DP wants dd to move out - so upset

[nightmarebeforebedtime]

Been living with DP for 4 years, we moved in together when dd was 9. Back then everything was fine, we all got on and I thought everything was fine. In the last couple of years (since hormones have kicked in) dd and dp haven't got on quite so well, but I've put that down to teenage angst and the fact that dd's been having sporadic contact with her biological father which has been a little bit of a rollercoaster but seems to be settling down into a good arrangement. Dp and dd row a bit, but then I do with her occasionally, and I thought everything was still good, especially as dp was keen (like me) to have a baby together.

Fast forward to now, I'm 4 months pregnant and last night dp was talking about how much he's looking forward to the baby coming and us being a family, but then he sprang the idea on me that dd should go and live with her biological dad because she 'keeps asking to' (she only does as a shock tactic in a row) and then 'they'd be a family and we can be a proper family' (meaning just the two of us and the baby). I was too shocked to even reply, it's not as if dd's dad and dd get on so wonderfully that I'd seriously consider it. Then dp got angry that I wouldn't even think about it and kept asking why I wouldn't because it 'made sense all round'. We ended up arguing about it half the night and this morning but he's gone off to work which kind of ended it (I don't work today).

Don't know what to do, the stuff he was saying really shocked me, he seemed so adamant it would be the best thing all round, I just feel devastated that he doesn't seem to see dd as part of our family and could just 'give her up' like that, I thought he thought we were a family already .

This is a BIG red flag...... like some men (a very very tiny number of women) who only see things from their point of view and imagine they're simply being practical (ie selfish and self obsessed) he's asking the mother of his child to chuck her own daughter out of her own home. Just because they quarrel. That's all. Something which ALL teenagers and adults do at some point.

He needs someone to sit him down and give him a big (metaphorical or physical) slap on the head and tell him that just by saying that, he is being a total (I do know a few men who would happily administer a physical slap to another chap if they heard these words come out of his mouth). I'm not sure if it's better or worse than he probably doesn't realise what he's actually saying. A real man sits down with his partner/wife to work out solutions as to how to work through the problems as a couple and as a family. A coward runs away from the problem by trying to leave or to make the other person leave. He obviously has no idea that in "a proper family" (to quote him), parents and grownups don't solve problems by evicting the person that annoys them, they wait till they are calm and then work things out.

Sounds like he has already decided he wants to be child number 3. I'd say he had better apologise PDQ, and take his words back. Otherwise it'll be a trip down to Relate/couple counselling for him. Or it's curtains....

When I opened this thread, I thought we were oung to hear that the DD was 35 and still living at home. Not 13 and messing up her stepfather's nice tidy 'proper family'.

It's funny how this idea didn't occur to him before you were pregnant. Surely then dd could have 'simply' gone to live with her dad and the two of you could have lived a carefree singleton life, how marvellous. He's not thinking about this on a financial level as you would (of course) need to support your dd whilst living at her dad's. He's not thinking about this on a practical level, because your dd is old enough to help out with the baby and around the house.

So it strikes me that despite the supposed logic of his argument this is all about emotion, all about territory, all about control. He must know you're scared of being on your own again (frankly I would vastly prefer that to whatever mind games have led you to question whether your dd should be sent away).

Pushing out one child to make room for another is not, in anyone's world, the 'best thing all round'. I suppose, from a very warped perspective, it might be the best thing for him.

I feel for you, OP, what an awful situation. Now strap your claws on (metaphorically) and defend your cubs.

I'm wondering if this man is more daft than evil...

he doesn't have a child of his own, yet- does he?

I think perhaps he genuinely has v little idea of the bond you have with DD. I wonder if, after the baby's born, he'll actually realise what it is to be a parent, and realise what a twat he's been?

What CurrySpice said.

It sounds like a major driving force in you 'not knowing what to do' is a fear of being alone. The fact that you are even arguing about it with him, rather than just shutting down any discussion instantly, shows this.

There are worse things than being alone - being with a bully who will drive a wedge between you and your daughter is far worse than being alone.

I'm sure there were many many times when my SF fantasised about me and my db going to live with our dad - but had he ever said such a thing to my mum she would have filleted him, and he knew it. We were a package - completely non-negotiable.

You must make your dp understand this, without any doubt, if you are to have a future with him.

How could he not know about the bond between parent and child? It's a deeply ingrained part of our culture. Everyone knows about it.

yeah, you 'know' about it, but that's a big jump away from actually experiencing it...

I can't tell you how this has upset me for some reason.

If my adored DP ever said anything like this about my DC, I could never be with him. I would never trust him, always watching him to make sure he wasn't unkind to them and I would seriously worry that anyone who would suggest this was not the kind of human being I wanted to be with.

The suggestion would certainly not be met with doubt and hours of arguing.

oh, somehow my deleted expletive got deleted. I meant to say "he is being a total s*. " (line 2)

OP, just to say that regardless of where your DD wants to live, the right thing is that you do not even CONSIDER for a minute asking her to live somewhere else. She's still only 13! You're her mother and nobody at all (certainly not a partner/boyfriend/husband) has a right to tell you that you should consider shipping her out to someone else. It is absolutely no right of theirs to suggest this.

Remember the movie Sophie's Choice with Meryl Streep? (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie%27s_Choice_(film) ) Everyone was shocked by the story of what the Nazis did to Sophie and her children. It may not be the Nazis here, but he's doing the same thing - asking you to choose between looking after your older daughter, and the financial wellbeing of your soon to be born baby. I think it goes without saying that he has totally overstepped the line of human decency here. Please do not even go to that place of asking your daughter whether she'd like to stay elsewhere - you will be haunted by that for a very long time. And if you ask and she does go, you'll never forgive yourself, she'll never forgive you, it will have serious repercussions on your future and your baby's future. Please -having seen nasty things like this happen to others - do not go down that route.

Stay strong. Ask you DP to sit down (maybe outside in a park or cafe) and have a serious chat with you about how wrong the whole idea is. And if he doesn't see the error in his thinking, ask him if that is going to be his problem solving method every time there is a conflict- when your second child becomes a teenager. When you both have a conflict. I sincerely hope that there can be a happy ending. (Some people do see the error of their ways.)

But you don't need to experience it to know that it's completely inappropriate to ask a mother to send her daughter away. You'd have to be incredibly stupid not to. And I mean levels of intelligence that make single-celled organisms look bright.

This is one of the most heart-breaking OP's I've ever read on MN - so sorry for you, OP. What an appalling time to discover what yr DP can be like.

You don't need me, or anyone, to tell you that it's a very weird request, and not in a good way.

It's a bugger to deal with, but I suggest that first and foremost you don't let yr DD find out about what DP has said. That will just make it worse. Secondly, ask for help from yr friends and family - it's such an obviously unacceptable request that the majority will be with you.

Thirdly, if he raises the issue again, try all you can not to engage with it - don't dignify it with a response.

Oh, and if DP "gets angry" that you won't even think about kicking out a 13-yr old, say you'll kick him out.

Do you have any family or close friends around?

Whatever happens, I think your DD will be needing some support when the baby comes -- it would be nice to start setting up something now. Like, if she has a favourite aunt, maybe see if she could sort of keep an eye on your DD and make sure things aren't getting too bad for her.

If your DP comes home and says, you know what, I was an idiot, I'm so sorry for even suggesting it -- then I think you have a shot at working things out.

If he keeps trying to convince you, I think you have a serious problem.

I would be quite worried as well about what signals he may be sending your DD when you're not around.

I wouldn't be staying with him after this, he's shown you what he's really like and how he really thinks now. I most definitely would not have my own child moving out.

Can you be certain that your daughter didn't hear this all-night arguing? I remember hearing arguments, and not always particularly loud ones, growing up while it was assumed that I was sleeping. If your daughter was home then there's a good chance that she knows that her stepfather doesn't want her living with him. I feel really sorry for her being in this situation.

This is so heart-breakingly sad.

He has really given you a shit ultimatum.

Either you kick your daughter out so she does not have her mum or you lose him, so your new baby wont have his dad.

Only ONE of your children will live together in a happy family unit, or none. And you get to chose which one.

That is a little like choosing which child to save from a sinking ship, isn't it?

What sort of horrible person can do this?

There is no come back from this, is there?

Talk to his parents, too. They might be able to back you up and make it clear to him just how crazy an idea this is - and if it does come to a split you'll need them to know where it came from.

Could you phone his parents and ask them if it is them that has given their son the idea that your daughter needs to move out?

And for what its worth like runningforthebusinheels said regarding her SF, there are times, when DSS is yelling at me, toting the "you're not my mum line" and "I am not doing whatever you asked (insert reasonable request in here)" and the likes and then when I push the point and he has to do it anyway and he says I'm never coming back, for a split miniscule of a second I might think "phew" but I would never ever ever ever say it to my DH and when tempers are calmed and apologies made, I know in my hearts of hearts I would never mean it.

Plus should I suggest something like that, my bags would be packed and thrown out by DH (and rightly so).

I feel you are so stuck as you don't want to be alone, but you cannot let him show your daughter this at all, it's so so so sad.

He will be using your fear of being alone as his get out of jail free card, to manipulate you.

I agree with everyone else on here. Your daughter is your real family. She is the real family your DP bought into when he met you.

I would have been devastated if this had happened to me when my mum met her new partner. Luckily my mum always made it clear that WE were the team and her new DP would be joining our gang. He happily did so and is a wonderful stepdad who loves his grandkids from all their children.

I would have felt rejected if any mention of me moving out had come along with a new sibling. I would never have forgiven my mum for something on that scale.

Also my mum would never, never have allowed her DP to think that I was anything less than a full member of our whole blended family.

I understand you are pregnant and vulnerable, along with having a terrible shock. But I think this is exactly the right time to have a very strong talk with your partner about what he expects your family to be. If he doesn't see how important your daughter is to this set up, he is not likely to be able to live a long and happy life with you.

I thought when I read the title that your DD must be in her 20s or something and needing a 'nudge' to move out and start being more independent! But she's 13, a child

That's an absolutely awful thing for your DP to say, she's your daughter, your family, she can't just be sent away because he finds her inconvenient or she doesn't fit with his notion of a 'proper family'. He should never have got involved with you in the first place if he felt that way. I'm sure many step-parents have less-than-edifying thoughts in the heat of an argument or stressful situation (as do all parents!) but to seriously suggest something like this is another thing altogether!

Agree you need to have a serious talk with him - though you will have your work cut out if he really doesn't see anything wrong with what he said. How can he possibly think it's 'best all round' for a girl of her age to be thrown out of her home, separated from her mother, and packed off to live with someone she only has 'sporadic contact' with? Best for him, is what he means

Jeez! She's only 13. So sorry.

I am just so at this.

What does he think this is - a bit of spring cleaning? Out with the old and in with the new?

Sorry OP but you need to kick him in to touch. I feel so for your DD.

Hope you see sense and make the the three of you - as in you, DD and new DC.

Good luck x

I don't have anything to say that has not already been said. But what worries me is that he assumes that neither you nor dd would be upset by dd moving out. Does this man have no feelings?

I can only hope that once you have his baby he suddenly 'gets' that parental bond and realises what a twat he has been.

In the meantime I feel very sad for your dd.

My step father was like this. He used to bulky me behind my Mum's back and it was awful. He lectured me on how I was living under HIS roof, that Mum and I were int he gutter before he "pulled us out" (we weren't). I loathed living like that and spent as little time at home as possible.

Mum divorced him last year after 24 years and only now can see what he was like. My brother was born a year after Mum married my SF and SF tried hard to turn my brother against me. It didn't work, my FB and I are very close while my SF and db barely speak.