazy way out of finding meaning in life . The reality is that having a child has brought my life happiness but it certainly has not brought my life meaning - that is ongoing spiritual question I have to answer for myself. My ds can't do it for me.

What a load of rubbish to assume that everyone gets 'completely fulfilled' - or whatever that means by having children.

my god shoot me now

Hettie, i have a friend who has a v similar opinion to this as you.
When i first knew her she said she never wanted kids and admitted to being far too selfish to want kids.
She took no interest in my dd1 who was a toddler then.
I then had dd2 and she was around a lot and confessed to feeling 'something' and likes dd2 and dd1 a lot now.
She's getting married this year and says hopes to have a baby in 2 yrs time .. lots of talking with her fiance who wants a football team .. had to compromise!

oh dear lazycow i hope i didn't say anything that makes you react that way, i am in complete agreement with you and i hope that was clear in my post. My life is in no way "completely fulfilled" by having dd, in fact my negativity has been all about how to fit in what i need to fulfil it! And my talking about there being "something missing" etc was all about me personally, not about ppl in general without children! (ok i made a comment about other ppl's lives seeming "purposeless" i realise, but that's only because i've found new huge purpose in looking after dd).

I'll say again, i never intended to have children, never thought i needed to, didn't want to, thought my life could be complete without it. Now I have a dd i admit i can't imagine having gone through life without her but i wouldn't say it would never have been complete - my challenge was to find happiness & content and as i said, i was really happy for the 1st time just before finding out i was pg.
ok i'm repeating & rambling here but just paranoid i've offended you...

I totally agree, its obvious that when we do have children they become your life and i cetrinally would never change that for anything! He keeps me going every day, makes me laugh all the time. But as for not having a child my life would be fufilled just as much beacuse its what you make of it for your self and how you as a person see and feel for the wants in life.(be it the gym, car etc) Give me enought money to book holidays, live spontainiousley you still can with children buts its up to you if you want for it all. Personally i am too tired to do so much but if i really wanted the same life style as before i had children i still would as thee are always ways around things.