what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

qoq I am surprised at you. essentially you are arguing that zimbabwe has corporal punishment, but lower crime figures, therefore corporal punishment is good. is that correct?

a)Comparisons of crime figures between countries is problematic because of the way different countries count the figures and because different attitudes affect which crimes are reported.

b) corporal punishment is not the only difference between zimbabwe and the uk.

c)the causes of crime are complex.

...etc.

on the main topic, I think there are much better ways of disciplining children and that violence does beget violence in one way or another.

Soapbox - I know what I experienced living there for an exteneded period of time, and that was a much safer country to live in.

Anyhow I'm off now - my inability to write decent English is meaning that my posts are coming out all wrong and you're now getting completely the wrong end of the stick of what I'm trying to say (bet even that doesn't make sense does it).

To summarize

I use smacking as a small part of my discipling/punishment for my children

Others don't want to smack at all

I think the removal of corporal punishment from schools has been a contributing factor in the general decline of young people's behaviour.

I loved living in Zimbabwe and felt safer there than here

and I'm too thick to write posts that people undestand.

Is there anyway we can set up a poll on this to see the difference in numbers between how many are for smacking and how many against?
That I would like to see and maybe it might set minds (and this thread) to rest.

We all have our own styles of parenting and my dd is only 6months old so haven't reached the discipline stage yet. Can I ask tho, those pro-smackers: at what age do you think smacking is acceptable? What age did you start?

HQQ I grew up in Australia and when we were naughty in school
the boys were given the cane across the backside
the girls got the meter ruler slapped on their hands. (experienced a couple of them)

I remember there was only one lad in whole school who would get it every week or so out of around 300 pupils.
the rest of us were too scared to act up in school coz we knew what we would get.

Not saying corporal punishment is right or wrong but there wasnt the trouble in our school like there is nowadays.

I went to school in Canada and Australia in '68 (yes I know, I'm old!) and rememeber feeling a sort of mix of fear, horror, anger, excitement, confusion and guilty relief it wasn't me every time a kid got called to the office. I was a sensitive child, but so are many others - all I know is I was deeply and negatively affected by being in that environment. For me, it created fear and shame. Looking back, it was creepy - done behind closed doors, but everyone knew someone was being hit, and I'll never forget the humiliated tears of one boy coming out of the Head's office in Perth. I jumped every time a teacher got angry, in those schools. And it WAS always the same children (usually boys) who got caned - didn't seem to work well for them at all. Just my experience, to add to others'.

two doctors (Christians) put forward their arguments for and against here

oh what "general decline in young people's behaviour"?

if we're talking stats, look here and here

yes, there are more violent crimes now than in 1986, but the trend is downward.

Do you really think children who are not smacked are the worst behaved children? No, I think the children who are wacked around the ear every time they do something naughty and whose parents put little effort into parenting who end up running riot and behaving badly at school and elsewhere.

And how peculiar to use Zimbabwe as your model country. I have a friend who is actually married to someone from Zimbabwe. He beats her blue and yellow and once broke her nose. He went to boarding school in Zimbabwe nd was physically, emotionally and sexually abused. Damaged him and now he is damaging my friend and their son who is of course also beaten. Never mind walking down the road and feeling safe.....

I am chillled by the thought of a parent smacking their child for refusing to get dressed. A two year old.
I tell you now, keep hitting that child and it will get immune to your hitting. Children have their own minds, they need to test boundaries and assert their independence. If you are trying to control them by fear of your physical violence then they eventually lose that fear & continue to defie you anyway.
We were hit at school and the cane was outlawed when I was at senior school but we were still hit with other things. Those who were going to be naughty or disobediant still were.
My parents loved me - didn't make being hit feel any better. My mother often used very controlled methods: she would tell me that when I got home she would hit me for every transgression of the rules. I would wait all afternoon and then when we got home, she did hit me. Ah the great feeling of contolled smacking. How good I felt about myself. I learnt not to cry or fear the smacks, so the pain had to increase. Didn't ever make me not do something. Just made me devious and a good liar, so as not to get caught. Wasn't that keen on being hit with the end of rope.
I just cannot understand why anyone would want to do it. It is such an inadequate way of sending a message to a small child.

UCM please, please stop hitting your baby. You can see it isn't working. Find another way. Get up earlier. Make a joke. He's very, very small and you are much bigger and stronger. I refuse to believe you cannot get a very little child dressed without hitting him. Poor little mite.

Funnily enough had never thought of the sexual side to smacking, yet (just to horrify all of you)as an adult I find the S&M thing hugely erotic. Nothing like a good spanking to get me going - bizarre coincidence or not perhaps?
Maybe worth thinking about.

Reading this in the cold light of day does indeed sound awful. I feel quite guilty now. I will try some other methods. Sometimes it's hard when you are trying to get out of the door to go to work and DS won't play ball. But it is wrong to smack him, I know it. I think someone here mentioned that the smack is for me not for the child. They are probably right.

But ucn do not spend the rest of your day, night, weekend, week etc... feeling sad and guilty about it please.

It's very easy for people here to sit in judgement and make you feel like Crap

No one doubts that you love your little one and although there are aother ways to deal with situations we are not all the same and we all deal with things in the way we see fit at that moment in time

To be honest I don't know how we manage to all get dressed some mornings, I know how tricky it is to get a 2 year old dressed although I have not smacked her I have wrestled her into her clothes

Sorry meant to say UCM

Trying to catch up but too much to read! QofQ - do you not think that the good behaviour you saw in schools in Zimbabwe was maybe a result of something other than the threat of a caning? (Sorry if this has already been asked) Also you state that some children were in the headmasters office very frequently - obviously being beaten wasn't working at all to keep them well behaved.

Crime rate in East Germany was incredibly low. It was safe to walk around the streets at 3 in the morning.

Repression and total state control works. Doesn't mean it's great though.

dizietsma, i didn't want to revive this thread but those lyrics are so sad
True too!

UCM, as magnolia1 said please don't worry about what has already happened, but I'm so glad you've realised there are other ways.

Although I am strongly anti-smacking now, and this thread has actually crystallised my thoughts on it, I have in the past hit ds1. I did it once when I was very angry and realised then that when you are very angry, be it with adults or children, the best thing is do say and do nothing. I have found that you are bound to regret whatever you say or do in anger.

QofQ - My husband works in an independent school in the UK. On the whole the pupils are well behaved, polite, friendly and continue to call my husband 'sir' long after they have graduated University and they meet him randomly in town. These children did not have to be hit with canes to 'teach' them to act this way.

Now that I think of it, I have a friend who works in an inner city state school and I have witnessed pupils saying "hello Miss" to her when encountered around the city out of school hours.

I would not support the return of corporal punishment in schools. It would most likely cause an increase in assaults on teachers. Have you seen the size of 14 year old boys these days?!

Ooooo Hermykne. Three more posts and this thread reaches 600...

Do you feel you've had the feedback you were looking for?

Have just finnished reading this thread.

I do smack, but wish I didn't. I want to know how you change to not smacking though ???? I know it should be easy but it's not.

Don't get me wrong, I don't smack alot, it's a last resort thing, and yes usually when i'm pushed to the limit and can't think what else to do.

Plus, dp smacks and doesn't think it is wrong. We have argued over this many a time as I think he smacks for trivial things.

How do I change it around.

I know it doesn't work.
On the bus the other day Ds (3) kept standing up and climbing all over the seat. I kept telling him to sit down, but he wouldn't, he just ignored me and carried on. I said 'stop it or you will get a smack', and he said ' go on then smack me'. I was gobsmacked, and then he said it again.

I have tried naughty step/corner but he won't stay on it. I have tried confiscating toys but they don't seem to care.

Howtochange, I am a pro smacker - as you have read. However I haven't smacked for a long time, as there has been no need, I think it has been an age thing for me. But I wouldn't have smacked for the reasons you have given tbh. I usually bribe Or try to distract My kids haven't been smacked since they were about 5 (and 4 for the younger one)

You and your dh have to be consistant, and I have found the step works now. It takes real effort, commitment and time for the first few weeks, but does pay off. Never EVER say you will do something- smack/step etc - if ou are not going to follow through. That's why your child said what they did. They knew you wouldn't or were testing you.

Yes i see what you mean. I am not consistent enough and don't follow through enough with punsihments either, mainly because I tend to have no faith in myself i think.

The example I gave actually wasn't a time when I would smack. Infact that is probably worse, cos I just used it as a threat. I didn't even intend to smack him anyway.

Am trying to think of instances where I have smacked now. I have smacked Ds if he runs off and doesn't come back after several warnings. Dd1 rarely gets smacked now as she is older and the threat of toy/tv confiscation usually works.

Dd2 rarely gets smacked either now because she couldn't give a toss wether you smack her or not tbh. I can't find anything that she does give a toss about.