what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

HMC, the damage to the relationship was done when I was hit. I simply don't like them as much because I am always aware that they are the kind of people who hit children.
If I said that I had an ex boyfriend who hit me, and I still don't like him, people would call that a rational response.
I think I am terribly forgiving to spend any time with them at all, let alone letting them spend time with my kids. I think they are very lucky.

I only remember being "slapped" in the face quite often when older-not being "smacked" when I was younger, although with a temper like my mothers', I'm sure I did.

The slaps were never a deterrent-I was too proud-I'd just asked to get slapped again but harder!

I have mixed feeling about this whole subject-I just can't see a right or a wrong to it.

Wow, big debate here!!!

Just wanted to add my message that I totally disagree about the whole smacking neceassarily having sexual conotations with it.
Yes, its true, that the principle of 'smacking' has always been associated with 'bottoms',...I mean my dd gets a smacked bottom here and there, and Im sure many other kids her age do too. However, the reason i smack her on that part of her body, is becuase it is a soft, padded area, where little damage can be done, NOT becuase im sexually perverted!
I find it bizarre that anyone would make a link between sexuality and a mum smacking her childs tush, for disciplin.
I agree that here and there, unfortunately we will witness cases in which minorities of children are sexually harassed by adults, in inappropriate ways, but it is important that we differentiate (long word) abusive paretning, from godd parenting

as mnay people have already said how can I tell my chil that violence isn't an acceptable way of dealing with a situtaiotn if I smack him?

If someone in a meeting isnt paying attention to me I wouldn
t dream of 'lighlty slapping their hand' to get their attention. If I had 'broken' house rules and stopped out late at night without letting my husband know and when I came in he hit me that woudl be abuse. Why is it different bcause the human being I am dealing with is smaller and younger than me and has fewer communication skills?

To me hitting a child is like hitting someone with a learning disability - they don't have the same skills that adults do so you are failing them because you can't be bothered to find another way to deal with things.

I'm quite staggered by Pruni's message about the person who smacked their four year for holding an 18 month old's head under water. He left his small children unsupervised in water and then having placed his children in danger and totally neglected his resonsiblities towards them, his response was to use physical violence on his child. It's a world gone mad. In general terms, there is absolutely no instance or situation where smacking is warranted. People who smack their children need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Well I look long and hard every so often and still believe I am bringing up my children in a loving stable home with bounderies from yself and my husband and we use a mixture of Pasta jar, naughty step and occasionally a smack!!!

I'm just wondering what magnolia1 would do if her child was smacked by another child at school or in a play situation. Or even if her own child smacked another child. Clearly if it's acceptable at home, the child can only assume it's ok in other environments and situations.

sweetone, you haven't quite understood... the parent need not be sexually abusive or smacking the bottom in a perverted way - they could just be doing it in a normal way but the link could still happen for the child. this is because the bottom is a taboo and sexual area. some people have posted about how seeing other people getting smacked at school led to sexual excitement but that doesn't mean the teacher meant it that way. and no it doesn't happen every time. it is just one of the risks of smacking. one reason i am very worried about it is that i think my dad, who strongly associated smacking with sexual felings, was beaten a lot as a child (brought up by cruel nuns). so in his case it contributed to him becoming a pervert and paedophile. i think that's worth avoiding.

I respect where you are coming from Aloha, and the strength of your feelings.

However, my won view is that we all parent to the best of our abilities at the time and to suit the circumastnaces. We don't know what the long term consequences are going to be.

Who is to say a child won't be damaged/remember/resent those occasions where he/she was sent out to the naughty step/had attention withdrawn far more than any fleeting smack? They could feel just as upset about it as Aloha obviously still is about her own childhood experience of being hit. They may go on to harbour the same long term resentment - not about being hit, but about being "abandoned".

We don't know what our children will remember and how they will turn out in the long term - but we all try do our best for them (hence discussions like this on Mumsnet ) as we juggle the delicate task of nurturing the next generation of adults.

My mum used to smack me occasionally when I was naughty and did not affect my feelings for her. I love her and for me, she is the best mum in the world. I was never afraid of her and she is now my best friend. She did smack, but she was also fair, warm and loving.
My dad on the other hand, never smacked me but I was scared of him, as he was so unpredictable and used to do shout a lot. I was terrified of his outbursts although I new that he will never hit me. He always had a bad temper, never new when he will explode so I was trying to keep out of his way.
By the way, I also love my dad very dearly.

Granard, using me as an example is quite rude and talking about me as a 3rd person is also very rude. I have 4 children and only 1 of them has ever touched another child. And this was at a later date found to be retaliation and not general nastiness so I am obviously not turning my children into little thugs who bash other children as you would believe.

My children are aware that there is a difference between Adults and children and that there are various things they may see or know that an adult does which does not mean they can also do it.

Are you actually insinuating that if I drink a glass of wine in front of my children they will think it's ok for them?? Just becuse a child sees an adult doing something they do not automatically think they can do it too!!

Again I have taken a good hard look at myself as you say I should do and I still believe I am a good mother and to be honest a stranger on a chat forum isn't really going to make me feel less than that

If my child was smacked by another child and he came home to tell me about it, I would smack him for not standing up for himself and smacking back!
I would send him back to assert himself! karate kid syle (wax on, wax off)

HE HE HE.

I wished my dad smacked me. And i preferred it when my mum did. she used to say some stuff about crime and punishment first which was well recieved. So I have done something wrong and i am being punished. There was the odd day when i felt mummy is smacking me because she is angry and i was right. It was the speeches that began with 'I am very disappointed in you..' that hurt the most.

My dad would just say 'when I get back, i am going to inflict that punishment on you that you dread.', give me a menancing look and go out for goodness knows how long nad leave me sweating nad imagining the worst tom and jerry scenes i could think of. Then he would return and get on with his life while I lived in fear of an uncertain certain punishment. when he finally sees that i am getting over and beginning to hope he has forgotten, he would turn to me and say 'I haven't forgotten. I'll deal with you tomorrow'. twas terrifying. Please clobber me dad.
Now I think THAT is abuse. I was smacked a few times but flogged many times as a kid but it's my dads system that i really hated. I felt the flogging from teachers was usually excessive but it didnt bother me. We eventually started betting before hand on how many strokes we could recieve without flinching. I have ended up with some good skin from those days. I wouldnt smack in a hurry but i am geniunely indifferent to it.

Just choose your words carefully as a parent if you choose to scold.

good thick skin.

Are you actually insinuating that if I drink a glass of wine in front of my children they will think it's ok for them?? Just becuse a child sees an adult doing something they do not automatically think they can do it too!!

drinking a glas of wine is different, you can say - everyone drinks different things at different times. Your baby sister drinks baby milk, you drink juice and I sometimes drink wine. How you equate that with violence is quite another matter, what do you say? i hit you when I disagree with you/ when you annoy me/ when I think you are being naughty/ when you put yourself in danger? but you can't hit other people and daddy can't hit mummy?

Risking flames I'd like to ask those who do hit their children how does it feel hitting someone smaller and yougner than you who is too afraid to hit you back or tell anyone about it?

Sorry, don't have time to read the whole thread, so may be repeating, but the main reasons I don't use smacking are:

1. It doesn't work.
2. I don't want my children to turn into bullies.
3. I don't want to really lose it and smack them too hard.
4. I want my children to respect me.

All

Friday I was in local town centre in Sainsbury's and my 20 month old DS threw his muslin/cuddly. I had warned him that if he did it once more it was going to go under the pram. Well, he did, so I confiscated it.

He threw a screaming fit and a lady in her 70's very loudly at the next till remarked "What he needs is a smacked bottom". I am 33 weeks' pregnant and quite hormonal and I was not going to allow her to question my parenting skills in public, without a response. So, I addressed her across the tills (not in an aggressive way, but firmly) and I said, "My son is 20 months old and I will would NOT hit him as he would not hit him. He is NOT 4 years old". With that she started to address my son and I put my ample figure in front of the pram and told her to MIND HER OWN BUSINESS!!!!

I felt really violated and pi**ed off that someone who knows nothing about me and DS or the situation that led to him screaming should pass comment so rudely and loudly.

What would you have done? Why is it that from the moment we're pregnant, the man/woman in the street feels empowered to comment and even TOUCH?

Flumpette

I should add that I was smacked as a child which I'm not criticising but my DS hits his daddy in the face when angry and frustrated and he hasn't seen this or had it done to him. How could we possibly reciprocate? The message would be wrong and he would think it acceptable to hit out like he does. I don't know what I'd do in the future when he is older and able to understand but at this stage I don't see that it would help any situation and don't think I'll be going down that route.

Maybe an exception would be if he did something really dangerous such as run into the road when he knows it's forbidden?

Flumpette

Read thread with interest and determined not to comment due to the sensitive subject matter but found this one comment so disillusioned and, frankly, unbelievable, that I have to.

QUOTE: "....the children don't conclude that Mummy doesn't love them. It's more along the lines of, 'I know that Mummy adores me, and yet now she's really cross with me. Mummy would never want to hit me, so something must be going wrong here... Mummy's love is constant so maybe it's something that I am doing?'"

Do our children rationalise in this way? Maybe those who believe this have genius children or, more probable, are in self denial mode. Most of the time even adults can't be that detached, non emotive and rational!

On the whole contemporary psychology/ psychotherapy/psychoanalysis etc and numerous studies conclude that any discipline based on fear/humiliation(and please, let's not discuss the 'meaning of words' here),negative behaviour et al, is not as effecitve as discipline based on positive behaviour, praise, mutual respect and all that naturally comes with that as the relationship grows.

Smacking/hitting/abuse - whatever you call it - also which i've seen here described as a 'tickle'(!!!), amongst other things, instils fear and resentment and teaches that if things aren't going the way you want them to, you are bigger, you are the one who should be in control, then you can use physical force as a tool to make your point and get the result you want.

There are better ways to teach right from wrong, good manners, respect for yourself and others etc. Praise is a good easy way to do this. Unwanted behaviour, wherever possible should just be ignored. Children very quickly get the message. All children want is recognition and attention. They'd prefer positive attention but negative will do. This is why ignoring is so effective. Explanation also helps. Imagine your child is like an alien just landed. they don't know what's what here in this strange place.

I'm not judging, I'm not perfect - far from it, but i try to make sure i always behave in the best possible way towards others and myself. Physical force in no way fits into this. It is illegal in our society to use physical force against anyone or anything unless you are in fear of your safety or life. That applies to humans and animals alike - but not to children. The thought of smacking my daughter seems alien to me and I have to say, repulsive. I can't imagine how you then go about your business as if nothing's happened. I hope i will always feel this way and never 'lose it' to the point where i scare her physically or mentally. I'd take the itme out or sit on the naughty step myself to calm down!!

And to finish (sorry it's soooo long but once i started i couldn't stop ) one of the parents out there asked how do i stop? JUST STOP. it's that easy. you'll have a couple of mad weeks during which your child/ren won't know what's going on but hopefully they'll soon forget all about physical punishment and move on with you.

wow. agree with every word you have written. great post.

i absolutely agree with mammamic. the thought of smacking dd fills me with horror. I HAVE lost it in front of her but there must be a button in me somewhere that stops me before i would hit her, it isn't even part of my instinctive drive iykwim, i don't even have to tell myself NO. The worst i did was scream and shout & stamp my feet and slam into my room once, and i have never forgotten it(the look of terror on dd's face made sure of that) and rarely go near even doing anything like that. firm, calm discipline a la supernanny has worked wonders 4 us