Has anyone read, 'Raising boys'? Shocked when i saw it!

[threecurrantbuns]

I walked by this book the other day and had to double take, didnt seem pc to me but after saying so to another mum she talked as if its a well known book.

I have two dds a one ds (my youngest) so maybe thats why ive never come across it until now.

I was shocked at first, thinking surely we should parent our children the same way whether they are boys or girls!??

But now im wondering whether to take a peek at it, i have become curious, i didnt grow up around boys, just had sisters, maybe there is something im missing!?

The answer is for OP to come back in 10yrs with an update!

I've read it and found it really interesting, particularly as a mother of two boys who had no brothers and so no close experience of boys growing up.

Boys do learn and develop differently from girls. My DSs go to an all boys school which is very aware of this and focuses on methods of teaching which work for boys. Its seems to be working very successfully.

It would do virgil-all the course work idea suits girls more than boys. It is a shame when people just say-they are the same-they are not.

Ive never assumed my dds will be the same purely because they are girls, ive just always assumed i would treat/parent each of my children as individuals and not as 'boys' or 'girls'!

FWIW, my two dds are completely different one stereotypically 'girly' the other the complete opposite.

My original post must have been somewhat misleading to some, as i was curious about the book as i always assumed i would parent my children as individuals with different individual needs, not parent them based on their sex alone, although im am aware that in some cases there will be differences due to sex and hormones etc

There is very little scientific evidence of gender difference, really. You are seeing what you want to see, you are framing behaviour in a certain way.

Everyone learns in the same way. It is the same process. The rest is conditioning.

I don't need research, I was brought up in a largely male household, with a mother who had been very much a 'tom boy' -I wasn't going to pretend I was something I wasn't because my mother thought girls shouldn't do the girlish things of girlish fallings out with friends etc. I loved playing with dolls, sewing clothes forthem and knitting.My brothers did not.
I have watched my DSs and friend's DSs and DD's. They are ,in general very different.If it was down to me, as a single mother and conditioning I would have a DS who wasn't in the least 'boyish', instead of which I have one who knew every make of car at 2 yrs, despite the handicap of me having to read them off from the cars.
If there is no gender difference why are people bothered about the gender of their baby?
Your last post makes more sense threecurrantbuns-you do have to parent every DC differently- but I predict that, if you are not used to boys, you will find that they do think very differently and act very differently.
The wrestling on the floor isn't conditioning most girls wouldn'twant to do it, at least not constantly. (of course not all boys do)

How many DCs do you have NormanTebbit and which sex?

Hmm. If it is indeed true that little difference between men and women other than our genitalia and hormones, and the rest is down to conditioning (as NT said) then could someone explain why, from the dawn of time, we have been indulging in this supposed conditioning? Across all societies, all races, all tribes, all cultures, no matter how remote or where in the world they are? Why, as a species, would we choose to artificially condition one gender to behave one way and the other gender to behave another way, if neurologically and to some extent biologically we were all designed to behave in a gender-neutral way?

I mean, pretty much all societies including those who have had no little or no contact/influence from other more dominant cultures tend, upon scrutiny, to have built their gender expectations around roughly the same formula.

The couple who are raising the 'gender free' DC in Canada are going to find it failed. They are already having problems with the older child. Young DDs too young to have been conditioned have already felt uncomfortable playing with the, in their words, 'boy -girl'. Young as they are they have picked up that the DC trying to join them is different. This wouldn't matter if it the boy is very girlish or even wearing a dress-they know. These things a very subtle.

I would say that I was brought up the same as my brothers, no distinctions were made. My education was just as important, if I did housework they did the same amount and my mother even tried to get me to wear my brother's hand me downs on the lines that girls wear shorts and Tshirts (refused by me). I was a 'girly' girl and although I got on well with my brothers and we all played together, we were very different.

It is very unfair on boys to deny there is a difference and try to get them to behave in alien ways. Better to realise what'makes them tick' and work with it. (recognising they are all different-at the same time).

If there was no gender difference, and it was all conditioning, parents wouldn't care what sex they got-they could just condition it they way they wanted!

I would still love to know Norman Tebbit's personal experience-speaking as someone with two brothers and no sisters, 5 male cousins and 3 female cousins, 4 nephews and one niece. Not to mention hoards of DCs who I have seen from babyhood to teenage and beyond (some with parents who thought the same as NormanTebbit) and heavy involvement with the Guide movement (Brownie leader)and then the Scouts (Cub leader).

There is a difference and I think it is great that someone is 'on the side' of boys.

The wrestling test is enough for me, little girls don't constantly wrestle for fun! The pirate party would be another test. I am talking in general.

Sorry-I missed out on my 3 DSs.

It's on my shelf to read ASAP - I have a summer of reading ahead of me.

BoughtItBecauseMenAndWomenDOThinkAndActDifferentlyUnderTheSameSetOfCircumstancesTiggaxx

I wish it was around when mine were young. I can't see that it does them any favours to expect them to have no differences to girls.

Just as an aside-does anyone want to marry a man with no gender differences apart from the physical? Although I moan sometimes about not being understood I like being the only female in the house and don't wish DH was 'more like a woman'-even though I am lucky that he lived on his own for years and can iron better than me, sew on buttons, cook etc. -he is different! The DCs benefit from having a male and female perspective.

I haven't read the thread, but have read the OP.

I think you're being very naive if you thing that boys and girls don't need to be approached differently.

Of course you should treat your children with the same respect and attention regardless fo attention, and parent them equally, but parenting boys and girls equally and parenting them the same way are two different things.

We should all be treated equally (i.e.) fairly, but to try to insist that they should be raised in the same way when they are very different and have different needs is disingenuous. They need a different approach, and as long as this approach doesn't involve favouring a boy over a girl or vice versa, then it's fine.

Boys and girls, and then men and women ARE DIFFERENT. They are built differently, wired differently, and it's vital to acknowledge this for fear of making either of them feel that they can't express their true selves as they might be viewed as too masculine or too feminine.

but norman, the book does NOT say boys are tough.

that is an assumption.

many parents of boys will confirm that, on the contrary, little boys are quite vulnerable and at primary age, girls often seem more confident.

There ARE differences between boys and girls, but NOT the ones some people think (ie glittery princess vs tough warrior), but rather that boys may need a bit more help in the early years at school, as they do not mature as fast as girls (girls are often a year ahead in literacy at around age 6-7).

Saying there are differences between boys and girls does NOT automatically mean encouraging stereotypes.

Boys are definitely not tough-one good reason to read the book if you believe that stereotype.

There were some interesting reviews.

Such as:

Readers may like to know that Steve Biddulph's books are hugely popular where we come from back in Australia - used in almost one in four family homes, according to one newspaper - precisely because they are the opposite of the past reviewers opinion - they are accessible, funny, very practical, and down to earth, and seem to be written from the heart. Biddulph has been around in Australia for about 20 years, and was brave enough to question the dogma about children being born genderless, and back this up with good science.
As a feminist, I find his book perfect because it helps me ACHIEVE those goals of raising my boy to be a great human being, but also to understand that he is not like me.

The three stages of boyhood are far from obvious, and I haven't seen them written elsewhere. But when you have a boy, you can see them at work and its a great help.

If you are not used to boys it can be a great help-if only to show that physical energy is normal and can be channelled.
I like the whole title
Raising Boys:Why Boys are Different - and How to Help Them Become Happy and Well-Balanced Men.

i agree with that completely chandon. I think many people leap to the wrong conclusion about what the argument is in discussions like these.

Yes I was using a 'boys are tough' stereotype to make a point - that this is a construction and there are many more...

Also the point about different cultures - actually gender is constructed very differently in tribes across the world - one of the arguments against gender traits being innate.

Also there are more differences between people than between genders. I could share more personality traits with a man than a woman.

I think the Biddulph book gives a certain view of how to raise boys in a culturally specific way - and there is nothing wrong with that. But in the end we are ^all complex individuals.

By the way I'm talking about research I've read I don't think it matters how many or what sort of children I have.

So you don't have boys Norman?

Parenting books aren't compulsory text books you have to buy when you give birth - just like the kids we bring up, everyone is different so if they're not for you, don't buy them, but don't judge others for reading them either.

No I have three girls.

I don't know why it's so hard to accept that we are wired in such similar ways that it is virtually impossible to tell sexes apart at birth. As we grow male and female brains differentiate but only due to hormones and conditioning.

You could probably take Raising Boys and use it as a guide to raising girls with the same success.

By the way I'm not judging anyone for reading this book just pointing out that the idea that 'boys and girls are wired differently' is the subject of much debate - the jury is out on this one but everyone agrees that conditioning is key to producing gendered children.

Which is a good thing, your child is an individual with strengths and weaknesses which are not dictated by their sex.

I knew it!!!

I also assume that you have not been both a Brownie leader and a Cub leader? I have been both and they are very very different.

Cub meetings have to be planned without a spare moment. You can't leave them to wait at at the start while you speak to parents-you sort them out with a physical game until you are ready-or you do if you want to keep your sanity! If you just leave them they will fight, in a friendly way and they will love it! You need an activity for Brownies but if they have to wait they will chat or twirl around a bit or try some cartwheels.

If you do an activity, Cubs need to be given something when they finish, girls can cope with waiting, helping or just watching.

Of course, some girls like the boys things and choose cubs-there are many girls who would be irritated to death by cubs.

The Scout and Guide movement realise that girls mature more quickly which is why Rainbows are 5 yrs and Beavers 6 yrs.

My jury is not out-I know-I live with boys and have all my life-they are different and we do them no favours to think they are the same.

You can try bringing up a girl to be more like a boy, and you will succeed if they like the traditional type boy things. If they are like me, in floods of tears at the suggestion of wearing my brother's castoffs and loving my dolls and wouldn't goto Cubs if you paid me,you won't succeed. Trying to get a boy not to be boylike, and telling them off for boylike behaviour won't get you a very good relationship!

Immaculada- thanks for the links to those threads. I hadn't seen them, and they are really interesting.