OK atheist parents - how do you deal with The God Thing?

[Bibulus]

DH and I aren't believers but we don't make a big thing out of it. We made the decision early on to be as neutral as possible in the way we talked about religion with DD, i.e. 'some people believe this, some believe that....'

She prays at school, she knows all about baby Jesus and his mother Mary, although she's probably a bit sketchy on the details of it all and has barely ever set foot in a religious building.

Anyway, this evening she asked to visit the local churchyard, so we had a little walk around, and she was asking lots of questions about the people buried there, why people brought flowers to them etc. Then she wanted to go into the church, and it was open so we poked our head in.

DD was spellbound by it - she said breathlessly, 'why is it so pretty in here mummy?' and asked a million questions about how you talk to god, what does heaven look like, who are the pretty ladies with wings on the wall.....! Then we got collared by the vicar, who was very pleasant and sweet to her and showed her round the church which enchanted her even more.

Am now regretting taking her in there a bit! I didn't want to ruin it for her so I haven't said anything to undermine the idea of god or praying or heaven. Now she is sitting next to me on the sofa practising praying. DH will do his nut!

So anyway, I'm interested to hear how other non-Christian, non-believing parents handle all this stuff?

I believe that children do have an innate sense of God. While many parents try and perpetuate the myth of santa/easter bunny etc. the idea of God is actually a very natural one for children. It is snubbed out quite quickly however when they realise their parents do not approve of such a belief.

Children have an innate sense of imagination. That's all. The idea of god just sometimes catches that imagination.

As does the Easter Bunny, fairies at the bottom of the garden, teddy being alove, etc...

alove alive

Why do you think children have an innate sense of god?

I have a very vivid memories of attending mass aged about 8 and thinking about how strange the idea of God is and deciding that all the religious paraphernalia had to be invented in order to make people believe this stuff. I've been an atheist ever since. The sense of God certainly wasn't innate for me and I was raised by a very devout RC mother and extended family.

DH had a similar experience a little earlier (but then he was Protestant so didn't have to hold out for a dress like me!).

I know friends raised by atheists/agnostics who have had the reverse experience too. Some people describe this upthread. I don't think we should make generalisations about children having an innate capacity for anything. They are simply people. But they are perhaps a little more subtle and sophisticated in their thinking than some people on this thread give them credit for.

haven't read all the thread, so appologies if this has already been said.

We are agnostic with a stronger leaning to athiest (esp DH) and our children go to a c of e school (no other choice in rural england it seems). Eldest is at secondary and if anything is guaranteed to put children off religion it is RE, he loathes it.

We have dealt with questions by saying the bible is a book of fairy tales and fables, (they've got an Aesops fables at home) and that some people like to believe it is true.

We treat the nativity etc in the same way as any other play/music/singing they might do, and explain the church as a charity, not that that aspect has been questioned much.

Despite having an utterly humourless vicar who comes in to indoctrinate speak to them in assemblies (and who teaches them creationism as fact), DS2 who is 8 has only recently realised that the 'son of god' is not, in fact, "something to do with those cow triangles, you know, Cheesus"

So, I'm not too worried...

*apologies

Those of you who want to peddle Christiantity to your own DC: what are you doing about the nasty bits of the bible? Like Elijah, who got his imaginary friend to send bears to eat up children who laughed at him? Or the bloke who handed over his two DDs to a mob to be raped? Or all the stuff about women's inferiority?
My dad, DS' much-loved granddad, died last year and so DS has wanted to talk, on and off, about death ever since. I have explained that we are made of stardust and that when a person dies, s/he is eventually reduced to atoms and those atoms turn into other things, but the person remains alive in the memories of the rest of us who loved the person. Mercifully, perhaps, my dad was cremated and his ashes scattered in one of his favourite places, so I've been able to talk to DS about Grandad's ashes going into the ground and gradually turning into grass and being eaten etc which is probably better for a 7 year old to deal with than a body decaying in a coffin...

SGB what a fab link!

I tell the dc no after life,physically dead.fondly remembered but that it's all a nice story,nice kind way to recall the missed
some folk are jewish/christian/Islam all equal but different - acknowledge the particular faiths have diff significant events

My brother read a passage written by Brian Cox about stardust at my mother's funeral last year. Can't track it down at the moment, but it was perfect for a funeral of an atheist. It balanced science and wonder in a fantastic way- and was easy for children to understand.

How does your DH think she will be able to make a well informed and independent decision if she doesn't experience something of God and how the beliefs of others were formed? Would he let her go "ugh" at Chinese food without trying it?

Are Christian parents expected to give equal weight to an atheist world view when they raise children? So they can make a properly informed decision?

Yes I think so Seeker - ours were taken to church as children providing they wanted to come and they did until they were about 11 or 12. They have been provided with all the scientific evidence that argues there is no God. They are making up their own minds and have been equipped with the tools to do so.

But how can that possibly work? I am an atheist. I believe that is the correct world view. Are you saying that I should not tell my children that, but that I should take them to church, so that I don't somehow taint their choices? What about all other beliefs? And that Christians should not tell their children what they believe, but teach them about atheism........

But married, it's not just giving equal weight to an atheist viewpoint, is it? As I said upthread, if you're being really fair-minded about this, you should also give them the opportunity to try out Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, scientology, Mormonism - well, you get my drift. In fact, to be really fairminded, there are all the historical, defunct religions as well, as practised by the ancient Romans, Greeks and Egyptians.

"They have been provided with all the scientific evidence that argues there is no God"

I'm not familiar with any such scientific evidence.

Atheism is not about "look at all this evidence that proves there is no God". It is about "those religious people who say there is a God have no evidence whatsoever, so we are not believing a word of it".

The onus of proof is not on atheists. It is on those who make the fantastical claims an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent creator of the universe who still keeps track of what we do and why, who will then sort us into eternal pain or eternal bliss.

"equal weight to an atheist viewpoint"

Should be like this:

"Muslims believe this, Jews believe that, Buddhists believe this, Scientologists believe that, and mummy and daddy are Christians so we believe this, although there is no proof for any of it (but we believe it anyway) and that is what atheists say"

CoteDAzur. Exactly I agree with you. We have done our best as practicing Christians to give them as much information as possible and have encouraged them to be open minded. They went to a CofE primary which took them on trips to a Buddhist Temple, a Sikh Temple and mosque. DS goes to a school with a Christian foundation, DD to a convent. In RS both have covered most other religions in some depth. At present they say they don't believe because they think it's nonsense and they have the freedom to do so.

You are right there is no proof for it but neither has God been disproved. Rightly or wrongly we believe in it. Prayer helps, me spirituality helps me, the details of the Old and New Testaments are interesting and open to interpretation, the Christian community is supportive and so is my church's community, the music is uplifting and technically often very good. It is something I decided to accept and was confirmed at 37 having been brought up by parents of different religions with another thrown in via a grandparent. That tapestry made me believe there was one God, fashioned differently to meet the needs of many people.

Providing our DC lead honest, caring, loving lives they are free to worship who they wish or nothing at all. I might draw the line at the moonies though.

seeker Tue 05-Jun-12 10:34:47
"But how can that possibly work? I am an atheist. I believe that is the correct world view. Are you saying that I should not tell my children that, but that I should take them to church, so that I don't somehow taint their choices? What about all other beliefs? And that Christians should not tell their children what they believe, but teach them about atheism........"

Why not tell them about both sides?

That's what I've always done: told them that I am a Christian and I believe this, but Uncle X is not and he believes this, and your friend Y is a Hindu and believes this. Also, my friend Z and I are both Christians but we don't quite believe the same things about everything: I believe in evolution and she doesn't. And explained about agnosticism too, so they know that you don't have to make your mind up exactly about what you believe. Why ever not?

If I'd tried to hide atheism away from them and pretend it didn't exist, I would have felt like the most awful fraud.

married - "You are right there is no proof for it but neither has God been disproved"

You can't expect sceptics to disprove your every fantasy . You are the one who needs to cough up the evidence if you want your theories to be taken seriously.

• I say our world was created as an experiment by aliens
• Really? Why would you think that? Where is the evidence?
• You prove it wasn't. Oh you can't? That must be my belief is as good as your non-belief.
• What?

You see where I'm going with this.

Cory - re "That's what I've always done: told them that I am a Christian and I believe this, but Uncle X is not and he believes this, and your friend Y is a Hindu and believes this."

That is because you are all different faces of the same thing - all believers in things they can't prove.

"Z and I are both Christians but we don't quite believe the same things about everything: I believe in evolution and she doesn't."

Do you talk about that as if both viewpoints have equal validity? Or as evolution being actual proven fact and your friend Z being a bit of a fruitcake for refusing to see it?

CoteDAzure. What's wrong with keeping an open mind? Why are you so aggressive? Some people believe in something you don't - that's fine isn't it? I wouldn't dream of forcing you to believe or being rude to you.

"Some people believe in something you don't - that's fine isn't it? "

That is absolutely fine, as long as their beliefs affect only themselves, and don't:

• encourage believers to expect special privilege
• encourage believers to oppress others in the name of their religion