OK atheist parents - how do you deal with The God Thing?

[Bibulus]

DH and I aren't believers but we don't make a big thing out of it. We made the decision early on to be as neutral as possible in the way we talked about religion with DD, i.e. 'some people believe this, some believe that....'

She prays at school, she knows all about baby Jesus and his mother Mary, although she's probably a bit sketchy on the details of it all and has barely ever set foot in a religious building.

Anyway, this evening she asked to visit the local churchyard, so we had a little walk around, and she was asking lots of questions about the people buried there, why people brought flowers to them etc. Then she wanted to go into the church, and it was open so we poked our head in.

DD was spellbound by it - she said breathlessly, 'why is it so pretty in here mummy?' and asked a million questions about how you talk to god, what does heaven look like, who are the pretty ladies with wings on the wall.....! Then we got collared by the vicar, who was very pleasant and sweet to her and showed her round the church which enchanted her even more.

Am now regretting taking her in there a bit! I didn't want to ruin it for her so I haven't said anything to undermine the idea of god or praying or heaven. Now she is sitting next to me on the sofa practising praying. DH will do his nut!

So anyway, I'm interested to hear how other non-Christian, non-believing parents handle all this stuff?

CoteDAzur Tue 05-Jun-12 12:15:27
"Cory - re "That's what I've always done: told them that I am a Christian and I believe this, but Uncle X is not and he believes this, and your friend Y is a Hindu and believes this.""

Sorry, I should have made it clear that Uncle X is an atheist. The point being that I have never tried to cover up atheism in any way or pretend it doesn't exist.

As for the creationism, I hope I can manage to convey that there is good scientific evidence of evolution without having to call my friend Z a fruitcake? Why would I feel the need to do that?

I am also perfectly open about the fact that there is no scientific proof supporting my Christian beliefs? Again, why would I feel the need to lie to dc about something that is important to me?

I want my dc to know that there is a distinction between "I believe this (and am not ashamed or embarrassed about it)" and "you have to believe this". They are not me.

I will happily keep an open mind about things that an open mind is appropriate for. But I will not keep an open mind, for example, about whether or not evolution is real, or whether or not homeopathy works.

The thing I'm struggling with, while I'm doing the 'some people believe' thing, is that, to be completely honest, I think that they are wrong.

I think that I should be able to tell my child that there is no God, in the same way a religious person tells their child that there is. They don't all sit up the dinner table explaining the tales of Richard Dawkins, do they?

Nagoo Tue 05-Jun-12 13:05:44
"The thing I'm struggling with, while I'm doing the 'some people believe' thing, is that, to be completely honest, I think that they are wrong.

I think that I should be able to tell my child that there is no God, in the same way a religious person tells their child that there is. "

If you think that's what religious people should do, then yes certainly. Personally, I don't. I tend to stick to "I believe this" rather than "you have to believe this".

Of course you should be able to tell them you think they are wrong! Why wouldn't you?

married - I'm not aggressive, but surprised. This >>

Cory - re " told them that I am a Christian and I believe this, but Uncle X is not and he believes this. Uncle X is an atheist. The point being that I have never tried to cover up atheism in any way or pretend it doesn't exist"

Except that you are showing atheism as just another belief, like Christianity or Hinduism, and that is wrong. Atheism is scepticism. It is saying "None of you guys have a shred of proof, so I don't buy any of your beliefs" and is thus lack of unsubstantiated belief.

"As for the creationism, I hope I can manage to convey that there is good scientific evidence of evolution without having to call my friend Z a fruitcake"

No need for the fruitcake part (although probably rather fitting, if she is actually denying something as widely proven and accepted as evolution). I'm curious as to whether or not you are saying Z is wrong on this, or if you are saying "I believe this and Z believes that" (equal validity of opinions)

You dont have to be Christian or in fact believe in any deity to enjoy beautiful buildings and learn about history and history of religion. My Dad was a history and RE teacher but was never and still isn't a churchgoer. We went around countless castles and cathedrals as kids. I am atheist but have a reasonable understanding of various Christian theological arguments, use of symbolism in several religions, Baylonian myth and similarities to stories found in old testament, and know a bit about the history of Christianity in Britain. I don't know much about Koptic, Greek Orthodox or Catholic churches, but a little, and I know how they differ in catachism and sacrament to C of E beliefs and practice. I still don't believe in God though! I don't think you can live in Britain and not learn a little about C of E though, as most of our Bank Holidays and festivals are based around that religion (though some festivals and holidays were borrowed by the church from Paganism and other religions). I don't worry about it. LO will learn that some people want to believe in a God and follow a specific religion and we do not, but this does not stop us enjoying learning the history or enjoying festivals.

Exactly what seeker said:

"I will happily keep an open mind about things that an open mind is appropriate for. But I will not keep an open mind, for example, about whether or not evolution is real, or whether or not homeopathy works."

married: "Prayer helps, me spirituality helps me, the details of the Old and New Testaments are interesting and open to interpretation, the Christian community is supportive and so is my church's community, the music is uplifting and technically often very good."

So, to be honest, it's not about believing, is it, it's about the nice warm feeling you get from the trappings of religion. I'm not dissing that, by the way - having spent my formative years attending church, I know exactly how that works. But it's not about sitting down and thinking things through logically and asking yourself, "How plausible is this? In what way does it make any sense?"

This is why arguments between atheists and religious people never come to any good. For atheists, it's all about logic and for religious people it's all about feeling.

seeker Tue 05-Jun-12 13:10:39
"Of course you should be able to tell them you think they are wrong! Why wouldn't you?"

I think it is rather implied in "I believe" that "I think they are wrong". What I do not wish to imply is "you have to think they are wrong".

I think that because I am his mum, I should be allowed to say 'it isn't true' when he is taught Bible stories as fact. I feel disrespectful of his teachers if I do that. So I have to say 'some people believe that happened' or I am not tolerating their beliefs.

I think I am a lazy atheist. I need to spend a bit of time building up my 'isn't the world amazing' reportoire of science stories so I have some counter ammunition when he comes home from school. Then I can present positive information without having to just say 'I don't think that is true'.

This is a good thread.

when our son asked what happens after you die,we told him the truth,no one knows for sure,because you don't know until you die!But most likely nothing!Nothing wrong with nature!why make up stories to control people!

None knows what happens when you die-it is either the next great adventure or it doesn't matter because it is the end. Not worth worrying about.

Hackmum what you say may be right. Perhaps I don't have the strength that others have to have dealt with all that life has thrown at me without a faith. Perhaps that's where the roots of faith come from - the time when there were fewer logical explanations and one could bring 12 children into the world and see one or two reach five. I often say to my children "no deep down I don't know" but it's a hook I have chosen to hang my hat on and it isn't a bad hook that teaches hatred, or insecurity, or envy, or any other thing that is intended to hurt another. It is a hook, however, that can be supportive, charitable, social and kind.

I think there is something calming and beautiful about most religious buildings that appeal to children.

I once looked after a young boy(about 12 yrs.old) with autism while his parents were on a course. The venue was an old castle and the dad told me that if his son became really agitated or upset I should take him to the castle chapel and sit with him because he found churches calming. This proved to be the case.

Like cory I formed my own oppinion about god at a very young age. My dad had leanings towards being an agnostic and my mum believed in god but wasn't a great church goer.I never felt my parents tried to influence me but I felt from a very young age that there a spiritual being who was always present in my life and as I grew up and learned about Christianity something just clicked and I knew this was what I believed.

I don't believe in indoctrinating children with our beliefs, which are personal but I believe we should be as honest as we can and allow them to make up their own minds. I once told my niece (who had asked me) that I believed in god but she would need to look into it and make up her own mind. belief comes from within and no one has the right to deny another's faith

So do you think Christian parents shouldn't take their children to church, pray with them and live a Christian life as a family?

sunshine, that's a lovely idea but in practise it doesn't work like that - most religious parents 'indoctrinate' their children with their beliefs by attending church, talking about god and sending their children to religious schools, etc. In the same way atheists 'indoctrinate' their children by not going to church and never mentioning god except in a "some people believe" scenario!

Phew, a quick scan of the replies tells me I am on the right track. Don't poo poo it, just go along with it using the some people believe...tack. Talk about various religions and what they believe (Hindu-ism is handy re: death, re-incarnation has great appeal to children!).

I know this sounds a little off the wall but I haven't shied away from passively making the link with Father Christmas. A conversation we had with my DD (9) went as follows: DD: "Mum, Morgan says FC doesn't exist, does he?" Me: "I don't know for sure. I've never seen him myself. Some people say that about God too don't they?" Hopefully they will draw their own conclusions!

St Nicolas was a real historic figure. He didn't have reindeer and a flying sled, but he was a saint who did very good things for people. So it's sort of true, but just not in the way we've let the story develop.

I'm prepared to believe that there may have been a clever chap and gifted speaker called Jesus around at some stage too. He seems to pop up in lots of religions. I just don't believe he was the son of God so maybe that's sort of true too, but as you say, not in the way that we are led to believe. I'm hoping that one day my kids will arrive at the conclusion that just because their might be a grain of truth in a story, doesn't mean you have to swallow it hook line & sinker.

I always list to Carl Sagan reading from , that should played in schools along with the never ending hymns!

Haven't read the whole thread, but in answer to the OP...

We have always been very open with our dc about religion. Not just vague 'some people believe this, some that' but actually these are the historical reasons why religion x exists here and religion y exists here, talk about the problems there have been in the past due to religion and also the positive role religion has played in some situations, etc. etc.

Whenever dc have asked about one particular religion, we have always explained it as a comparative religion type thing. If they ask us about praying, we talk about different forms of meditation in different societies, the benefits of meditation and the problems with particular forms of praying in our opinion.

Allows us to appreciate together the wonder that is religious architecture (and we are all history lovers here, so visit a lot of churches one way or another) and talk about what it meant for a society to build such a building, sometimes also about what it said about the relative importance given to different aspects of life at different times, and about the role the church played in society at the time.

DD1 asked me earlier 'is God dead'?

i think this is a post-Easter question lingering in her mind..

rather than a post Nietszchean interpretation of religion!

soo....i went through 'elephant is not alive' (her toy)
DD2, DD1, mummy and daddy are alive, we walk and talk..
dead means can't walk and talk and eat any more... Ds is not alive. he is dead. that's why we cant see him again.

and let her draw her own conclusion about God. seemed to work for now.. though it'll come back again..thing is i really don't think she genuinely gets it, and i have to be quite careful about creating false hope.

children really don't have in-built answers to these things. mine don't seem to anyway.