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Original poster

what are the reasons for NO smacking?

695 replies

hermykne · 17/11/2005 13:27

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

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dizietsma · 20/11/2005 03:04

Having scanned over some of this thread, being a student of Philosphy, I have to point out that the following argument is a logical fallacy -

If you punish children with physical violence then there will be a low crime rate

Zimbabwe has a low crime rate

This is because they punish children with physical violence

Specifically this is a en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent .

bloss · 20/11/2005 05:23

Message withdrawn

Mud · 20/11/2005 08:09

well said bloss

dizietsma - waht total baloney. zimababwe has far gerater probelms and their form of child punichsment is no doubt different

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soapbox · 20/11/2005 09:29

Mud - she is saying that the statement is a logical fallacy - i.e. it is not logically correct. So you are actually agreeing with her, if I read you right!

Mud · 20/11/2005 09:42

am I? ma confused

zenia · 20/11/2005 15:06

I will smack my children on the bottom, as a last resort, sometimes it is the only way to get them to stop and think about what they have done wrong and get them to even realise I am there. My dh has smacked our children before and has such a big hand to their tiny bottoms that he has hurt their legs and marked them (for a short time) so we had a huge fight about it and he apologised (he never meant to hurt them) and now he never smacks and he is very against it, he will tell me off sometimes even though my smacks are more of a tickle.

dizietsma · 20/11/2005 15:24

Mud, I agree with you. I was pointing out that HRHQoQ's rationale that the usage of corporal punishment in Zimbabwe being the reason the crime rate was low was an illogical argument- i.e. it seems like one causes the other but it doesn't. Don't worry, logical argument has a habit of confusing people!

twirlaround · 20/11/2005 16:54

Bloss - do you find it reasonable when other adults humiliate you when you have done something wrong?

No punishment to children should be humiliating as this is incompatible with treating others with dignity. This is illustrated by the difference between keeping prisoners of war in prison - a punishment - and in stripping them naked and making them pretend to be a dog and taking photos - humiliating them.

Sitting naked on the naughty step whilst being taunted would be humiliating...just sitting on the naughty step is not.

Twiglett · 20/11/2005 17:02

is it really NOT humiliating for a child to be made to sit somewhere that it doesn't want to?

seriously interested in the thought process here .. although humiliation is a strongly emotive word that I really believe can only be experienced by a sentient adult .. I think the feeling we evoke in our children when we behaviour-modify probably goes somewhere close to this .. it is definately frustration / annoyance / irritation / acceptance (possibly humiliation)

CarolinaMoon · 20/11/2005 17:20

Mud, your typing seems to have gone awry

think you are right Twiglett - any kind of reprimand has some element of humiliation for a child I spose. It's not something for them to be proud of is it?

My mum rarely smacked us, and when she did, it always felt like we'd pushed her to the utter limit and we'd stop what we were doing I think because we were scared of what might lie beyond that limit iyswim. We kind of reigned the situation in ourselves once she'd given us that signal. It was very different from general tellings-off, where it felt like she was in control. I think that's the worrying thing about smacking - it's crossing that line.

Pre-planned corporal punishment is a bit odd IMHO - who could hit a child in cold blood? (I know, I know, several people on this thread...)

Tortington · 20/11/2005 17:32

if i was sent to prison i would be humiliated - if i was stripped naked and photographed i would be further humiliated.

if i had made a mistake at work and my boss shouted at me in front of other people, i would feel humiliated, if he shouted at me in his office i would still feel humiliated.

punishments by virtue of their nature - IMO are humiliating.

Tortington · 20/11/2005 17:32

if i was sent to prison i would be humiliated - if i was stripped naked and photographed i would be further humiliated.

if i had made a mistake at work and my boss shouted at me in front of other people, i would feel humiliated, if he shouted at me in his office i would still feel humiliated.

punishments by virtue of their nature - IMO are humiliating.

magnolia1 · 20/11/2005 17:54

Carolinamoon!!! What a load of tosh, you really see the pro smacking mums on here as cold blooded and smacking as corporal punishment Not the way of everyone but certainly not as vicious as you seem to think!

CarolinaMoon · 20/11/2005 17:59

how is smacking not corporal punishment? It's administered on the child's body isn't it?

DP used to get smacked by his dad (and belted once) when his dad got back from work - the classic "wait til your father gets home" scenario. He didn't really appreciate it.

helsi · 20/11/2005 18:01

Children are not meant to appreciate being smacked as they are not meant to appreciate or enjoy a naughty step or being sent to their room.

CarolinaMoon · 20/11/2005 18:04

ok, it was understatement. I know that doesn't work well in writing. He is really pretty about it. His dad was full-on beaten up by his own father on a regular basis (they all were, and their mum didn't try to stop it) so DP feels he got off comparatively lightly .

helsi · 20/11/2005 18:11

I am not one for inflicting pain on children at all and believe there are other ways and means of doing it...BUT...I can also appreciate the views of people now and a generation ago who believe it works.
Looking around society today there are more wayward chldren and adolescents and that is because bans are put on parents not to do things but no alternatives are given on how to get the same desired effect.
I am really annoyed with how things are today and I do worry about the future with how some children and young people are today. Rude, obnoxious, impolite, cheeky, trouble causes, violent etc... naughty steps do not work with teenagers so how do adults try to discipline them when hands are so tied these days?

ruty · 20/11/2005 18:15

i remember my mum banging me on the head with a saucepan because i was answering her back. I was about 8. I felt she hated me. I will never hit my child, the thought sickens me.

CarolinaMoon · 20/11/2005 18:22

isn't it because some parents are too keen to be mates with their kids rather than authority figures? They just don't set or keep to boundaries and don't encourage their kids to take responsibility for themselves or others.

I really don't think it's because they don't hit their kids enough.

zippitippitoes · 20/11/2005 18:23

I blame Margaret Thatcher

helsi · 20/11/2005 18:25

its always easier to blame others.

Blandmum · 20/11/2005 18:29

I teach far too many kids who's parents don't set boundaries. this becomes obvious within about 5 minutes of them entering the classroom (NT not SEN BTW)

The are rude, disruptive and seem to have the misaprehension that they are in some way my equals in the classroom.

While I am polite to them they are not adults, and not the teacher, don't call the shots and to get on they need to learn this basic fact asap

helsi · 20/11/2005 18:31

I agree MB but boundries and limits have been placed on teachers too now haven't they which makes matters worse.

I find nothing more annoying than a cheeky child who turns round and says "you can't touch me"...

FairyMum · 20/11/2005 18:39

Do you really think children are rude, impolite and troublesome because they are not smacked enough? That argument doesn't make sense to me at all. I have never smacked my children and they are perfectly well behaved. I want my children to behave well, be polite and kind because that's the way they have been treated by their parents. I don't want them just to be able to do as they are told and fear a smack. Smacking a child, I think, takes away some of the responsibility of the child to understand their own behaviour and the impact they have on other people around them.
Not smacking a child is not the same as wanting to be "matey" or setting no boundaries.
I also think it's important for children to sometimes be allowed to be really angry and misbehave. If they have had a tiring day in nursery and behaved well all day, why should they not be allowed to come home and throw dinosaurs on me or pick a fight with me sometimes? My children are allowed to run riot a bit at home. It's a safe environment where they are loved unconditionally and they know it and sometimes take advantage of it. They are always well-behaved outside the home. I do think children who come from very authoritarian homes when the fear of a samck is always there, are actually much more likely to act up outside the home.

ruty · 20/11/2005 18:52

i agree with fairymum.

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