OK atheist parents - how do you deal with The God Thing?

[Bibulus]

DH and I aren't believers but we don't make a big thing out of it. We made the decision early on to be as neutral as possible in the way we talked about religion with DD, i.e. 'some people believe this, some believe that....'

She prays at school, she knows all about baby Jesus and his mother Mary, although she's probably a bit sketchy on the details of it all and has barely ever set foot in a religious building.

Anyway, this evening she asked to visit the local churchyard, so we had a little walk around, and she was asking lots of questions about the people buried there, why people brought flowers to them etc. Then she wanted to go into the church, and it was open so we poked our head in.

DD was spellbound by it - she said breathlessly, 'why is it so pretty in here mummy?' and asked a million questions about how you talk to god, what does heaven look like, who are the pretty ladies with wings on the wall.....! Then we got collared by the vicar, who was very pleasant and sweet to her and showed her round the church which enchanted her even more.

Am now regretting taking her in there a bit! I didn't want to ruin it for her so I haven't said anything to undermine the idea of god or praying or heaven. Now she is sitting next to me on the sofa practising praying. DH will do his nut!

So anyway, I'm interested to hear how other non-Christian, non-believing parents handle all this stuff?

Octaviapink Sat 02-Jun-12 08:41:43
You could say that the flood is historical fact

CoteDAzur Sat 02-Jun-12 10:16:34
Some floods are historical fact. Not the Flood, the mythical one that covered the entire world, written in the Bible. If you are going to disagree. Please show proof of this historical fact.

Then came your "proof".

Sorry if I have misunderstood, but she was indeed talking about the flood rather than a flood, especially since she is saying people should tell their DC The Flood is historical fact in a thread about religion.

I have disagreements with 5yo DD1 all the time

The other day she wrote "thank you God for all my toys" on her easel, and I said (in a good humoured way) "oi, I bought you those toys!"

"But God made them..."

"No, people in factories made them."

"But God made the people..."

"No, their mummies and daddies made the people."

"Well I think God made them."

"Well I don't - you can think what you like DD, because nobody can ever prove if God exists or not, but I think the world is lovely enough without having to have a God in it. God is a lovely story that some people believe, like the greek gods and medusa, and like Rama and Sita, but I don't think the stories are true. "

"God is real."

"OK, we will have to agree to disagree"

But then we do a lot of looking for proof for our ideas and doing experiments and so on, so it might not work like that for kids that aren't quite so geeky and detached...

OP & CurvyPirate My parents were atheist, I turned out atheist too, whereas my sister has become a committed Christian.

She feels that she always had faith, but she didn't start going to church regularly until her mid twenties.
My mother, who is still rather dismayed, puts it down to the fact that we went to different schools, mine was the local comp, while my sister went to a girls school, with chapel every morning.
I put it down to the combination of a natural need for faith, and a childhood best friend who was from a very religious family, so sister was involved in her confirmation etc and would often go to church with them. Dsis was fascinated by the whole thing, and it just 'clicked' for her, even tho she didn't become a fully signed up church goer until years later.

I personally don't believe she would be as happy without her faith, so even tho I don't understand it, I'm happy for her.
Fingers crossed I keep an open mind if DS shows an interest!

We tell DS that it is a nice story that some people believe.

I agree with others that you absolutely should take her in churches. If you have the opportunity, take her in mosques, synagogues etc too. But churches are so ubiquitous, and a fundamental part of how Britain is how it is today.

Here is Dawkins supporting how children in schools should read the Bible. Actually, even as an atheist, I am happily reading a children's Bible to DD (almost 4YO) because (a) the stories are good (b) it is a fundamental part of our history in this country (c) it is an important part of life for other people here (eg including her church-going grandparents).

I just answer all her God-related questions in a way which is honest (to me!) explaining why I think what I think, and that other people think something different. I did find talking about Easter a bit tricky - although generally I'm very happy explaining things to DD (such as the facts of life), somehow I felt that explaining about the awful torture of Christ on the cross etc was a bit too much for a 3 year old. So somehow managed to explain the Easter story without really mentioning that bit, which after all is really the main event! The Christmas story is much more pre-schooler friendly!

Agree with others that "I believe xyz...Christians believe abc". Actually, I have found that of course sometimes it is possible to say "I believe xyz and so do Christians" in terms of many moral values etc!

Good luck .

Does anyone else find that "some people believe/I believe" a bit disrespectful/difficult in the specific? Like "Granny believes that x is in heaven but I believe he is just dead and in the ground?"
I know that it is just teaching different opinions of things, but I always find that I feel as if I am saying that granny is a daft old bat.
Sorry for the hijack, but we are getting a lot of this at the moment. Also "But Rover will come back from the dead, Jesus did"

I would just say that some people believe, you don't and when she is older she will make her own mind up about it.

thingamajig - by that logic, it is also disrespectful of your beliefs for Granny to say that she believes x is in heaven. I think you can explore why people might believe things which you don't, teach your children to be polite and respectful, but I am definitely going to explain (in an age-appropriate way, whatever DD's age) what I believe and why.

I think if you are explaining why you believe something quite different to people close to you, you maybe need to stress the importance of your DC being polite and respectful to the other people, particularly with something sensitive like death. But avoiding the issue, or even lying about your own beliefs, is just wrong.

This is a really interesting one for me. I was sent to Sunday school, but it was never forced on me, and when I had had enough, I was free to give it up. I have always wanted to believe in god, but it's difficult for me to get my head around the idea.

My DD (6), and as a consequence Ds - who's only 2, has been really interested in the whole god idea for a while. We read a children's bible together, and they often practice praying together. Like many of the previous posters, I always talk about it in terms of what some people believe, and in explain openly how I feel about it - I would like to believe too, but I'm not sure.

Interestingly, my DH was brought up not only in an atheist household, but also in one which actively encouraged their children to believe that religion and people with religious beliefs were wrong. Something that struck me some time ago was the fact that although they are law abiding, moral people, they have NO faith whatsoever. They believe wholly that we are totally in control of our fate. They take no risks, and ultimately expect the worst in people and in any situation. It is very sad, and it has had lifelong implications for their children. I would say that it inhibits DH and his siblings from living their lives to the full.

IMO to have faith is important. To say that there is no god or some intrinsic power of good can hinder a persons growth and wellbeing. Would be interested as to whether anyone disagrees with this.

I think the best gift I can give my kids is choice - I'm not going to tell them what they can or can not believe. I want them to choose for themselves. Politics and religion.

It's not an easy thing to do and i don't know if i'll succeed but I hope so!

One thing is absolutely certain -she will choose for herself so you might as well point out that she can when older.

When you take her to different religious places can you also take her to the NatHist and the Science museums? Plenty of pretty fascinating things there too.

"Does anyone else find that "some people believe/I believe" a bit disrespectful/difficult in the specific?... I know that it is just teaching different opinions of things, but I always find that I feel as if I am saying that granny is a daft old bat."

My thoughts exactly.

And don't you ever get back the question: "Yes but which of you is right, mummy?"

jjlovestoshop - just to mention that not all atheists take no risks, expect the worst in people and any situation, and actively encourage their children to believe that religion / people with religious beliefs are wrong, as you say your DH's family did.

You might be interested to read this info about humanism, which emphasises that is it very possible to have no religious faith but still live a very positive life. I really like the way this page puts it all.

Personally, I think that belief in a god can hinder your grown and wellbeing! And you can certainly believe in the goodness of most people, and aspire to live a very good life, and an altruistic one, with no faith.

"I want them to choose for themselves. Politics and religion."

Exactly.

We don't start talking to DC about politics at age 5, though. It is way too early. They can't possibly understand it and they cannot possibly choose for themselves at that age.

So why do we send DC to Sunday school, take them to churches, etc?

Cote

DS has asked who is right and I tell him that I don't know and that it is a matter of belief.

I also tell him that it isn't a decision to be taken until you're an adult. It is helpful to have adults in his life with different beliefs as he respects them and so respects that they believe different things to each other.

Why tell him about it all now, though? Why not wait until he is old enough to understand, reason, and start to find his way?

Btw, I'm not grilling you, just genuinely curious about how/why other parents approach this issue the way they do.

Everyone's different. Me, I'm autistic, but have always had a hugely strong Christian faith matched by a respect for different religions and different views on religion. My dh is agnostic, my ds is Quaker, my dsis is arguably Buddhist/Pagan. We all get along fine together.
A friend of mine was totally atheist. His wife died. He had a humanist funeral. Two weeks later he was seeking out a Vicar and talking to them about becoming a Christian, because no part of him could believe that his wife was forever dead and gone. The humanist funeral had, for him, done nothing at all to resolve his grief. Others will have different experiences. So yes, letting children see that there are different faiths, and showing respect for different views, is good. For me, my own faith has brought such comfort and reassurance. I'd recommend it to anyone, but I'd respect their choice.

Thanks coronation. Very interesting. For me, humanism is the perfect antidote. I will definitely look into it some more.

I certainly agree that to be atheist, does not have to mean lack of faith. My only real experience of true atheists has stemmed from Dh's family, and I do see them as the exception to the rule.

The sad thing is that they could never be humanists either. They will help people who need their help, but it has to be asked for - it is never offered, and there is a limit to how much they will help, for everyone, including immediate family. I find this mirrored in Dh's attitude towards me, and also his brother in his reaction to his OH. Maybe I attribute too much of their lack of optimism, and support to their atheism, when in actual fact, it's just down personality lol.

jj I'll disagree with you!
they have NO faith whatsoever. They believe wholly that we are totally in control of our fate. They take no risks, and ultimately expect the worst in people and in any situation......To say that there is no god or some intrinsic power of good can hinder a persons growth and wellbeing.

Well, my mother was very scathing of organised religion while I grew up, and I'm atheist, yet we both generally think that people are fundamentally good. My mother definitely takes risks , and is a positive person too. I don't think the Godly have a monopoly on goodness, in fact if anything i believe having codes of behaviour laid out for you can hinder your own moral growth!

It sounds more like your inlaws are just miseries, regardless of their position on faith! :)

We don't start talking to DC about politics at age 5? Really?

We do in my house. Religion too. We're coming from a Christian perspective in terms of the faith practised in our home, and make sure that we put in plenty of legwork in terms of 'some people believe'. We discuss atheism, agnosticism, and a plethora of faiths, involving trips to mosques, temples, and the Science Museum

jjlovestoshop - So your DH and his family are atheists and they are also a risk-averse bunch.

What makes you think there is a correlation between the two, let alone a causation?

Are you really saying atheism makes one risk-averse?

That is a very strange claim. Do you have any evidence for this, other than your perception of one family?Risk averseness might just be their personal/family trait. What makes you think it is in any way related to not believing in God?

jj - re "to be atheist, does not have to mean lack of faith"

Just how do you define "atheism"?