OK atheist parents - how do you deal with The God Thing?

[Bibulus]

DH and I aren't believers but we don't make a big thing out of it. We made the decision early on to be as neutral as possible in the way we talked about religion with DD, i.e. 'some people believe this, some believe that....'

She prays at school, she knows all about baby Jesus and his mother Mary, although she's probably a bit sketchy on the details of it all and has barely ever set foot in a religious building.

Anyway, this evening she asked to visit the local churchyard, so we had a little walk around, and she was asking lots of questions about the people buried there, why people brought flowers to them etc. Then she wanted to go into the church, and it was open so we poked our head in.

DD was spellbound by it - she said breathlessly, 'why is it so pretty in here mummy?' and asked a million questions about how you talk to god, what does heaven look like, who are the pretty ladies with wings on the wall.....! Then we got collared by the vicar, who was very pleasant and sweet to her and showed her round the church which enchanted her even more.

Am now regretting taking her in there a bit! I didn't want to ruin it for her so I haven't said anything to undermine the idea of god or praying or heaven. Now she is sitting next to me on the sofa practising praying. DH will do his nut!

So anyway, I'm interested to hear how other non-Christian, non-believing parents handle all this stuff?

DH and I have the challenge of being atheists but his ex being vaguely Christian. We generally stick with the different people have different ideas but as DSS1 has got older we've found ourselves expressing our views more. We've said the Bible stories and not necessarily literal truth and when I was asked (cornered when DH was out) whether God would create another flood I said that maybe God created floods in the past but today it's more about climate change. I try to respect religion but when it comes up against science then science has to win.

I'm not having the kid worry about God being cross each time it floods!

You could say that the flood is historical fact (appears in lots of other places like the Epic of Gilgamesh) and that everyone has their own explanation - now we know about climate change we don't need to explain things using God.

The Biblical flood is historical fact now, is it?

Bibulus - re tolerance and letting her find her way:

This is why I asked how old she is. If she were 10, I would say you should give her books on story of religions, take her to different religious buildings etc. Because at that age, she would actually be capable of beginning imparting these religions and finding one that she feels is closer to her - i.e. finding her way.

At age 5, kids are gullible and very easy to influence. If you tell her there is no God, she will believe you. If you take her to a church and priest says "Of course there is a God and look at all these lovely stories and beautiful pictures", she will believe him. On this, I agree with your DH that taking your DD to visit a church was probably not the best idea.

To answer your OP: We don't talk about God, religion, etc with DC (7 & 3) because we would like to delay this conversation to a time in the future when they will have the intellectual capacity to think and reason for themselves, rather than believe whatever we tell them.

Right up there with Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy. Other people like to believe but we don't, yet we should respect their right to believe. I guess I leave it with DC to make up their own minds & so far they side with us.

I have a lot of praise for many parts of different religions, just don't buy into many other parts, esp. mythologies.

Christianity is huge part of British cultural heritage in the same way as Shakespeare. I think familiarity with the stories, biblical and historical,is an important grounding for understanding many cultural nd literary references. Greek myths are handy too. Until recently knowledge of bible stories was assumed, so authors could refer to them to get a point across. True in everyday usages too e.g being a good Samaritan, killing the fatted calf, walking on water.

I think not visiting churches and discussing their significance, as centres of community activity, power and the arts historically is missing a chunk of social history essential to understanding our culture - cutting off your nose to spite you face really and why, out of fear that Christian beliefs are powerfully infectious? If you have any confidence in your scepticism and your children's intelligence there's no risk is there. If they do arrive at a different conclusion they will have something interesting to contribute to your family discourse.

As for belief, people are better able to dismiss things they understand, that have been allowed to expose their illogical belief system to scrutiny and ridicule. That's the basis of free speech. Does your DH not believe in that principle?

Personally I'm an atheist though brought up churchgoing and I did feel as a child that friends of atheist parents brought up with certainty about that belief lacked the understanding of Christianity necessary to dismiss it thoughtfully. An amount of immersion is a good way of gaining understanding of any culture.

Cote - yes, actually, the flood is historical fact. Not the version where Noah builds an ark etc etc (though I'm sure some people did escape in boats with livestock) but there was a flood at about the right time period, yes.

I think religion makes far more sense to a five year old than science. We use the 'some people believe' line a lot but my five year old is quite taken by biblical explanations of the world ATM.

I am in an even more difficult position, I think, because I take the benthamite view that if there is a god, he must be a tyrant, and I really don't want to pass on that negativity to the dcs.

If my dcs find a comfortable, reasonable form of religion that makes them happy, I will be fine with that. If they are cautious agnostics or atheists that is fine too. I just don't want them to be unreasonable and intolerant, whether of a religious or atheist cast.

Some floods are historical fact. Not the Flood, the mythical one that covered the entire world, written in the Bible.

If you are going to disagree. Please show proof of this historical fact.

DD ate green vegetables at age 5 because she believed that they made her hair beautiful like princesses' hair. Why did she believe that? Because I told her.

I rest my case

When my children asked me why I don't believe in god, I explained that to me, the idea of god wasn't realistic, because scientists have found evidence of lots and lots of things that the bible doesn't mention, such as dinosaurs, planets, evolution, but no evidence for someone being able to walk on water or turn water into wine. I explained that to me, the bible is a nice story book, like aesops fables.

I think it's important that children are taught about all religions and especially Christianity and the Bible as it underpins so much of our literature etc.

Your daughter is at an age were she will soak up information and will often feel immersed in the subjects she is learning about so I wouldn't worry that you've indoctrinated her into a lifelong belief in Christianity. As she continues to develop her skills of analysis and critical thinking she will naturally bring logic into what she learns about the varying beliefs of other people. That's what I'm assuming anyway. One of my little ones went through a stage of thinking he loved god, he wanted to sing songs about god and Jesus all he time. My other little one has always been a heathen and just cannot fathom the whole faith thing.

Excellent post lottie

Oh good grief Cote - I said there was a flood but NOT the way it's described in the Bible. There were epic floods at the right time period.

Really? This is not as generally accepted a "fact" as you seem to think.

I'd be interested to read about these simultaneous epic floods that occurred at the Biblically correct time. Please give some links.

Then you might want to familiarise yourself with the proceedings of the Tel Aviv University environmental research team. Their research from 2007 gives clear evidence for a natural flood overcoming the barrier between the Mediterranean and the formerly freshwater Black Sea at that time. They say there is no doubt that it was a very fast flood and it covered an area four times the size of Israel - which to the Jewish people living in the region would have seemed like it covered the world. There are also Babylonian and Mesopotamian flood myths (in fact the Genesis flood myth is probably based on the Babylonian version). Just look up flood myths on wikipedia if you're interested.

I would love to familiarize myself. Provide links.

I agree with everyone who says you have to be tolerant, it will be her decision to make if she decides that she has a faith, not yours to belittle or discourage.

I am an atheist, my daughter is seven but has been asking questions since she was four. I believe that child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough for it to be answered. I also say that lots of people believe different things, I don't believe in any god. But if she does grow up to have a faith, that's her business. The only thing that would cause me pain was if she wanted to wear extensive head or facial coverings. But I would keep my pain to myself, she will always be my daughter even if she believes in things I find silly.

It is so hard to let go of our DC, but it's basically what we have to do from the time they are born.

They will end up being different to us, and we have to respect that.

My parents, especially my DM are essentially Fundamentalist Christians. DM has admitted since I have been an adult that she was so worried that we wouldn't share her beliefs that she felt she had to try to control us to make us do so.

It didn't work. And I don't see it working with atheism, either.

You can tell you DC what you believe, but they will make their own minds up in the end.

I went through a religious phase at the same age as your DD but soon grew out of it. I do love churches/cathedrals although the wealth of some can make me feel uncomfortable.

I agree with letting your DC make their own way in life, although I have never personally met any Christians with atheist parents - generally atheist parents seem to breed atheist children (although I'm sure there are exceptions!).

We use the line "some people believe" and as an ex-primary teacher I'm used to using this so it is second nature to me now. DS1 is only 4 but has a very enquiring mind - as a republican too we've had some very interesting jubilee conversations this weekend .

"I have never personally met any Christians with atheist parents - generally atheist parents seem to breed atheist children "

Do you think that might be because atheist parents don't send their kids to Sunday school etc therefore these kids are not exposed to religious education (even as "some people believe") at an early age?

Rabbittee - That link talks about seashells in the Black Sea that might be evidence of a great flood, or it might just be because of the water exchange between Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea that continues today (I used to live in Istanbul, where you need to be careful where you swim because of these currents). This theory of a great flood in the Black Sea first came out in 1990s but while the general idea (that Black Sea used to be a lake) is pretty widely accepted, there is ongoing debate re suddenness and magnitude of this salt water inflow.

There is lots of info online about this, and since Google is your friend, I'm sure you will find it easily

Just to remember why we are talking about this: Octavia claimed that the Biblical flood is historical fact. I am saying that while there were obviously various floods around the world, there is no proof of a worldwide flood after which the entire earth had to be repopulated from the animals saved on some guy's boat.